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Stubby

R + L = J v 63

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No, it wasn't "hers," but being the scholar herself, she was devastated by it's loss.

Well you didn't hear it from me, but I know a guy, who dated a girl, who was once related to the second cousin Paulie 2 toes from Staton Island, and Paulie uses to date Gina Papagorgio and she used to read books and stuff. She said Cleo played around a little bit and was devastated by a lot of things that night. Now they say she and Tony killed themselves. But Paulie told his second cousin that it was the Italian Mob that put the wack on them. You know if it came from Gina it has to be true, not only did she went to school and everything, but more important she used to work for Caesers garage and auto emporium, and you know that means? Yeah, you know what I'm talking about.

The point of all that being is that history is open to interpretation. Scholars interpret other scholars work as they interpreted works before them. There own beliefs, ideas, views and theories are added to the mix. Mark Anthony could of given Cleo whatever he wanted he was an incredibly powerful person, he chose scrolls for a reason, he basically gave her books.

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Not that its on subject but I believe Atlantis was an island or continent that sank. There's a theory it happened to a continent in the Pacific known as Mu or Lemuria thousands of years prior and that Atlanteans were the surviving members of that continent.

Mu is the name of a hypothetical lost continent in the Pacific Ocean, described by James Churchward and based on a translation - later proved completely wrong - from a Maya manuscript by Flemish abbot Charles Etienne Brasseur de Bourbourg.

Lemuria is instead located in the Indian Ocean and its existence was postulated to explain the presence of terrestrial animals (like lemurs) belonging to the same species but separated by geographical barriers.

Basically we are in between fiction and pre-continental drift theory science.

Atlantis is a completely different story. It is first mentioned by Plato in his dialogues of Timaeus and Critias and is generally interpreted as a myth conceived by the Greek philosopher to explain his political views. Atlantis is the nemesis of the perfect society as theorized in his The Republic aka Athens. It is a powerful political metaphor based on the fading memory of cataclysmic past events in the Mediterranean area. Recent studies have even fleshed out similarities between Plato's text and some of the songs of Homer's Odyssey...

The Asoiaf recurring themes of the 'doom' of a highly advanced society - Valyria - , the punishment of its hubris, the clash of different civilizations, the subsequent rise of new civilizations, lifestyles and religions are very much informed by this particular segment of (cultural) history. Useless to say, I find it terribly fascinating *nerdness alert LOL*

I see what you did there ;)

I'm with Frozen Fire, from an historical and archeological point of view Thera seems like the best bet for Atlantis. The potential parallels to the Doom are fascinating as well.

Incidentally, Dany assuming the Quartheen manner of dress has always reminded me of Minoan fashion. Google it if you don't know what I mean ;)

Exactly ;)

If Varys was/is Serras brother, then his relationship with Illryio makes sense if they are Blackfyres, and the connection and desire to put (f)Aegon on the throne makes even more sense, as well possessing the dragon eggs.

Now imagine if Varys and Serra were children of the last Blackyre female descendant and Aerion The Monstrous' passed over son... :leer: :wideeyed:

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Mu is the name of a hypothetical lost continent in the Pacific Ocean, described by James Churchward and based on a translation - later proved completely wrong - from a Maya manuscript by Flemish abbot Charles Etienne Brasseur de Bourbourg.

Lemuria is instead located in the Indian Ocean and its existence was postulated to explain the presence of terrestrial animals (like lemurs) belonging to the same species but separated by geographical barriers.

Basically we are in between fiction and pre-continental drift theory science.

Atlantis is a completely different story. It is first mentioned by Plato in his dialogues of Timaeus and Critias and is generally interpreted as a myth conceived by the Greek philosopher to explain his political views. Atlantis is the nemesis of the perfect society as theorized in his The Republic aka Athens. It is a powerful political metaphor based on the fading memory of cataclysmic past events in the Mediterranean area. Recent studies have even fleshed out similarities between Plato's text and some of the songs of Homer's Odyssey...

