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Sansa's age and appearance


Lady Howell

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In westeros people age at quicker rates? On earth many years ago people used to age quicker because they died quicker, so hDr being 14 may be equivalent to us being 18?

dude people muttered faster and assumed responsibility at an early age because it was kind of necessary for society... but their bodies didn't phsyically age faster.. people just died earlier because of disease and general unsanitary conditions. and people were still able to grow up to be older. life expectancy was just low because so many people died young from illness.

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No its not. Sadly, to that last sentence and watch you language. You'll never win an argument by being offensive and using crude words.

Every kid thinks that he/she is the smartest person on the planet, but its natural and part of growing up. Wisdom believe it or not, does come with age. Sooner or later it has to come knocking on your door too.

p.s. I also read and watched stuff that was not suited my age when I was a teen, curiosity is a big part of human nature. In hindsight, I know I shouldn't have done it...but yeah, as I said wisdom comes with age. Wisdom, not just an intellectual capacity to read a book and get its basic meaning.

You're making some rather inflated generalizations, and you sound completely patronizing.

That's ironic given that you're attempting to communicate your ostensibly wiser and more mature perspective to somebody.

Believe it or not but your words are more likely to find purchase in someone's mind if you don't litter them with condescending rhetoric. Everybody with an age advantage thinks they hold all the answers, but that's just a natural illusion of growing up. Eventually the truth will find its way to you, it always does.

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No its not. Sadly, to that last sentence and watch you language. You'll never win an argument by being offensive and using crude words.

... Perhaps, you will be kind enough to point out where exactly I was trying to be offensive or where I was using crude words (unless you are talking about the word "bullshit" which I do not consider crude since there is actually an emoticon on this board to express just that). In fact I was being very polite since I didn't make any remarks on your level of maturity based on your use of capslock and your condescending tone. So, perhaps you should do a little bit of soulsearching before you accuse someone else of being offensive.

And for what it's worth the fact that my generation and the current stock of 14 and 15 year olds have a lot more experience with graphic content isn't necessarly a bad thing. If you want to be a well-informed, active participant of society you need to be prepared to confront some pretty graphic imagery and all of that is a lot less shocking then what is described in ASOIAF (e.g. Film footage of the Syrian victims of chemical attacks is a whole lot more disturbing than what you find in the novels).

Every kid thinks that he/she is the smartest person on the planet, but its natural and part of growing up. Wisdom believe it or not, does come with age. Sooner or later it has to come knocking on your door too.

... And tell me where exactly did I speak against this? Of course wisdom and other intelectual capacities increase when you get older, but that doesn't change the fact that some people are a lot quicker in picking these things up then others. We are all different and thus we should all make out for ourselves whether or not we are able to read and comprehend these novels. Generic statements like the one you made in your first post are therefore uncalled for and plainly wrong.

And by the way you'll never win an argument by being offensive. So, take care of not being condescending towards other people. A "wise" poster once told me that.

p.s. I also read and watched stuff that was not suited my age when I was a teen, curiosity is a big part of human nature. In hindsight, I know I shouldn't have done it...but yeah, as I said wisdom comes with age. Wisdom, not just an intellectual capacity to read a book and get its basic meaning.

So, basically what you're saying is, if I wasn't ready for it at that age then nobody is. Completely ignoring the fact that we all have separate identities and backgrounds, which might make some of us more capable of taking on the daunting task of trying to sift some deeper meaning from out of these books.

Oh, and for what it's worth look at this series. There are loads of young characters who are clearly shown to be wise. Often even wiser than some of the older characters (Young Maester Aemon, Bran, Jojen, Sansa,...). Of course the opposite is also found and we have young characters making less than wise decisions, but that yet again shows that wisdom and intellectual maturity does not manifest in each of us in the same way. Some never achieve it, others almost immediatly get it.

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How did this thread become about what age range is appropriate for starting to read Asoiaf?

I dont know but i understand Veltigar's anger. Id be pretty cheesed off if someone told me i shouldnt have read Anne Rice at 12. Its like, "bite me." ya know?

ANYWAY, back to Sansa, shes a beauty to begin with, but a preteen when the series starts. People take notice because she is a girl with a very famous name and a pretty face. Littlefinger leers at her because she reminds him of Cat. Tyrion battles with his sexual monster and reasoning when looking at Sansa on their wedding night. The Hound is attracted to her innocence. But now, shes growing up (still not described as curvy) and shes even taking notice. Just like how Arya notices her legs are longer and some people in Braavos are commenting on her face.

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I dont know but i understand Veltigar's anger. Id be pretty cheesed off if someone told me i shouldnt have read Anne Rice at 12. Its like, "bite me." ya know?

ANYWAY, back to Sansa, shes a beauty to begin with, but a preteen when the series starts. People take notice because she is a girl with a very famous name and a pretty face. Littlefinger leers at her because she reminds him of Cat. Tyrion battles with his sexual monster and reasoning when looking at Sansa on their wedding night. The Hound is attracted to her innocence. But now, shes growing up (still not described as curvy) and shes even taking notice. Just like how Arya notices her legs are longer and some people in Braavos are commenting on her face.

Sounds reasonable.

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I don't remember people commenting on her curves. It is her height, hair and face they seem to notice. By 13 most girls are starting to have the look they will keep for their teen years and people will notice their looks. Plus as a girl it is the type of thing that will be politely commented on (what a pretty daughter you have) from quite a young age.



