Small Questions v 10016

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

With the info that we have Ned took her body back to Winterfell. And Howland Reed is supposed to have been the only other one to survive the ToJ. There are plenty of theories but nothing solid enough to post here.

If the two men split up, I would think that Howland took baby Jon. Howland wasn't a man who attracted a lot of attention, so I don't think it would attract a lot of attention if he were to take a little baby on his own, and travel back, until somewhere past KL, for Robert and Jon Arryn would most certainly have asked Ned where the hell that baby came from.

Ned first travelled to Starfall. It's possible that the two men traveled until close to KL together, and then split up, Ned taking Lyanna so Robert can say goodbye to her, which would also give him the chance to tell Robert and Jon Arryn that he had gotten a woman pregnant, and he was going to collect the child. All the while, Howland would travel with baby Jon a bit further north (very probably also with a wetnurse for Jon), and meet up with Ned and his army later on. Ned's own soldiers didn't know where Jon came from exactly. So I don't think Ned carried him with him all the way from Dorne.

1.Will Howland Reed end up being dead?

2.Why did George kill Maester Aemon in AFFC ?

3. Benjen Stark has been on a 17 year cliffhanger, will we ever find out what the heck happened to him?

4. Since Arya is referenced to as being a Cat, and Sansa is referenced to as being a Little Bird, and Eddard saying "try not to kill eachother" in AGOT, does this all mean that George is forshadowing the fact that Arya will Kill Sansa?

5. In regards to the (Aegon being a Fake Targaryen) theory why would George write a Fake Aegon Targaryen, who thought he was a Real Targaryen, in disguise Pretending to be a Fake Targaryen sellsword's son named Young Griff??? Isn't that just stretching things to a bit of a ridiculous status.. Like it was a Really big reveal with AT and JC but explain that if you still think he's a fake?

1. It's possible. It's also possible that he is infact Jojen. There's a lot of theories about this. You'll find them on this forum though.

2. Maester Aemon was 102 years old. That's very old. And old people die. Besides from that, Aemon was a source of wisdom for Jon and Sam, and they both needed to be on their own feet. So Aemon had to go. Other than that, perhaps we'll find out in WoW.

3. GRRM has stated we'll find out what happened to Benjen either in WoW, or aDoS, so don't worry :)

4. I always that Arya being called Cat was refering to her mother, and another thing that shows she isn't ready to let go of her former identity. Varys' spies are referred to as little birds as well. Is Arya going to kill all of them as well then? I doubt it.

5. Nothing is more dramatic and ironic than a young man who believes himself to be true, while in reality he isn't who he thinks he is, especially if everyone who raised him (JonCon etc) believes him to be true as well. I'm going back and forth between deciding whether or not he's real or fake, but I'm leaning towards real at the moment. Remember that the "Aegon if fake" theories are filled with speculation. If we have to go with the facts alone, however, we barely have anything to go by. Time will show whether or not Aegon is fake, I guess.

You have raised some interesting questions though. So I encourage you to search the forum for threads where these questions are discussed in detail. And if you can't find any, you can make them yourself. There are always people who will be willing to discuss this with you until the most tiny detail has been discussed a hundred times :) I know I would

[TheCube]

 

 

After going back and rereading I think you were right. Daemon II seems more homosexual than Renly. Just wayyy too many "sword" references in there.

If young Daemon wasn't, Alyn Cockshaw certainly was.

[not in the face]

If Brienne of Tarth is a descendant of Ser Duncan the tall does that mean Selwyn Tarth is Duncan's son or grandson? But would that not make the Tarth's bastards? How are they the lords of Evenfall?

[TheCube]

If Brienne of Tarth is a descendant of Ser Duncan the tall does that mean Selwyn Tarth is Duncan's son or grandson? But would that not make the Tarth's bastards? How are they the lords of Evenfall?

She could be descended from him through her Mother, or Selwyn's mother.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

If young Daemon wasn't, Alyn Cockshaw certainly was.

True, Alyn was incredibly jealous of Dunk everytime Daemon went to talk to him.

If Brienne of Tarth is a descendant of Ser Duncan the tall does that mean Selwyn Tarth is Duncan's son or grandson? But would that not make the Tarth's bastards? How are they the lords of Evenfall?

