A Notable Casting

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

By mid to late season 5 we will be seeing TWOW material. Im not happy about it, but what ya gonna do?

Nothing to do but hope that tWoW is out by then or they only get to one of the major battles... ( which is probably all they will get to)

The major thing we don't yet have in the show is the ToJ and the repeated "Promise me, Ned" thoughts in Eddard's head. We can still get the Knight of the Laughing Tree from the Reeds relatively when it should be.

Honestly I love the ToJ scene so much I think with some clever shooting they could pull it off in a Bran vision, but that requires getting Sean Bean back because casting a young Ned would just be seriously confusing and even in my own head Ned = Sean. I don't think shooting all of those things in a shorter period of time is all that bad, and certainly better than never touching on it at all. Having the ToJ be in S1E5 or whatever and then having the next clue in S4/5 is so far apart that it runs the risk of being too disjointed to put together. We don't really need the Dragon has three heads stuff, although that would be nice.

Ok I agree about Bran seeing it in a vision but probably just exposition between him and Jojen. Jojen could explain what happened since he's already seen it / knows about what happened.

That or you have Bran and Jojen talk about the "dream" kinda like you had Bran and Osha talk about the "ocean flooding Winterfell dream" sure it would've been great to actually see that dream, but that would be a lot of money blown on CGI.

I mean we didn't even get Sean Bean in the Crypts S1E10 when Bran and Rickon dreamed it.

I agree a lot of the best scenes involve two people in a room talking, and it can be an effective way to deliver backstory. Jon and Maester Aemon scenes in season 1 for example - I loved Aemon's speech to Jon about duty, not just cause they slipped in some backstory regarding the murder of Rhaegar's children.

And of course, the Jaime-Brienne scene in season 3 was brilliant. Only trouble is how well the audience retains important information when it's being delivered to them through dialogue rather then backstory.

That's basically how I remember seeing it in the books, there was a couple hints I think, like from the House of the Undying Vision, but I didn't figure out how close KL was to burning until the chapter with Jaime and Brienne in the bath.

[Myrddin]

So, basically, they want Bran plugged into the tree before the actor is taller than Hodor. :)

Actually, I see a lot of potential with moving up Bran's Greenseer training. Good move on D&D's part.

[protar]

@ protar

I don't necessarily think time is the issue, and it is definitely not the reason D&D decided against using flashbacks in the first place (since we know they shot some flashback sequences, and that they came in short on almost all of their episodes during the first season). I'd imagine it has a lot more to do with narrative clarity. This show follows so many characters, in so many different locations, and each of which is mostly its own story line among the multitude of other plot threads. Adding flashbacks into that equation could tip the scales towards complicating the show too much. This must have been a major concern early on, and I'm sure factored more into their decision than the screen time they would eat up. The logistical issues with the actors (and the budget) is also one that would have been a pretty big concern, as you mentioned yourself. Martin has said that there will be no need for a book about Robert's Rebellion by the time A Song of Ice & Fire is completed, so I have to assume that these events and characters from the past will play an important role in the future of both the book series and the television show. Choosing Bran to be the conduit through which the past is explored works perfectly, because it allows them to show these events at a time when they may be more relevant to what's happening within the narrative, and because Bran simply doesn't have the material that nearly every other main character in this series does going forward (but, fortuitously, has the ability to see the past among other talents). The only thing I think that has truly been missed was the Tower of Joy. I can't recall any other past event that I feel needed to be in the show, at this point, that hasn't already been alluded to or discussed in 'real time'.

Again, I'm not saying that Bran's visions are a bad idea. I think that in this current - otherwise flashbackless iteration of the show they're the best means of getting some backstory in.

However I disagree that flashbacks would make things more confusing. As it is we already needed a fair bit of exposition on RR's in season one anyway for events to make sense. But how many people actually understood all of what went on? I'd argue that showing events via flashbacks would make things clearer for the audience than just talking about things. It's a well established fact that we learn better when we're shown than when we're told.

ETA: But anyway, it's a moot point: They chose not to use flashbacks, and it worked well enough. Introducing them now without some suitable frame work like the Weirnet would just seem clunky and weird.

[Padraig]

. It's a well established fact that we learn better when we're shown than when we're told.

In general, yes but everything depends on context. The 3 scenes that people really wanted was the ToJ, Brandon's death and Aerys death. All those 3 are not simple flashbacks, which could be easily understood. Saying Ned's brother is killed is a lot simpler than showing how he died. Similarly, everyone knows that Jaime is the Kingslayer. You don't need to show that. While you did need Jaime to say the line "by what right does the wolf judge the line". That couldn't be "shown".

