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Stubby

R + L = J v 63

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I was under the impression that one of the reasons the fire at SummerHall started was because someone was trying to hatch dragon eggs.

Yes that's the official story. So what happened to them all? How do we get from Aegon V's childhood when every Targ has one, to Viserys and Dany's era when they're rare as hell even for a Targaryen? Makes me think someone absconded with them in the Summerhall aftermath and got away with it.

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Yes that's the official story. So what happened to them all? How do we get from Aegon V's childhood when every Targ has one, to Viserys and Dany's era when they're rare as hell even for a Targaryen? Makes me think someone absconded with them in the Summerhall aftermath and got away with it.

If so, it makes sense that the remaining Targaryens wouldn't exactly herald that they were looking for them and/or trying to get new ones. Maybe Varys came to Aerys' court by this line,convincing him that he could help the Iron Throne find more eggs.

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Hmmmm...I respectfully disagree. I think Ilyrio knew exactly what Dany could do with those eggs. or maybe he only hoped she could do it. But they weren't given to her out of ignorance.

What would have given him the hope she could do it?

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Hmmmm...I respectfully disagree. I think Ilyrio knew exactly what Dany could do with those eggs. or maybe he only hoped she could do it. But they weren't given to her out of ignorance.

Based on what? The family has been trying for more than 100 years to hatch them with failure every single time, and Dany hatching them relied on a string of instances -- her successfully getting pregnant, Drogo getting injured, Dany making the deal with MMD, the funeral pyre -- that Illyrio couldn't possibly have foreseen or controlled.

They weren't given to her out of ignorance, but they weren't given to her with the expectation that they would hatch, either. I think they were intended to be used to purchase transportation and/or sellswords.

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Regarding where fAegon's egg might be, I draw your attention to six oaken chests with iron hasps that Illyrio sent with Tyrion, Haldon and Duck. In one "There is a gift for the boy..." Candied ginger? Maybe. A dragon's egg or a fancy Valyrian sword? More likely ;)

:bowdown:

I never considered there could be a dragon egg in one of those chests. Thats exciting :) But now im wondering what good would it be? If a dragon hatches it will never grow fast enough to do any fighting. An egg could serve well though to get FAegon the money he needs to fund his campaign.

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Based on what? The family has been trying for more than 100 years to hatch them with failure every single time, and Dany hatching them relied on a string of instances -- her successfully getting pregnant, Drogo getting injured, Dany making the deal with MMD, the funeral pyre -- that Illyrio couldn't possibly have foreseen or controlled.

They weren't given to her out of ignorance, but they weren't given to her with the expectation that they would hatch, either. I think they were intended to be used to purchase transportation and/or sellswords.

I agree Apple about the eggs being intended to buy ships.

Wow what a different story ASOIAF couldve been. Just that probably wouldve effected every other storyline. Especially at the time.

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:bowdown:

I never considered there could be a dragon egg in one of those chests. Thats exciting :) But now im wondering what good would it be? If a dragon hatches it will never grow fast enough to do any fighting. An egg could serve well though to get FAegon the money he needs to fund his campaign.

I'd say that just his possession of it alone might be sufficient to boost PR.

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I'd say that just his possession of it alone might be sufficient to boost PR.

Agreed, and in a similar but opposite way to that by which John the Fiddler was weakened in the opinion of those who came to the "Traitor's Tourney" because he did not have Blackfyre. (Reference is to The Mystery Knight) It will help further if those chests also contain that sword, or if the Golden Company have the sword.

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What if R+L=J is true (the surest theory on the board IMO), but Jon doesn't let it change him and the rest of his arc he's just at Winterfell, the Wall, Hardhome or some such instead of pressing his claim or allying with Dany or whatever it is he would decide to do?

That cannot be a grammatically correct sentence. But as an aspiring author Ive been told thats what editors are for :P

If this is the type of qurstion that will rile up bad vibes around here then just ignore my bong induced ramblings :D

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I tend to think that while Rhaegar was going to Summer Hall for prophetic inspiration and his next big hit, I also think he was going for more tangible reasons like finding the eggs that were the cause of the fire.



I'm sure Varys knows the same reasons for the destruction of Summer Hall since Aerys was there. I don't think it's a leap to assume that perhaps he might have a vested interest in getting the jump on Rhaegar, or anyone else trying to get those eggs.



While I think that by and large the eggs came to be more of a symbol of Targaryen power with no real expectation other than ornamental, and a signal for legitimacy to someone like Varys, for Rhaegar they may have been part of whatever prophesy he was trying to understand, which Dany later fulfilled.



Right now, for the Blackfyre operation to work, (f)Aegon needs as much credibility as Jon will have to eventually have, which would be the same reason an egg might be in Lyannas tomb and the same reason, as Lady Gwyn. pointed out in the text, that an egg might have found it's way in a barrel along with Tyrion.


