Modern Masculinity

[Screaming Turkey Ultimate]

What constitutes masculinity these days? Is it the bulky muscle body (this seems to be very popular where I live)? Is it the confidence? Is it the beard that goes unshaved for two months? Is it the manscaping? Is it the intelligence (lel)? Is it the responsibility, courage, impulsiveness, yoloswag 2012+1? Is it a combination of all these things?

What is it that makes a man in this crazy modern day of ours?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oiXaT_1I-vw

Are you a man?

[polishgenius]

Sure. That and a pair of testicles.

[Screaming Turkey Ultimate]

Sure. That and a pair of testicles.

Pffffffft, the Dude is barely even human, let alone MAN. Doesn't even qualify.

[Lyanna Stark]

What is it that makes a man in this crazy modern day of ours?

Apparently, it at least does not include making or eating macarons. I read in the newspaper today that these were the un-manliest of baked goods. So far, I am uncertain as to how this conclusion was reached and what made them less acceptably masculine than say, a cinnamon bun, but I thought I'd put it out there.

[Castel]

What constitutes masculinity these days?

Whatever you want.

[straits]

Sit with your legs open.

Is this really that bad?

[Sci-2]

I think the OP is actually an interesting question. Woman and men talk about being attracted to a "guy's guy" or a "manly man".

What does that mean exactly? Seems like there's some part of that which includes physical traits, but also some personality ones as well?

[Shryke]

Whatever you want.

Yeah, not really.

I mean, that should be the answer but the truth is masculinity is still heavily defined by societal gender roles, even in the western world.

[Gneisenau]

Maybe manly man traits are some universal traits that all people who prefer men like their man to have.

[maarsen]

Somewhere on the list should be the ability to make a woman happy. While keeping your pants on. Just about anything else is decoration.

[protar]

Maybe manly man traits are some universal traits that all people who prefer men like their man to have.

There are no such universal traits though. I don't want some bearded, stoic body-builder. I prefer them svelte and sensitive :P

[Gneisenau]

Somewhere on the list should be the ability to make a woman happy. While keeping your pants on. Just about anything else is decoration.

Does giving oral count as keeping your pants on?

[TerraPrime]

Somewhere on the list should be the ability to make a woman happy. While keeping your pants on. Just about anything else is decoration.

Heterocentrism much?

Also, try gender-flipping it: the definition of femininity is the ability for a woman to make her man happy. While keeping her panties on.

[Sci-2]

Here's a stab at discussing the intended topic of the OP - from the Mindy Project:

Danny: Was he a man?
Mindy: What do you mean? Yeah, of course he was a man.
Danny: No, I mean, like, was he a man?
Mindy: Danny, don’t just repeat it and expect me to understand what you’re saying.
Danny: Was this the kinda guy who, if he heard glass breaking in the middle of the night, is he gonna jump out of bed, say, “stay here,” and look through the house naked with a baseball bat, or is he gonna hide under the covers with you? Is this the kinda guy who is gonna get grossed out when you give birth, or is he gonna dry your forehead and tell you you look beautiful while all that disgusting stuff is coming out of you? Is this the kinda guy that’s not afraid to get into a fistfight at a Springsteen show because someone really disrespects him? And he’ll just put it out… And he’ll take ‘em down right there, right now?
Mindy: You’re just talking about yourself.

[maarsen]

Does giving oral count as keeping your pants on?

Umm, yes. But I was thinking more on the line of going with her when she wants to go shopping. A friend of mine once told me that he read in a women's magazine that women like to wake up to oral sex. So he thought he would try it with his wife on morning. All she said was"mmph mmph.. . get that thing out of my mouth!" :lol:

[Castel]

Yeah, not really.

I mean, that should be the answer but the truth is masculinity is still heavily defined by societal gender roles, even in the western world.

Hm. Gender roles are there. Point is though,when you have a discussion like this, you (meaning any self-serving entity) can just come up with whatever they want. Real men don't X, Real men don't Y, defniitions on what make up this Real Man sliding down the road forever.