It doesn't necessarily have to have been through the male line. Dunk could have had daughters. Dunk also could have been married. Up until now, it is implied that Dunk only took the white when Egg became King, which happened in 233 AL, making Dunk around 45 to 50 years old (if I'm not mistaken). Egg won't be Dunks squire forever, so they won't travel forever through the entire kingdoms. When the time would have come for Egg to settle down, it's very plausible that Dunk did so as well, perhaps taking a position as a sworn sword at Summerhall, or something like that. He could have married, had children who were already married off, and when his wife died, he joined the KG. There's been a knight who was married when he was promised a spot on the KG. This was Quentyn Ball. He made his wife join the silent sisters so he could become a white knight, but Aegon IV (the king who had promised him a spot) died before an opening became available. So having been married and possibly having children isn't a problem, as long as you severe all ties to them before you officialy join.

She could be descended from him through her Mother, or Selwyn's mother.

This is also an option. Like I said, Dunk could have been married before and had children. If all his children were married and his wife had died before he joined the KG, this wouldn't have been a problem. If he had a daughter, who married a Tarth, it would explain why a shield with his sigil on it was found in Tarth's armory. Dunk would have left all personal sigils behind, because he was becomming a KG knight. Leaving your shield and such with a family member is logical then, they'll have something to remember you by.

Why no one ever told Brienne of her ancestor remains a mystery to me.

Of course, there's also a lot of speculation that Hodor is secretly an ancestor of Dunk through old Nan, from when he visited the She-wolves of Winterfell. So we shall see who is the true descendant... Or... *drum roll...* perhaps they both are! :)

[thegloriousedd]

During brans first green dream when he's looking over at ned, sansa, and arya. He mentions a stone giant casting a shadow over them. Is this foreshadowing LF?

[RumHam]

During brans first green dream when he's looking over at ned, sansa, and arya. He mentions a stone giant casting a shadow over them. Is this foreshadowing LF?

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Prophecies/Entry/1791

The giant in armor made of stone has been discussed a little more, however. There are three main possibilities: Robert Baratheon, Tywin Lannister, or Gregor Clegane, the Mountain that Rides. In the case of Robert, the argument runs that the other figures present in the scene are figures whose actions (or future actions) directly or indirectly affect both of Bran's sisters. Therefore, Robert being present makes sense, since he is the one who is the crux of many events.

However, while the "giant in armor" who stands behind and above the other two men suits the tall and powerful king, the "armor made of stone" filled with "thick black blood" doesn't seem to suit Robert very well at all. While he led a rebellion and turned a blind eye to certain unpleasant events, he was not himself a bad man. On the other hand, this does fit Ser Gregor Clegane very well, from the stone armor to the great height to the darkness and the blood that's thick and black (the result of the poison Oberyn Martell used in their duel). The counter to this is that, so far, Ser Gregor has not done anything to impact both of the girls directly. In response, we think that there's time yet for Gregor Clegane to affect Sansa Stark's life in some notable fashion.

Perhaps the best argument for it being Gregor (or, at least, not Robert) is the fact that Robert appears to already be in the vision, since Ned is pleading to him. There's no good reason for Robert to be a "shadow" looming over himself. This would rule out Robert as the giant in stone armor. The other possibility is Lord Tywin, but we personally don't favor this argument. The stone armor might represent the Rock, but the "thick black blood" really seems too strong even for Tywin Lannister, whose actions -- while often wicked -- were committed with a ruthless precision, and were only a means to an end. Of the three candidates, only Gregor Clegane is a brutal butcher who is good for nothing else but killing.

A Dance with Dragons appears to add significant weight to Gregor Clegane as the giant. Because of his apparent death and resurrection, or perhaps near-death and necromantic healing, "Ser Robert Strong" is clearly what remains of Ser Gregor. In his role of Queen Cersei's likely champion, and his place in Tommen's Kingsguard, strongly suggests that he will in fact have a more direct connection to Ser Jaime than he has previously had.

[Mychel_Redfort]

What bothers me with going for Gregor Clegane is that the vision is located at theTrident, and all the others characters mentioned are really at the Trident at this time (Robert, Ned, Sansa, Arya, Jamie, Sandor). So what if the headless giant was foreshadowing Ilyn Payne beheading Ned ?

[Lost Melnibonean]

During brans first green dream when he's looking over at ned, sansa, and arya. He mentions a stone giant casting a shadow over them. Is this foreshadowing LF?

