Ygrain Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Sure, Aegon's age at death is one year, and it is an SSM. Curiously, the person claimed that the information is NOT in the SSMs. Don't you happen to know which SSM it is, so that we could slay this, eh, misconception? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 @MtnLion: I found it! http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Month/1999/09At the time of the Sack, Aegon Targaryen was, "Still a babe at the breast. A year old, give or take a turn or two." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 @MtnLion: I found it! http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Month/1999/09 At the time of the Sack, Aegon Targaryen was, "Still a babe at the breast. A year old, give or take a turn or two." There you have it. Absolutely impossible for the character we know as Jon Snow to be the real Aegon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Well, I'm still waiting for the poster's response :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Daeron did dream of the dragons returning. We shall see what Egg dreamt or not :-)You know, I always assumed that Aemon was referring to Daeron when he referenced his (singular) brother's dream in that Sam chapter. You've reminded me though, that in the previous chapter he said I see them in my dreams, Sam. I see a red star bleeding in the sky. I still remember red. I see their shadows on the snow, hear the crack of leathern wings, feel their hot breath. My brothers dreamed of dragons too, and their dreams killed them, every one. All of the Targaryen brothers had the dreams, and Aemon attributes his brothers' deaths directly to them. Aerion should be obvious, and I'd guess in Aemon's mind Daeron's alcoholism was related to the dreams and led to his death. But according to this statement Aegon had them too, and it must have been his dreams that led to whatever happened at Summerhall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bushido Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 The dreams Aemon's brothers had (Egg and Aerion) don't have to be prophetic, supernatural - it could easily be a metaphor for obsession, that unattainable dream, never fulfilled - Aerion drank wildfire! Egg and Summerhall! (speculation) The ambition got the best of them,the desire to have the power that having dragons can provide. Daeron's dreams are a different matter although, and even Aegon stresses that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 The dreams Aemon's brothers had (Egg and Aerion) don't have to be prophetic, supernatural - it could easily be a metaphor for obsession, that unattainable dream, never fulfilled - Aerion drank wildfire! Egg and Summerhall! (speculation) The ambition got the best of them,the desire to have the power that having dragons can provide. Daeron's dreams are a different matter although, and even Aegon stresses that. I don't know. Aemon seemed to be pretty clearly referencing actual dreams about dragons. And the POV we get regarding Aegon and Daeron's dreams are from when he was eleven years old. Maybe the dreams start during puberty? In any case, I don't think we can judge Aegon's future from that single reference in THK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 For reasonable people, yes. ;) Thats entirely unfair (never mind that 'reasonable' is not a suitable adjective for the poster's argument anyway). Information in the app is a secondary source and not a primary source. It has been compiled by smart people, who understand the primary sources well. So its as good as it can be made, based on the primary sources. It has been 'checked' by GRRM - but thats only going to catch major blues - no way has he spent enough time on it to crosscheck every minor detail, not to mention that he himself claims not to be great at all those minor details, like eye colours. And this, while important for this particular discussion, in a very minor detail. The app is not a primary source, not 100% reliable, and not a fit tool for settling points of difference. It is a great tool for checking things though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 What exactly is objectionable about said app.? Martin and aSoIaF are a "Brand." Everything he creates and writes is a part of that. If there was something about this app. that devalued, or called into question the integrity of his intellectual property, then he is be free to disavow it. It's trickier with the show, because he did sign off on it, so now he's somewhat stuck other than to make comments like, "well, I might not have done it that way....," etc. But, with this app., he could say at anytime that it is compromised, but I am unaware that he has. And besides, he is speaking largely to past events where he really does need, after almost twenty years, to start putting certain things to rest, yet is still cagey about current characters like Jon and Aegon, but answers nondescripts like Darkstars actual age and the fact that Brandon got around. I will say though, that one really didn't need the app. to know that DS and Arianne were.... :leer: . And if one is going to start picking apart the Author himself, then one is likely to never accept his answers when he does come clean about events, especially if it happens to debunk passionately held theories. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia of the knife Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 You took the words right out of my mind ;) Btw, tangential to our discussion, some interesting updates from Capclave 2013. I'm referring to Rhaenyra's stillborn dragon baby. At this point the magical quality to Targaryen blood is set in... stone lol Our speculations about the 'deflagration' triggered by dragon blood merging with the - likewise - magic blood of the First Men take a whole new meaning. Crackpot alert: I wondered if that had to do with blood magic, or if in reality it is the true form of a true dragon, at least momentarily? I wonder if we're not getting a physical glimpse of the metaphysical, even for a moment, and also wonder if that's not how Jon looked at birth given all the "unearthly" imagery of the Targaryens? We see it suggested in works like "Beowulf," and if the Starks have the ability to warg, what exactly is their true nature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Stargaryen Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Thats entirely unfair (never mind that 'reasonable' is not a suitable adjective for the poster's argument anyway). Information in the app is a secondary source and not a primary source. It has been compiled by smart people, who understand the primary sources well. So its as good as it can be made, based on the primary sources. It has been 'checked' by GRRM - but thats only going to catch major blues - no way has he spent enough time on it to crosscheck every minor detail, not to mention that he himself claims not to be great at all those minor details, like eye colours. And this, while important for this particular discussion, in a very minor detail. The app is not a primary source, not 100% reliable, and not a fit tool for settling points of difference. It is a great tool for checking things though. Right. The implication is that I'm not sure this individual is (willing to be) completely reasonable, based on his arguments. As it concerns the app, I'm familiar with your position. Yet here I am, using my own judgement on the matter. Weird, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Right. The implication is that I'm not sure this individual is (willing to be) completely reasonable, based on his arguments. As it concerns the app, I'm familiar with your position. Yet here I am, using my own judgement on the matter. Weird, right? And, since I fished the SSM that MtnLion mentioned, the app is confirmed as right in this particular aspect. Curiously, the poster in question never replied nor turned up for the discussion here :dunno: :stunned: :shocked: :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 What is exactly objectionable about said app.? Thats entirely unfair (never mind that 'reasonable' is not a suitable adjective for the poster's argument anyway). Information in the app is a secondary source and not a primary source. The app if full canon, as far as I'm aware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 And, since I fished the SSM that MtnLion mentioned, the app is confirmed as right in this particular aspect. Curiously, the poster in question never replied nor turned up for the discussion here :dunno: :stunned: :shocked: :cool4: Boo. I was really looking forward to that discussion :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Boo. I was really looking forward to that discussion :P Yeah, I got my popcorn ready, and nothing :crying: I'm just waiting if Jon=Aegon resurfaes somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Yeah, I got my popcorn ready, and nothing :crying: I'm just waiting if Jon=Aegon resurfaes somewhere. Who was Jon Snow's mother by the way? Wasn't that some Dornish wet nurse Wylla? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Who was Jon Snow's mother by the way? Wasn't that some Dornish wet nurse Wylla? :P You mean, the one who was tagging along with Ned's army and no-one ever noticed her? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 You mean, the one who was tagging along with Ned's army and no-one ever noticed her? :P :shocked: Ohhhhh. So there is a sound argument against that one. How about Ashara? Or the Fisherman's daughter? :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 :shocked: Ohhhhh. So there is a sound argument against that one. How about Ashara? Or the Fisherman's daughter? :devil: What, you're not sold on the invisible campfollower theory? :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 What, you're not sold on the invisible campfollower theory? :P Ah! A supporter then. Yes it can be possible, seeing that House Peverell can trace their descent to Rhoyne, who later came to Dorne and she could've gotten her hands on the invisibility cloak. Or she is a ninja, and Ned couldn't just resist her moves.... :smileysex: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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