aiiila Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Well, so if Jon is a Targ and Tyrion is too. Jon found an uncle and Danaerys a brother (assuming Aerys raped the Lady Joanna). It explains that Jon and Tyrion got along very well, but I guess that may be due to Tyrion's charm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Jon is almost definitely a Targ. Tyrion is way more doubtful; I think if any of Joanna's children are really Aerys' spawn, it's the twins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteOwl18 Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Jon is almost definitely a Targ. Tyrion is way more doubtful; I think if any of Joanna's children are really Aerys' spawn, it's the twins. Sure, it's more likely (not to mention more interesting) for the twins to be Targs than Tyrion. But, honestly, I think that neither of them is a Targ. There's only so many times GRRM can pull the secret Targ card... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted October 13, 2013 Share Posted October 13, 2013 Oh, I agree. I don't think any of them are Targ bastards, it's just that the twins make infinitely more sense (and irony) to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Oh, I agree. I don't think any of them are Targ bastards, it's just that the twins make infinitely more sense (and irony) to me. Agreed. Tywin's kids are all Tywin's, but if any aren't -- huge if -- it's the twins, not Tyrion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 If we're moving toward the slayer of lies, it might be the lie that Jon is Ned's son. People see "slayer of lies" and assume that it involves "bad" people or uncovering some sort of treachery. Maybe it doesn't, at least not all three. Or if the winged wolf is Bran, both might refer to him as well. Nice catch :O Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Beyond the Wall Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 When some of you mention an ice dragon are you referring to as the Ice Dragon from the short story of the same name that GRMM published in 1980?...A dragon that instead of fire breath cold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 When some of you mention an ice dragon are you referring to as the Ice Dragon from the short story of the same name that GRMM published in 1980?...A dragon that instead of fire breath cold? http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Ice_dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Beyond the Wall Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Ice_dragon OK, thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Oh, I agree. I don't think any of them are Targ bastards, it's just that the twins make infinitely more sense (and irony) to me. Agreed. Tywin's kids are all Tywin's, but if any aren't -- huge if -- it's the twins, not Tyrion. Obviously. It is one thing for a King to demand the right of the first night, but to think that he would just go to a noblewoman's bed 8-9 years after her marriage, and if such a scandal happens, the woman would do nothing to prevent a living reminder of this humiliation (moontea) is stretching it too far. Of course all of it discounting the fact that Tywin or Joanna will let it happen in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Obviously. It is one thing for a King to demand the right of the first night, but to think that he would just go to a noblewoman's bed 8-9 years after her marriage, and if such a scandal happens, the woman would do nothing to prevent a living reminder of this humiliation (moontea) is stretching it too far. Of course all of it discounting the fact that Tywin or Joanna will let it happen in the first place. There is no suggestion of any first night rights on Aerys' part. Nor that it would be humiliating for Joanna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Could someone please point me to quotes or other materials which place Aegon's birth before the Rebellion? Someone claims that Rhaegar returned from ToJ for the birth of his son and that anything else is a fan invention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 There is no suggestion of any first night rights on Aerys' part. Nor that it would be humiliating for Joanna. Then what is even the precedent of discussing X Lannister is a Targ theories? I admit I've never thoroughly looked at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Could someone please point me to quotes or other materials which place Aegon's birth before the Rebellion? Someone claims that Rhaegar returned from ToJ for the birth of his son and that anything else is a fan invention. He could be right, I've never been able to find the precise sources for our 'well known facts'. Only vague stuff like Aegon being an infant at the time of his death (covers 0-2 according to airline policies ;) ). What is certain, is that the claim being made is at least as much an invention, and simply doesn't make sense. Then what is even the precedent of discussing X Lannister is a Targ theories? I admit I've never thoroughly looked at them. Perhaps you should read up a bit before offering comment then? There have been many threads on these subjects. I don't know if these are the best ones, respectively, but here's a start for