This would be a very, very big question. But the small answer is yes. (It's not Gregor.) Aside from the usual arguments can find on any number of threads note that as Jaime and Sandor rode against each other in the Hand's Tourney, Petyr loomed over them in the viewing stands wagering on the outcome.

[Arya kiddin']

What bothers me with going for Gregor Clegane is that the vision is located at theTrident, and all the others characters mentioned are really at the Trident at this time (Robert, Ned, Sansa, Arya, Jamie, Sandor). So what if the headless giant was foreshadowing Ilyn Payne beheading Ned ?

This would be a very, very big question. But the small answer is yes. (It's not Gregor.) Aside from the usual arguments can find on any number of threads note that as Jaime and Sandor rode against each other in the Hand's Tourney, Petyr loomed over them in the viewing stands wagering on the outcome.

Before I read the Gregor explanation, I thought it was Robert - he is really referred to as a Giant, and black blood and all may refer to him dying. I don't know what it really means though, it is one of the things that has always pestered me.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Does Melisandre know about Jon's baby switcheroo?

[thegloriousedd]

( rumham)

I understand where your coming from with gregor, but LFs original family crest was the titan of braavos and to me it seemed grrm was setting up for us to see that someone was pulling strings. Which we know he was pitting the starks and lannisters against each other. Just a thought really.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

( rumham)

I understand where your coming from with gregor, but LFs original family crest was the titan of braavos and to me it seemed grrm was setting up for us to see that someone was pulling strings. Which we know he was pitting the starks and lannisters against each other. Just a thought really.

I agree with RunHam on the giant in armor with black blood being Gregor. It all fits perfectly. He also influences Sansa and Arya, though not directly. Without Gregor, Sandor Clegane might have been a much kinder person. He wouldn't have ended up as Joffreys dog, and he wouldn't have helped Sansa as much as he did, since he woudn't have been in KL. The same goes for Arya. Had Gregor not pushed Sandor in the fire, Sandor wouldn't have been afraid of fire, and he wouldn't have fled the Blackwater (if he had been present in this scenario at all), and so he wouldn't have met Arya on the road, kidnapped her, etc.

If it's LF indeed who GRRM is referring to, with the Titan of Braavos (which could easily apply to Arya as she sails underneath the titan to reach the port of Braavos, this happened right?), then where is the black blood coming from?

[Iona]

Does Melisandre know about Jon's baby switcheroo?

If I'm not mistaken, there's no "real" mention of this, but when Jon and Val were talking in aDwD Val warned Jon that "she knows, she sees things in her fires" or something like that.

I'd be more interested to know if Mance has any idea that his son has been shipped away to the far ends of the world. Would he be grateful and offer to help Jon save his sister, or would he scream bloody murder and threaten to cut off Jon's manhood and feed it to the mammoths?

[thegloriousedd]

( RT)

Again I do see where you get that. It just seems like its a bit o reach. This is why

Gregor first has to influence Sandor then Sandor influences everyone else....

While LF is directly influencing.

1. Betrays Ned

2. Is weirdly attracted to sansa ultimately (kidnapped) her.

3. Deprives arya of any family in kl forcing her to run.

And that's just the starks.

Again just my own speculation.

Oh yeah the blackblood. Well maybe its showing that he's rottin in and out?

[Lord Egeman]

I agree with RunHam on the giant in armor with black blood being Gregor. It all fits perfectly. He also influences Sansa and Arya, though not directly. Without Gregor, Sandor Clegane might have been a much kinder person. He wouldn't have ended up as Joffreys dog, and he wouldn't have helped Sansa as much as he did, since he woudn't have been in KL. The same goes for Arya. Had Gregor not pushed Sandor in the fire, Sandor wouldn't have been afraid of fire, and he wouldn't have fled the Blackwater (if he had been present in this scenario at all), and so he wouldn't have met Arya on the road, kidnapped her, etc.

If it's LF indeed who GRRM is referring to, with the Titan of Braavos (which could easily apply to Arya as she sails underneath the titan to reach the port of Braavos, this happened right?), then where is the black blood coming from?

If it is Gregor, then it is a stretch to explain his influence by having influenced Sandor first. Let alone, him being Gregor makes no sense when you throw in Jaime.