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

While you did need Jaime to say the line "by what right does the wolf judge the line". That couldn't be "shown".

"By what right does the Wolf judge the Lion" is what I thought the line was. maybe they should've shown it since I got it wrong.

[DarkAndFullOfTurnips]

"By what right does the Wolf judge the Lion" is what I thought the line was. maybe they should've shown it since I got it wrong.

They did...Wait shown what? Jaime killing Aerys?

[Padraig]

WiDMNDBAMMD was wittily pointing out that I spelling "Lion" wrong. :) That's all.

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

WiDMNDBAMMD was wittily pointing out that I spelling "Lion" wrong. :) That's all.

Honestly I had to watch the episode again to be sure.

[Professional Dragonslayer]

Honestly I had to watch the episode again to be sure.

http://youtu.be/PTxjGUh5oOM

[geogus]

Bran's the perfect character to explore backstory and past events ! And from now on, he has a lot of free time to do so !

Maybe they could recast Eddard and Roberto to show glimpses of the war of the usurper and, most importan, the tower of joy

[binga]

It doesn't count as a flashback if from the perspective of one character it is occurring in real time in the present.

[Ted Chang]

I suspect they want to finish of Bran's story whilst he still looks young enough to be plausible.

[Conchobar]

can't believe there are no trailers yet. For S4.

[Arkash]

We wont get any real trailer til the end of January !

Maybe a teaser with a voice-over during December and some pictures in January but nothing more.

What I'm really expecting are all the featurettes behind the scenes at MGoT !

[Conchobar]

I wanna see what OBeryn looks like already!

[Annara Snow]

Also there are things that work in the books that very likely won't work in the show like Coldhand and Lady Stoneheart. If Coldhand is Benjen Stark the show can't hide the identity of the character the same way they couldn't do it with Barristan Selmy.

Why wouldn't Lady Stoneheart work in the show?!

IMO there's no way they're not going to have Michelle playing LS.

That would mean that the next two seasons not only will cover "half" of Storm of Swords but most of DwDs and FFCs as well.

That would also mean that in one and a half years HBO will start showing episodes with Winds of Winter material in them.

The clock is ticking much faster than some people want to admit.

The books are not chronological, therefore they have to include some of AFFC and ADWD plot lines in season 4 - but only for those characters who don't appear in the second part of ASOS (Theon, Ramsey, probably, Roose, definitely, considering the casting of Fat Walda), have very little to do in it (Bran, Dany) or have already reached the extent of their ASOS story (Brienne).

The other storylines will get stretched out a bit - that's why we get the Vale lords introduced earlier (I think Lysa will still be murdered at or near the end of the season, but there will be more scenes between her and Sansa, her and LF - with their backstory introduced a bit more gradually rather than suddenly dumped on us in two of Lysa's speeches to Sansa), her and SR - the viewers need to be re-introduced to her, and to be introduced to the Vale lords who will play a bigger role in the next seasons. I have no doubt that they will expand Oberyn's and Ellaria's roles as much as possible (due to his popularity and the casting of a relatively well known TV actress as Ellaria) and have them interract with Cersei etc. and show things outside of Tyrion's and Jaime's POV. And we already know that the Wall storyline will end the same as in the book - it's the brunt of the second part of ASOS and there's a lot of material there, and we know that they're expanding on it by going back to the Craster's Keep.

Things left for season 5 will include: the introduction of Dorne and Dornish characters who haven't been to KL (Doran, Arianne, Quentyn, etc.), the Kingsmoot and introduction of the Greyjoy brothers, as well as Arya in Braavos, Jon's and Dany's storylines (or at least some of it) from ADWD, all the KL stuff with Cersei and Margaery, Jaime in the Riverlands, Sansa's storyline in Vale after Lysa's death - probably extended...

Season 6 will be the real issue - how much of AFFC/ADWD will be covered already? But D&D have no doubt read the chapters GRRM has already written for WoW and know the synopsis. By the time it airs, it will be 2016. Maybe (hopefully) WoW will have been released by then...?

I'm not entirely convinced the Unsullied R+L=J theories are legit. There simply hasn't been enough information for anyone to come up with that theory and to get major traction with others.

And I disagree that hints couldn't have been dropped earlier. Firstly, they could in fact have had flashbacks to the rebellion. That would have made the information less expositional and more exciting. It would have stuck in people's minds.

I don't know if any Unsullied have been able to come up with R+L=J on their own based on the show, but I know at least one Unsullied who has guessed that Ned is not Jon's father, based on Ned's characterization alone, and have been speculating that Ned was keeping his real parentage a secret and that there's some big epic story behind that.

[Hand of the Hand]

I am really starting to worry about the show catching up to the books now...