The Asoiaf recurring themes of the 'doom' of a highly advanced society - Valyria - , the punishment of its hubris, the clash of different civilizations, the subsequent rise of new civilizations, lifestyles and religions are very much informed by this particular segment of (cultural) history. Useless to say, I find it terribly fascinating *nerdness alert LOL*

Exactly ;)

Now imagine if Varys and Serra were children of the last Blackyre female descendant and Aerion The Monstrous' passed over son... :leer: :wideeyed:

Now THAT is a thought isn't it? :cool4:

OK, I have a theory what if : (N+A=(f)A) + (R+R=D)+ (R+L=J) = The Three Head of the Dragon :blink:

I don't know. I get the sense from the read that many of the female Targaryens seem to gravitate towards more natural familial relations, only participating because they did what they were told, with only a few exceptions.

And I feel that Rhaella likely had more of a truly maternal instinct with Rhaegar and tried to protect both him and Viserys from Aerys.

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OK, I have a theory what if : (N+A=(f)A) + (R+R=D)+ (R+L=J) = The Three Head of the Dragon :blink:

R+R =D? Who are Dany's parents here exactly?

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I think that would be Rhaegar and Rhaela. Which is just plain crazy!

Or maybe Robert and Rhaela?

Then again... if Rhaegar was The Last Dragon and dragons can change genders... Robert and Rhaegar?!?

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You raise some good points about Varys, and then there are more that mystify me, and these are my questions.

Varys is one of the few that we don't have a family name for- he's just Varys. But, his name seems to be in the tradition of Valaryian culture if we look at names like Aerys of course, but other names as well with the same variation.

Also, why is it that the Blackfyre line is only continued through the females? They never give birth to sons? And why was Varys so randomly picked to spill his blood for a magic ritual?

Kings blood if he himself is a Blackfyre?

A deliberate attempt to keep him from reproducing if he is a Blackfyre? And then who would target and carry out the rendering of Blackyre males to keep them from reproducing , or simply be killed?

The Faceless Men?

The FM hated the dragonlords. Maybe, purely speculating here, their original mission was to do just that- wipe out the dragon lords where they could, but they couldn't quite make it to Westeros where they were so exclusive, yet insulated.

Egg kept his head shaved to hide his Targaryen hair, I wonder if Varys does the same?

If Varys was/is Serras brother, then his relationship with Illryio makes sense if they are Blackfyres, and the connection and desire to put (f)Aegon on the throne makes even more sense, as well possessing the dragon eggs.

That's what was I'm curious about. The magic ritual, he described, was definitely successful. And we are repeatedly told that the royal blood is the best for blood magic.

According to his story: when he was a boy and traveling with a troupe, the men showed up and asked to buy him. I doubt he was the only child/boy in the troupe. His story is a complete mystery, but I think that what he told Tyrion was the truth and I also think it has more significance to the story than it seems. I have doubts that he was just randomly picked for the ritual, especially with all the slavery around. That man could buy any boy for that reason.

I am for the Varys/Serras Blackfyre theory for many reasons: relationship with Illyrio, sudden great interest in basically foreign country (I mean if you would like to change the world begin with your homeland, where slavery and injustice is everywhere, especially when you were a part of that injustice and experienced it on your own skin), scheming to throw away the Targs and putting Aegon, (if the theory is right) your own nephew to the throne... That all make sense then.

As for who and why made him a eunuch: it could be a random fanatic R'hallist (or whatever they are called), who just figured out that Varys was of royal blood and decided to use him for sacrifice. By the way, so far we've never seen red priests to actually hearing the voice answering their questions, they've got only visions.

R+R=D is kind of strange.

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Just to add that by the time Dany was conceived Rhaegar was most likely at Trident, or dead, as for that matter. So, no way that ever happened.


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Just to add that by the time Dany was conceived Rhaegar was most likely at Trident, or dead, as for that matter. So, no way that ever happened.

Exactly what I was going to say :)

The new name threw me for a bit ("why does this person have Mladen's picture??")

I must say I like it though. Very fitting :D

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Exactly what I was going to say :)

The new name threw me for a bit ("why does this person have Mladen's picture??")

I must say I like it though. Very fitting :D

Friends can call me Mladen... It is my real life first name, so you won't be mistaken... Thank you dear... I think it is fitting...

Now, I wanted to discuss about certain quote I found several days ago when I looked at the scene in which Ned tells Cersei about him finding out about her incestuous relationship with Jaime. I wanted to ask you then, but I have forgotten, and one thread reminded me today:

Ned thought, if it came to that, the life of some child I did not know, against Robb and Sansa and Arya and Bran and Rickon, what would I do? Even more so, what would Catelyn do, if it were Jon’s life, against the children of her body? He did not know. He prayed he never would.

