Jon Dead/Resurrect = Night's Watch Vow Fulfilled?

[Consigliere]

I believe that Jon's "death" and resurrection would release him from his oath.

“Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death.

And when a sworn brother dies - "And now his watch is ended."

This tells me that death does in fact release a sworn brother from his vow.

[Djinn]

Jon's ressurection, via Melisandre, would make him into a undead, like Beric and Cat. Undead do not serve in the NW.

[lidsa]

Yes it matter. The skepticism over King in the North theories rest heavily on Jon´s personality, as a restriction for accepting the crown over his vows to the NW.

Well, those theories claim he will be offered a crown in the first place.

Who would offer a crown?

Stannis wanted him to be a Lord, so no crown there.

The North has Rickon, Sansa, Arya and technically even Bran, with Rickon the most likely to be backed and according to Manderly that is already in the works.

If Jon is legitimised by Robbs will, he comes after the other kids.

If Jon finds out he is legit because Rhaegar and Lyanna were married, he still comes after all the other Stark kids.

Really, the only king he can be is the Night's King.

[Mikeygigs]

There was a thread about this a few days ago.

Ultimately, I feel that Jon won't need this (as the watch is going to be either destroyed, or made ineffectual), but I think its definitely plausible.

He'd never forget about the Others, the true threat, but I can see him being released from the organization, one way or another. .

[SirVardisoftheVale]

Jon is not going to die forever. He's coming back one way or another, through ressurection or miracle healing. Also, his time wearing the black is also done, forever. Whether or not GRRM creates a circumstance where being dead for a brief period of time serves as a technicality (possibly through some currently unknown precedence where a brother died, miraculously came back and was released of his vows to live his new life) or if GRRM creates another way to do it. One possible way to release him of his vows without looking like deus ex machima is creating a very harsh environment for Jon at the Wall. His brothers didn't want him to live, they don't want him back. Or, the Wildlings go ape shit crazy on them and take Jon somewhere to heal or be ressurected. I'll let the Master come up with the exact instance, but trust me, he's done at the Wall. At least he\s done at the Wall wearing the Black.

[Lord of Beyond the Wall]

This is a moot issue because Jon already quit the NW when he decided to march south to face Ramsay Bolton.

[Ser Greg of House House]

This is a moot issue because Jon already quit the NW when he decided to march south to face Ramsay Bolton.

No. Ramsay Bolton threatened the NW and Jon was deffending it. In his mind he wasn't betraying his vows at all.

[Lord of Beyond the Wall]

No. Ramsay Bolton threatened the NW and Jon was deffending it. In his mind he wasn't betraying his vows at all.

Actually, he never thought of the NW while taking his decision, at all. Remember he thought that he was about to commit treason, then he thought of Robb, Bran, Rickon, Sansa and Arya (in that order). Never, at any moment the NW was mentioned, he didn't even named someone to take his place while he was absent. Jon effectively quit the Watch and it wasn't the first time but this time is final.

[The Idiots Lantern]

The vows don't matter. You can't put a corpse on any throne.

[Loralei Pyke]

If Jon actually dies, and then is resurrected, I'm not sure he would actually be able to be on the Wall, or to go south of it (like Coldhands). So, if that we're the case, I don't know if he could officially be part of the NW.

If that were to happen (never being able to go south) then it also could be part of GRRM's "bittersweet" ending.

Unless the Wall comes down, of course...

[Lord of Beyond the Wall]

Jon is not dead and isn't going to die.

[Ludd]

1. First of all Jon has NOT yet quit the wall. Planning to do it is NOT the same as doing it, so he as yet has not broken any vows

2. There are no vows about taking sides in the battles in Westeros - that is just convention Not a vow For example Winterfell is critical to the survival of the NW so protecting Winterfell would in no sense be a breach of the NW vow - provided it is done with the intent of protecting the REALM OF MEN

3. In the absence of a LC there is no one to determine what each member of the NW must do, so where their actual post may be is questionable. After all Yoren, Sam and Daeron and even Alister Thorne all left the wall for long periods.