Littlefinger, on the other hand, is literally watching Sandor and Jaime during the tourney.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I agree with RunHam on the giant in armor with black blood being Gregor. It all fits perfectly. He also influences Sansa and Arya, though not directly. Without Gregor, Sandor Clegane might have been a much kinder person. He wouldn't have ended up as Joffreys dog, and he wouldn't have helped Sansa as much as he did, since he woudn't have been in KL. The same goes for Arya. Had Gregor not pushed Sandor in the fire, Sandor wouldn't have been afraid of fire, and he wouldn't have fled the Blackwater (if he had been present in this scenario at all), and so he wouldn't have met Arya on the road, kidnapped her, etc.

If it's LF indeed who GRRM is referring to, with the Titan of Braavos (which could easily apply to Arya as she sails underneath the titan to reach the port of Braavos, this happened right?), then where is the black blood coming from?

"Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood."

Elements: 1) Looms over Jaime and Sandor; 2) Giant; 3) Stone armor; 4) Face of darkness and thick black blood.

I don't recall Gregor ever looming over Jaime and Sandor. The only time all three interacted was the Hand's Tourney and that doesn't fit. Nor was he more of a danger than the other two. Jaime crippled Ned and the Hound stood at Joffrey's side as Illyn lopped off Ned's head. Gregor set a trap for Ned but snared Beric instead. And Gregor never realized he had captured Arya.

Petyr had long planned to downfall of House Stark and they were walking down the King's Road right into his trap. And as noted above Petyr loomed above Jaime and Sandor at the Hand's Tourney. Petyr's character fulfills this element better.

Gregor is very, very big but in a world with real giants Gregoe is a man. Petyr's original sigil was the the head of the Titan of Braavos. Neither character fulfills this element better than the other.

Gregor's old helmet had a stone fist on it. In addition Gregor served under the command and presumably the protection of Tywin Lord of Casterly Rock. As noted above Petyr's original sigil was the head of the Titan of Braavos constructed with bronze and stone. Again neither character fulfills this element better than the other.

The face of darkness and thick black blood seems to fit Gregor sooo obviously. Mayhaps a bit too obviously? But it doesn't seem to fit Petyr at all. The only way it works is if you assume the darkness and the black blood represents Petyr's resentment and evilness.

As I was writing this (and looking up references in literature to black blood) I discovered that thick black blood was usually a sign of menstral problems and that made me think of Melisandre and her shadowbabies.

NOW here's a small question: When did we first learn that Petyr's original sigil was the head of the Titan of Braavos, in Feast or earlier?

[PeterPaulGualtieri]

NOW here's a small question: When did we first learn that Petyr's original sigil was the head of the Titan of Braavos, in Feast or earlier?

A Storm of Swords, PDF version pp. 855:

The device painted on the shield was one Sansa did not know; a grey stone head with fiery eyes, upon a light green field. "My grandfather's shield," Petyr explained as he saw her gazing at it. "His own father was born in Braavos and came to the Vale as a sellsword in the hire of Lord Corbray, so my grandfather took the head of the Titan as his sigil when he was knighted."

[RumHam]

( rumham)

I understand where your coming from with gregor, but LFs original family crest was the titan of braavos and to me it seemed grrm was setting up for us to see that someone was pulling strings. Which we know he was pitting the starks and lannisters against each other. Just a thought really.

Just to clarify I only posted a quote from the Prophecies page of The Citadel, those are not my insights and interpretations. Personally I think the giant was supposed to be Gregor, the same giant that Sansa was to slay in a castle of snow. I think maybe Martin changed his plans regarding Gregor and/or Sansa and the two are unlikely to meet again. Hence the scene in Feast with Robin and the doll and the snowcastle was inserted to technically fulfill that Ghost of High Heart's prophecy. Of course maybe I'm wrong and "Robert Strong" will survive Cersei's trial and eventually make his way north.

[Dave17]

Who would Cersei have married had RR not happened.

It seems that all the high lords of Westeros decided to marry their children together to create better unity throughout the 7K.

Lyanna - Robert

Catelyn - Brandon

Lysa - Jaime

After Aerys turned Rhaegar - Cersei down who would she have married?
She was the best 'prize' in the realm, on paper, Beautiful, Twin to the lord of the Westerlands and has a lot of money.
Her only options (Heirs to great houses) are:

Edmure - Tullys are already linked to Lannisters through Jamie - Lysa so a redundant match
Willias - A cripple (May not have been at the time)

Theon - Hahahaha

Who would Tywin have picked?
Viserys is another possibility (Very unlikely though)