Does anyone think, like I do, that this is subtle clue for RLJ? Jon's life against Cat's children? I mean, it is like the sole existence of Jon endangers Cat's children, and that Ned hopes it will never come to that. The only plausible solution would be R+L=J, and danger it would represent if one day someone finds out...

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Friends can call me Mladen... It is my real life first name, so you won't be mistaken... Thank you dear... I think it is fitting...

Now, I wanted to discuss about certain quote I found several days ago when I looked at the scene in which Ned tells Cersei about him finding out about her incestuous relationship with Jaime. I wanted to ask you then, but I have forgotten, and one thread reminded me today:

Ned thought, if it came to that, the life of some child I did not know, against Robb and Sansa and Arya and Bran and Rickon, what would I do? Even more so, what would Catelyn do, if it were Jon’s life, against the children of her body? He did not know. He prayed he never would.

Does anyone think, like I do, that this is subtle clue for RLJ? Jon's life against Cat's children? I mean, it is like the sole existence of Jon endangers Cat's children, and that Ned hopes it will never come to that. The only plausible solution would be R+L=J, and danger it would represent if one day someone finds out...

Well, that quote can be interpret that way or may be that example popped out in his head just because he knows that their relationship are awful, Cat can't stand Jon.

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Friends can call me Mladen... It is my real life first name, so you won't be mistaken... Thank you dear... I think it is fitting...

Now, I wanted to discuss about certain quote I found several days ago when I looked at the scene in which Ned tells Cersei about him finding out about her incestuous relationship with Jaime. I wanted to ask you then, but I have forgotten, and one thread reminded me today:

Ned thought, if it came to that, the life of some child I did not know, against Robb and Sansa and Arya and Bran and Rickon, what would I do? Even more so, what would Catelyn do, if it were Jon’s life, against the children of her body? He did not know. He prayed he never would.

Does anyone think, like I do, that this is subtle clue for RLJ? Jon's life against Cat's children? I mean, it is like the sole existence of Jon endangers Cat's children, and that Ned hopes it will never come to that. The only plausible solution would be R+L=J, and danger it would represent if one day someone finds out...

Yes I agree completely. Even more telling is that Ned does not include Jon in the litany of his own children. And of course, as you say, the acknowledgement that Jon's very existence is a threat to Cat's children. Worth noting that the threat to Cersei's children would come from the same person who would threaten all the Stark children (including Jon) if Ned's deception were known.

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Well, that quote can be interpret that way or may be that example popped out in his head just because he knows that their relationship are awful, Cat can't stand Jon.

Well, I doubt it can be interpreted in the way you suggest given that his thought are comparing situations meaning "Would Cat harm Jon if it comes to lives of her children?" That has nothing with the fact whether Cat likes Jon or not.

Yes I agree completely. Even more telling is that Ned does not include Jon in the litany of his own children. And of course, as you say, the acknowledgement that Jon's very existence is a threat to Cat's children. Worth noting that the threat to Cersei's children would come from the same person who would threaten all the Stark children (including Jon) if Ned's deception were known.

I agree... I like how you compared the situation, especially the Robert part...

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Well, I doubt it can be interpreted in the way you suggest given that his thought are comparing situations meaning "Would Cat harm Jon if it comes to lives of her children?" That has nothing with the fact whether Cat likes Jon or not.

I agree... I like how you compared the situation, especially the Robert part...

Well, probably you are right.

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Just to add that by the time Dany was conceived Rhaegar was most likely at Trident, or dead, as for that matter. So, no way that ever happened.

The better part of a year elapsed between Rhaegar's death and Dany's birth, and her conception probably happened fairly soon after the battle at the Trident. Perhaps best to consult Jaime's recollections in SoS or more likely AFfC.

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The better part of a year elapsed between Rhaegar's death and Dany's birth, and her conception probably happened fairly soon after the battle at the Trident. Perhaps best to consult Jaime's recollections in SoS or more likely AFfC.

Well, Jaime recollects seeing Rhaella for the last time on the day she went to Dragonstone. That happened after battle of Trident, and her face was covered to hide traces of Aerys' sexual abuse. So, I believe those bruises and scars are from the night Dany is conceived which makes that date somewhere during or post battle of Trident, excluding Rhaegar as her father completely.

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