4. Finally the vows talk about staying at the post through the NIGHT. I rather think that with the removal of the others DAY will return and thus all the NW will be released, becoming a sort of militia bound to return to their post should NIGHT return, but otherwise free.

However I can see no easy way out of the take no wife or lands vow, although we KNOW that his is not as magical a vow as the other parts, having been inserted later to prevent another night king. Whereas the ancient part of the vow I think is binding and relates to desertion, the newer part is more like the vows taken by the kingsguard or indeed the maesters.

[The Idiots Lantern]

If Jon is still alive, he's still bound by his oath, even if his own brothers tried to kill him.

If Jon is dead, then he will inherit no title, hold no lands, take no wife, father no sons ANYWAY because re-animated corpses don't do those things.

This is really not a complicated issue.

[Draco_Dracul]

Technically, it would, but I don't think Jon would allow for such a technicality to let him out unless he was desperately needed in a capacity that a man of the Night's Watch could not fulfill.

[LordToo-Fat-to-Sit-a-Horse]

Well, those theories claim he will be offered a crown in the first place.

Who would offer a crown?

Stannis wanted him to be a Lord, so no crown there.

The North has Rickon, Sansa, Arya and technically even Bran, with Rickon the most likely to be backed and according to Manderly that is already in the works.

If Jon is legitimised by Robbs will, he comes after the other kids.

If Jon finds out he is legit because Rhaegar and Lyanna were married, he still comes after all the other Stark kids.

Really, the only king he can be is the Night's King.

His father´s bannermen.

All boys and girls. The north has no place for boy kings. It´s easy to see why they would prefer Jon as a king instead of rickon.

Jon was legitimized and named as heir (according to twoiaf APP).

the place of legitimized bastards in the succession line is disputed. To many Jon would come first since he is the eldest.

[Arthur Dayne's Honor]

Actually, he never thought of the NW while taking his decision, at all. Remember he thought that he was about to commit treason, then he thought of Robb, Bran, Rickon, Sansa and Arya (in that order). Never, at any moment the NW was mentioned, he didn't even named someone to take his place while he was absent. Jon effectively quit the Watch and it wasn't the first time but this time is final.

wasnt there a 2 hour gap in his POV or something. He prolly thought of it then.

[gougef]

Check this out:

http://meereeneseblot.wordpress.com/2013/10/14/other-wars-part-i-jons-noble-heart-and-greater-duty/

[Rhymes with Weak]

wasnt there a 2 hour gap in his POV or something. He prolly thought of it then.

The thing is; that during Jon's little speech in the shieldhall, he didn't actually mention going to war for the watch. He said that Ramsey Bolton had threatened his person and wanted to make him answer for it. You would think that if he cared at all about the Night's Watch he would have specified why his war was in the best interests of the Night's Watch, and might have gotten a far better response from his "brothers".

[lidsa]

His father´s bannermen.

All boys and girls. The north has no place for boy kings. It´s easy to see why they would prefer Jon as a king instead of rickon.

Jon was legitimized and named as heir (according to twoiaf APP).

the place of legitimized bastards in the succession line is disputed. To many Jon would come first since he is the eldest.

I know that if Robbs will clearly states that Jon is legitimised and his heir - without a loophole for the other kids - he could be KitN.

But: In my opinion The Ned held a lot more loyalty than Robb, so if Rickon came back I think those same "father's bannermen" would rather have Rickon than Jon as their king.

Especially because a little boy is easier to influence.

I also don't see Jon taking his siblings' birthright. He knows Sansa is alive and even if he can convince himself that she's now a Lannister, Rickon is bound to come back, as is Arya. Maybe Sam will even tell him about Bran one day.

Not to mention all the other obstacles like Stannis still being in the north and intolerant against other kings, Manderly about to bring back the "real liege Lord" Rickon, the North losing their ally the Riverlands if Jon is made king (they declared for a half Tully Robb, they won't do so for Jon), and of course: Jon currently dying or dead.