I don't think there's anything to worry about. Executive producer Frank Doelger is the guy who revealed that HBO plan 7 or 8 seasons. So season 4 airs 2014, which means season 7 airs 2017. That gives GRRM fours to complete TWoW. Season 8 of Thrones will probably be timed to coincide with the launch of ADoS, so there might be a tense hiatus and huge build-up of excitement for the final novel/season.

[Conchobar]

I don't think there's anything to worry about. Executive producer Frank Doelger is the guy who revealed that HBO plan 7 or 8 seasons. So season 4 airs 2014, which means season 7 airs 2017. That gives GRRM fours to complete TWoW. Season 8 of Thrones will probably be timed to coincide with the launch of ADoS, so there might be a tense hiatus and huge build-up of excitement for the final novel/season.

yeah you're probably right, well you have soothed my worry anyway Is that the Red Hand of O' Neill in your avatar??

[WiDMNDBAMMD]

Why wouldn't Lady Stoneheart work in the show?!

IMO there's no way they're not going to have Michelle playing LS.

1. LS cheapens the death factor in the show.

2. Beric doesn't make his promise on his honor as a knight to re-unite Arya with her mother. Harwin doesn't exist to point out that Beric made this promise and it appears that Thoros has to say some words that Beric cannot hear instead of giving him "the kiss"

If the show follows the mistake of the books and has LS, then yes, MF should play her.

The books are not chronological,

My signature says almost as much.

therefore they have to include some of AFFC and ADWD plot lines in season 4 - but only for those characters who don't appear in the second part of ASOS (Theon, Ramsey, probably, Roose, definitely, considering the casting of Fat Walda), have very little to do in it (Bran, Dany) or have already reached the extent of their ASOS story (Brienne).

Brienne story changed, Bran's ASOS finished. I'd expect them to get into stuff covered in DwD with Theon, like stuff that is "currently" happening in that book not his flashbacks.

Dany will get into her DWD material this season, hopefully she'll conclude it next season.

The other storylines will get stretched out a bit - that's why we get the Vale lords introduced earlier (I think Lysa will still be murdered at or near the end of the season, but there will be more scenes between her and Sansa, her and LF - with their backstory introduced a bit more gradually rather than suddenly dumped on us in two of Lysa's speeches to Sansa), her and SR - the viewers need to be re-introduced to her, and to be introduced to the Vale lords who will play a bigger role in the next seasons. I have no doubt that they will expand Oberyn's and Ellaria's roles as much as possible (due to his popularity and the casting of a relatively well known TV actress as Ellaria) and have them interract with Cersei etc. and show things outside of Tyrion's and Jaime's POV. And we already know that the Wall storyline will end the same as in the book - it's the brunt of the second part of ASOS and there's a lot of material there, and we know that they're expanding on it by going back to the Craster's Keep.

Things left for season 5 will include: the introduction of Dorne and Dornish characters who haven't been to KL (Doran, Arianne, Quentyn, etc.), the Kingsmoot and introduction of the Greyjoy brothers, as well as Arya in Braavos, Jon's and Dany's storylines (or at least some of it) from ADWD, all the KL stuff with Cersei and Margaery, Jaime in the Riverlands, Sansa's storyline in Vale after Lysa's death - probably extended...

Season 6 will be the real issue - how much of AFFC/ADWD will be covered already? But D&D have no doubt read the chapters GRRM has already written for WoW and know the synopsis. By the time it airs, it will be 2016. Maybe (hopefully) WoW will have been released by then...?

By season 6 everything in FFC and DwDs will be covered. Think about it, each book takes about a season except for SoS. So season 4,5 and 6 will easily cover everything in FFCs and DwDs.

I don't know if any Unsullied have been able to come up with R+L=J on their own based on the show, but I know at least one Unsullied who has guessed that Ned is not Jon's father, based on Ned's characterization alone, and have been speculating that Ned was keeping his real parentage a secret and that there's some big epic story behind that.

It doesn't take much, I figured it out from reading the first book after marathoning the first two seasons twice in a row.

[franko99]

1. LS cheapens the death factor in the show.

2. Beric doesn't make his promise on his honor as a knight to re-unite Arya with her mother. Harwin doesn't exist to point out that Beric made this promise and it appears that Thoros has to say some words that Beric cannot hear instead of giving him "the kiss"

If the show follows the mistake of the books and has LS, then yes, MF should play her.

esn't take much, I figured it out from reading the first book after marathoning the first two seasons twice in a row.

LS is one of my least favorite characters, and I agree with 1, but I won't call it a mistake untill the serie is over, and we know what part LS play in the big picture, there is a reason why GRRM take the time to writte his story that way