you. http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/59906-cersei-and-jamie-are-targaryens/?hl=%20targaryen%20%20twins http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/75441-a-j-t/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 He could be right, I've never been able to find the precise sources for our 'well known facts'. Only vague stuff like Aegon being an infant at the time of his death (covers 0-2 according to airline policies ;) ). Perhaps we could try to piece it from indirect references? I think it is certainly worth the effort. One lead might be the references to the comet over KL when Aegon was born. Is there a mention of it in connection with heralding the war? And is there any mention of a comet during the Rebellion? Also, Kevan mentioning that Cersei would have given Rhaegar the sons he wanted is, IMHO, a clear reference to Elia unable to bear any more children after Aegon, and hence referring that Rhaegar did pursue Lyanna only afterwards, but it cannot be used in a way of a proof. More thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 There is no suggestion of any first night rights on Aerys' part. Nor that it would be humiliating for Joanna. Perhaps you should read up a bit before offering comment then? There have been many threads on these subjects. I don't know if these are the best ones, respectively, but here's a start for you.http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/59906-cersei-and-jamie-are-targaryens/?hl=%20targaryen%20%20twinshttp://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/75441-a-j-t/Let's keep it polite shall we? Anyhow instead of me going through with 500+ posts can you tell me how else Aerys and Joanna might've gotten together to make Targ babies. Was it consensual then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Correction: the comet was there when Aegon was conceived, not born. It really makes no sense for Rhaegar to become entangled with Lyanna while Elia was preggers with the supposed PTWP and it was not known yet that she wouldn't be able to bear any more children after that. One curious thing: As I was checking through what Maester Aemon had to say in ADWD, I came over this: Tell them. The prophecy . . . my brother’s dream . . . Lady Melisandre has misread the signs. Stannis . . . Stannis has some of the dragon blood in him, yes. His brothers did as well. Rhaelle, Egg’s little girl, she was how they came by it . . . their father’s mother . . . she used to call me Uncle Maester when she was a little girl. I remembered that, so I allowed myself to hope . . . perhaps I wanted to . . . we all deceive ourselves, when we want to believe. Melisandre most of all, I think. The sword is wrong, she has to know that . . . light without heat . . . an empty glamor . . . the sword is wrong, and the false light can only lead us deeper into darkness, Sam. Daenerys is our hope. Tell them that, at the Citadel. Make them listen. They must send her a maester. Daenerys must be counseled, taught, protected. The first emphasis is mine, and the brother in reference is almost certainly Egg. I presume that the dream is one that, together with the Ghost of the High Heart's prophecy, compelled him to order the marriage of Aerys and Rhaella and perhaps led to the events of Summerhall. Previously, Aemon says that all his brother dreamt of dragons and it brought them death (that would be Daeron, Aerion and Egg).Now, Aemon's emphasis on "protected" may simply be due to the fact that Dany is essential as PTWP but somehow, I wonder whether he might have had some specific danger on his mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old-Growth Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Ygrain: The brother Aemon speaks of is almost certainly Daeron, Maekar's second son, who, as we may learn from The Hedge Knight, is much given to wine but also to prophetic dreams.As for Aemon's admonition that Daenerys needs to be "counseled, taught, protected", you can bet that Dany will bristle when she hears that. On the other had I think that the stipulated need for protection is just a matter of general principles: Aemon suspects dangers knowing what happened to his family, as well he might. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ygrain Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Ygrain:The brother Aemon speaks of is almost certainly Daeron, Maekar's second son, who, as we may learn from The Hedge Knight, is much given to wine but also to prophetic dreams.Yes but he speaks of all of them having dragon dreams and dying for it, hence Egg cannot be excluded. It is possible though that he could have acted on Daeron's dream, as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old-Growth Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 Yes but he speaks of all of them having dragon dreams and dying for it, hence Egg cannot be excluded. It is possible though that he could have acted on Daeron's dream, as well.It could be Aegon, but once I read "The Hedge Knight", it seemed likely that Daeron was the one, especially as Aemon was Daeron's maester before going to the Night's Watch. If Egg was given to prophetic dreams we have not seen the same so far in the D & E novellas, IIRC. Reread the Hedge Knight and see what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.