Could the Others be a Red Herring

[The Idiots Lantern]

We're born. We live. We die. It's predictable. We're all headed for one grave or another. It's where we'll all end up. We know the ending.

HOW we get there is still a story worth telling.

[Grail King]

Ah, but it's the Game of Thrones that's the real red herring, I'm afraid. ;)

:agree: :agree: :agree:

[Black Crow]

I think that the "problem" with the Others may be in regarding them as external to the story. That the outcome (in story-telling terms) will turn out to be 5+ books dealing with the game of thrones at great length and then suddenly jump to a demon king and his hellish minions doesn't really work. I'd suspect that in the end there will turn out to be much closer connections to characters we have already met and worked with.

[The Idiots Lantern]

We follow the Game of Thrones with such attention though because we know whoever ends up winning will have to deal with the ice zombie apocalypse. THAT was GRRM's genius moving in showing us the Others and how creepy deadly they are before ever introducing us to the game and it's players.We know something they don't, we know the REAL threat is coming, and yet they continue to play their games.... it's excellent tension.

[Han Snow]

We're born. We live. We die. It's predictable. We're all headed for one grave or another. It's where we'll all end up. We know the ending.

HOW we get there is still a story worth telling.

Exactly.

I laughed so hard when the other poster said that he was "arrogant by nature". No arrogance in nature son, it's all nurture.

[bent branch]

This thread has inspired me to make this list of the POV characters, those who have experienced a "magical" event have a + by their name.

Eddard

Aero Hotah

Arriane

Jaime+

Asha

Barristan+

Jon Connington

Daenerys+

Davos+

Samwell+

Jon+

Aeron+

Victarion+

Brienne+

Arya+

Tyrion+

Bran+

Sansa

Catelyn+

Arys

Theon+

Cersei+

Quentyn

Melisandre+

The reason that I made this list is to demonstrate that fantasy elements are pervasive throughout the books. While some people think that the books would be just as good without the fantasy elements, I doubt that if all the fantasy elements were removed it would be the same story at all. However, I don't really blame those who think the fantasy elements are understated in the books, because there are so many people in the story who don't believe. Here is an example from a conversation between Varys and Tyrion in ACOK, Chapter 44 (this is the conversation after Varys tells Tyrion of how he was cut):

When he was done, they rode in silence for a time. Finally Tyrion said, "A harrowing tale. I'm sorry."

The eunuch said, "You are sorry, but you do not believe me. No, my lord, no need to apologize. I was drugged and in pain and it was a very long time ago and far across the sea. No doubt I dreamed that voice. I've told myself as much a thousand times."

"I believe in steel swords, gold coins, and men's wits," said Tyrion. "And I believe there once were dragons. I've seen their skulls, after all."

"Let us hope that is the worst thing you ever see, my lord."

"On that we agree," Tyrion smiled. "And for Ser Cortnay's death, well, we know Stannis hired sellsails from the Free Cities. Perhaps he bought himself a skilled assassin as well."

"A very skilled assassin."

We KNOW Ser Cortnay was killed using magic, however this conversation makes that possibility seem almost silly. This type of conversation happens repeatedly in the books and we can't always be as sure as we are here that there really was any magic involved at all. For this reason it seems as if the fantasy elements in the story are very few and very much in the background.

However, I think many plotlines are going to end with "...and then the Others came." In other words, several of the plotlines have been about getting people where they need to be when the Others invade. Just like any other natural disaster, some of the things that lead people to where they are now won't matter after. I think the focus can shift very quickly to the Others and the threat from the north.

editted: spelling errors

[Han Snow]

This thread has inspired me to make this list of the POV characters, those who have experienced a "magical" event have a + by their name.

Eddard

Aero Hotah

Arriane

Jaime+

Asha

Barristan+

Jon Connington

Daenerys+

Davos+

Samwell+

Jon+

Aeron+

Victarion+

Brienne+

Arya+

Tyrion+

Bran+

Sansa

Catelyn+

Arys

Theon+

Cersei+

Quentyn

Melisandre+

The reason that I made this list is to demonstrate that fantasy elements are pervasive throughout the books. While some people think that the books would be just as good without the fantasy elements, I doubt that if all the fantasy elements were removed it would be the same story at all. However, I don't really blame those who think the fantasy elements are understated in the books, because there are so many people in the story who don't believe. Here is an example from a conversation between Varys and Tyrion in ACOK, Chapter 44 (this is the conversation after Varys tells Tyrion of how he was cut):

We KNOW Ser Cortnay was killed using magic, however this conversation makes that possibility seem almost silly. This type of conversation happens repeatedly in the books and we can't always be as sure as we are here that there really was any magic involved at all. For this reason it seems as if the fantasy elements in the story are very few and very much in the background.

However, I think many plotlines are going to end with "...and then the Others came." In other words, several of the plotlines have been about getting people where they need to be when the Others invade. Just like any other natural disaster, some of the things that lead people to where they are now won't matter after. I think the focus can shift very quickly to the Others and the threat from the north.

editted: spelling errors

Yes good sir, but some are too "arrogant by nature" to understand this. ;)

Whatever GRRM has in store for the ending I won't mind, because I enjoy his way of writing but I can see a LOT of bubblehead fans bursting with anger. :D

[Rickeen Baratheon]

I have a sneaky feeling that the Others have planted seeds for a very long time. They've not even attacked the wall in any numbers, only raised a few wights here and there to assault the LC, provoking him to move all his strength out and get a nice ass whooping!

[jet199]

Even if the Others are defeated easily in the end (I can think of a few classic sci-fi books where this has happened) they are still going to cause a lot of trouble in the mean time. The watch has gone from a position where they had a LC with a plan and a large and varied group of fighters to a situation where they have no leadership and NW and Wildling warriors possibly fighting each other. As it stands the NW is not going to be able to stop an Others invasion even if they know about obsidian and fire. The north has lost most of it's fighting men and have not been keeping an eye on events at the wall. Whether Stannis is able to do anything will depend on whether he survives the siege of Winterfell. It may be that he breaks the siege only to be besieged in Winterfell himself, I don't think he took any obsidian with him to fight Boltons. I think the Others will be able to get as far as the Riverlands before they meet any real opposition and the only person in the south with any idea what to do is Sam all the way down in Oldtown.

[Zman1863]

I put a lot of emphasis on the structure of the series in evaluating theories about the future course of the plot. At its broadest, the series has three main plot threads. These consist of the internal political conflict in Westeros, Dany's Essos arc and the looming threat of the Others in the far north. If these three threads never converged there would have been no point to weaving them into one series, because the series would consist of three unrelated stories told in a disjointed fashion. So from a structural standpoint it doesn't seem possible that the Others can be a red herring.

However, I do wonder whether GRRM will be able to effectively pull off the events he's laid out. As other posters have noted, he's juggling a lot of balls. But with the Others, it's more like shooting a rocket out of sight and then juggling some other balls waiting for it to come down. The fact that the Others have been there from the beginning but have been hardly present since could cause trouble with pacing if we've really only got two books left.

[Natasi]

I'd be disappointed if the Others were a red herring. I've been steadily waiting for an ice zombie apocalypse for some time now. Even if their motivations turn out differently from the obvious expectation.

I think the Others are only a red herring in the characters' minds, as someone already concluded. We, the reader, are privy to the truth. It's more fun for me to read about political squabbles when I know that all of it will become inconsequential in the end.