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Based on what? The family has been trying for more than 100 years to hatch them with failure every single time, and Dany hatching them relied on a string of instances -- her successfully getting pregnant, Drogo getting injured, Dany making the deal with MMD, the funeral pyre -- that Illyrio couldn't possibly have foreseen or controlled.

They weren't given to her out of ignorance, but they weren't given to her with the expectation that they would hatch, either. I think they were intended to be used to purchase transportation and/or sellswords.

Plus, Illyrio expected Dany to die in the Dothraki sea.

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:bowdown:

I never considered there could be a dragon egg in one of those chests. Thats exciting :) But now im wondering what good would it be? If a dragon hatches it will never grow fast enough to do any fighting. An egg could serve well though to get FAegon the money he needs to fund his campaign.

Not to mention that short of the most powerful warg that has ever been, at least according to sixskins, there is also no way of controlling them without sorcery.

But obviously the Author intends those eggs to be relevant to the story beyond currency, or he'd not be referencing them, particularly in the context that Illryio did.

As I said, most believe them to be ornamental, but I think there are some who think otherwise.

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What if R+L=J is true (the surest theory on the board IMO), but Jon doesn't let it change him and the rest of his arc he's just at Winterfell, the Wall, Hardhome or some such instead of pressing his claim or allying with Dany or whatever it is he would decide to do?

That cannot be a grammatically correct sentence. But as an aspiring author Ive been told thats what editors are for :P

If this is the type of qurstion that will rile up bad vibes around here then just ignore my bong induced ramblings :D

I don't think it's ramblings at all.

The plain truth is that for most in the North, the Starks never stopped being their kings, (little k), so I don't think it would matter one whit to them that Rhaegar Targaryen is Jons father. It's who his mother is that will count.

Who his father is will only become important when and if he goes south.

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Not to mention that short of the most powerful warg that has ever been, at least according to sixskins, there is also no way of controlling them without sorcery.

But obviously the Author intends those eggs to be relevant to the story beyond currency, or he'd not be referencing them, particularly in the context that Illryio did.

As I said, most believe them to be ornamental, but I think there are some who think otherwise.

I'll have to look out for this on my reread. I don't remember...unless you mean the eggs from Dunk and Egg?

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I don't think it's ramblings at all.

The plain truth is that for most in the North, the Starks never stopped being their kings, (little k), so I don't think it would matter one whit to them that Rhaegar Targaryen is Jons father. It's who his mother is that will count.

Who his father is will only become important when and if he goes south.

I agree.

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You are absolutely right, I had forgotten that. That actually supports a theory that I've been hatching (see what I did there? ;))

Now that I'm rested and have the book in front of me I can elaborate a bit. Here is the passage from TMK when Egg mentions his egg:

Note the reference to his brothers having eggs, but no mention of Rhae and Daella. Since females were banned from Targ succession after the Dance, I surmise they may have stopped giving them eggs at that time. If that's so, Dany would be the first Targ female in almost two hundred years to possess an egg. That she had three and they all hatched is highly indicative that the feminine element is required (I think this has come up before) In that case we could also eliminate Rhaenys as an egg bearer and surmise that Dany's three eggs may have come from Rhaegar, Viserys and Aegon. The names even match up quite neatly (though admittedly that seems to have been Dany's intent)

If Jon has an egg, I predict it will be "white and green, all swirly" :)

Eta- To be fair, given the quote above, we can't rule out the eggs having come from Dragonstone when Dany and Viserys fled. I like the symmetry of them having belonged to the males in her immediate family though, and the idea of Varys smuggling them out of KL under Robert's nose. :cool4:

Still we have Elaena's egg to deal with, she being second generation after the Dance of the Dragons...

I agree though with the feminine element in the hatching alchemy. It is both symbolically potent and narratively coherent. Not to mention the irony of a world where power is denied women while residing in their very essence...

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I agree though with the feminine element in the hatching alchemy. It is both symbolically potent and narratively coherent. Not to mention the irony of a world where power is denied women while residing in their very essence...

Dragon fire hatches dragon eggs: that's the short of it. Perhaps in the absence of a dragon, we require the feminine element. Dany plus Mirri Maz Duur in the present instance. But dragons are neither male nor female (Aemon), and dragons had to have some way of hatching dragon eggs in the wild before the Valyrians tamed them (with "blood magic and sorcerous horns".)

I assume that along with the dragons themselves, the knowledge and means of hatching the eggs disappeared in the Dance of the Dragons (Aegon III was only a boy when that war ended, and he may not have been told, or perhaps the small dragon that was left to him died before it could produce the fire needed to hatch an egg.)

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Not to mention the possibility that Bran saw dragons stirring in Asshai, was it? So there's possibly wild dragons out there, still, and those can only hatch themselves as well.



Makes you wonder how long after laying the eggs the dragons hatch them themselves? Do they leave the nest and come back later, and for Targ dragons that meant they'd already taken the eggs away? Or do the dragons simply not hatch them easily in captivity, as is seen with some zoo animals?


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