[Sci-2]

Hm. Gender roles are there. Point is though,when you have a discussion like this, you (meaning any self-serving entity) can just come up with whatever they want. Real men don't X, Real men don't Y, defniitions on what make up this Real Man sliding down the road forever.

But there's some cultural baselines. If someone can't back up insults with physical prowess, I'm confident most people are [would] not to say that person is masculine.

There's probably a generally accepted amount of physical strength in general, where being scrawny likely eliminates you but being heavyset is acceptable if you have muscle.

Having a phobia of spiders or bees is probably another tick against you. So is whining about circumstances.

There's probably some wiggle room in there but I think those are commonly accepted.

[Lyanna Stark]

Hm. Gender roles are there. Point is though,when you have a discussion like this, you (meaning any self-serving entity) can just come up with whatever they want. Real men don't X, Real men don't Y, defniitions on what make up this Real Man sliding down the road forever.

Hence why it is helpful to look at gender constructivism. If gender is constructed for women, then it follows it is for men, too. So men are as stuck within their assigned gender roles (in some areas perhaps more so) than women are.

Interestingly, Simone de Beauviour claimed in The Second Sex written in the 1940s that women ask themselves "What is a woman?" but that men would not ask themselves "What is a man?" but this thread is proof that this question is asked! In this I think gender essentialism for men is an interesting angle to look at. Gender essentialism for women is something feminism has dealt with for some time, explored and mostly thrown in the bin, or at least tried to. But I haven't seen the same conscious rejection of the male equivalent in the same way.

In fact, I caught myself with avoiding dressing my son in pink clothes, even though I make a point of dressing my daughter in mostly gender neutral clothes (as far as that is possible). I had to stop and think about why I did what I did, and the conclusion is not a pleasant one to make. It is my own internalised sexism at play, I'd say. His masculinity (if a 6 month old even has one?) would hardly be harmed by pink or frilly clothing, so this was all me, and my learnt behaviour of what "men should be". Logically, this is of course totally ridiculous and once brought out into the light, it actually becomes ridiculous too.

(I can safely say that this morning he was wearing a pink and white flowery number and was none the worse for wear, btw. :p )

[Castel]

There's probably a generally accepted amount of physical strength in general, where being scrawny likely eliminates you but being heavyset is acceptable if you have muscle.

You think that most people not only believe but act on this? I mean, I get the stereotype, I can see it in my head, but there are plenty of people who do not fit in. How much do they suffer for it? Where do they suffer for it? Maybe we run into different circles (almost certainly) but this idea that men must look heavyset hasn't seemed to hurt people or be held against them in my experience.

But there's some cultural baselines.

Well, good thing we're a multi-cultural progressive leaning forum. No chance for problems at all. And this is before you get to the problem of one person saying:"this is what I think the 'cultural baseline' is" and another saying:"this is what I think masculinity, as defined within my narrow field without trying to define it for millions of people, is or should be".

[Shryke]

Hm. Gender roles are there. Point is though,when you have a discussion like this, you (meaning any self-serving entity) can just come up with whatever they want. Real men don't X, Real men don't Y, defniitions on what make up this Real Man sliding down the road forever.

Oh no, there's very much many tihngs that most people think of as "the things men do". Not eevry single person ever, but for most people? Yeah, there's an expected standard of "Real men do X and not Y".

But there's some cultural baselines. If someone can't back up insults with physical prowess, I'm confident most people are [would] not to say that person is masculine.

There's probably a generally accepted amount of physical strength in general, where being scrawny likely eliminates you but being heavyset is acceptable if you have muscle.

Having a phobia of spiders or bees is probably another tick against you. So is whining about circumstances.

There's probably some wiggle room in there but I think those are commonly accepted.

Even easier:

Wear a dress.

You'll find out quickly there's very much things that define being a "man" in our society.