Some men make crude remarks about deflowering her when Petyr has has dinner with the Vale lords but thats almost standard response to a bastard girl who would often have no-one to protect her and is assumed to be fair game to an extent; it doesn't mean she is overflowing with hormones.


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Didn't Myranda Royce comment that Sansa's curves were ample for her age but not ridiculously huge?

Plus she is hardly going to insult her. Basically she is saying 'unlike me you have a more petite figure, but quite adequate, my dear'. Given Sansa is passing as slightly older I think we can assume she looks like a 13-14 year old.

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I think back in the day when people died and aged quicker, they didn't really age like, you're twelve but you look 16, but you got worn down faster by your environment. Like wrinkles and grey hair came faster, not puberty, which I'm pretty sure came around the same age range it does now.

No, people grew at the same rate as now - peasant girls even had their menarche later than in modern times due nutrition. It's just that child mortality was astronomical and even surviving through it meant people were overall far more likely to die for things we now cure with antibiotics, let alone modern health care.

But if someone avoided all that and was able to reach an old age in a reasonable healthy condition, that person would die of old age pretty much around the same age as of today.

Actually, irl, people used to hit puberty later than they do now. It's really only post industrial revolution that girls get periods before 15. But if i can suspend disbelief for decade long summers...

Peasants did, due nutrition. Rich girls hit puberty at around the same age as today because they were well fed.

Either a lot of men in the series are suddenly pedophiles or Sansa is starting to look more like an adult, I'd say.

Well, given how Jorah fell in love with Danny, Drogo found her a desirable wife; Arya was threatened to be raped (by a woman); and Sansa was almost raped by a mob, the Hound and Marillion; Westerosi attitude to statutory rape don't exactly fit modern standards.

In my mind "paedophilia" sound as people raping prepubescent kids. In Westeros, that means Lyn Corbay and the Harrenhall servant who threatened to rape Arya with a stick if the Lannisters got the castle back. And that's in a whole different level than the penetration of/by teenagers who are developing secondary sexual characterics, which is still morally reprehensible and illegal in most countries. Just in case, no, this is not an endorsement of statutory rape.

I feel stupid for asking but does menarche normally coincide with the development of secondary sexual characteristics? Because I personally had mine at ten but didn't need a bra till I was fifteen.

I would feel stupid if I am wrong, but they usually happen by the same time: secondary sexual characteristics begin to develop and the menarche comes around that time

As for Sansa's body, I don't think it's ever referred as adult-like. She's developing and have big breasts for her age and has a pretty face, which is independent of secondary sexual characteristics. Tyrion thinks she still has a child's body by the time of their wedding. Does it mean all the men who made any action to grope, kiss or penetrate her are creeps? Definitely. And given GRRM's words on how maidens younger than 16 can be bedded but it's not usually done, in large measure due the higher risk of dying giving birth, they are not doing the kind of thing they'll tell their friends hoping they'd get congratulated.

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You are TOO YOUNG TO BE READING ASOIAF!!! Wait a couple of years. You'll understand it better and be of an appropriate age to take in all the graphic stuff.

It's sad that about 35-40% of registered users here are kids between 12-15.

Hmph. The books are written in a way that they can be enjoyed on several levels, and young teens can certainly get a lot of enjoyment out of them, and a lot of "age-appropriate", books are real dreck. Younger folk should just read realizing that there is a lot more to the books than first appears, so a re-read or two after gaining life experience will be rewarding.

35 to 40% of forum members are 12 to 15? Where did this come from? You realize that 85% of statistics are made up, don't you?

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I've heard of girls that age hitting puberty and getting crazy curves, going from string bean to hourglass: big breasts, curvy hips, the whole nine yards. Seems to happen more often these days as opposed to the ASOIAF equivalent time--there's some evidence to suggest that on average girls tend to be hitting puberty much earlier than they once did--but it definitely happens. From what I understand, it's not fun for the girls in question, as they often get vicious sexual harassment for having an "adult figure."



With that said, I was never under the impression that Sansa had Jessica Rabbit-type proportions. She develops more curves than she once had (Sandor remarks in ACOK on her breasts, she mentions her clothes not fitting her, guys ogle her, etc.), but since young girls don't have any curves at all, that doesn't mean much.


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Hmph. The books are written in a way that they can be enjoyed on several levels, and young teens can certainly get a lot of enjoyment out of them, and a lot of "age-appropriate", books are real dreck. Younger folk should just read realizing that there is a lot more to the books than first appears, so a re-read or two after gaining life experience will be rewarding.

35 to 40% of forum members are 12 to 15? Where did this come from? You realize that 85% of statistics are made up, don't you?

This.

Most people here seem to be in their 20s at the very least.

Lots of older people on these boards too.

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I thought the average age range of members here was 20-70? In fact, its not everyday i bump into a teenager here. Am i shocked to bump into one? No.





With that said, I was never under the impression that Sansa had Jessica Rabbit-type proportions. She develops more curves than she once had (Sandor remarks in ACOK on her breasts, she mentions her clothes not fitting her, guys ogle her, etc.), but since young girls don't have any curves at all, that doesn't mean much.



Sansa appears to be developing on a pretty average level. Shes getting out of her awkward phase (although its tenuous to guess if she had an awkward phase to begin with) now that shes about 13. Arya is about 12 and her awkward phase is happening. The Stark girls seem to be growing at a relatively normal rate. Sansa may get big bosoms because her mum had a mighty bosom.



It looks to me that Dany was the early bloomer. She petite but by the time we met her (at age 13), she looked pretty womanly.


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I'm pretty sure that during her wedding that her dress/corset was fitted to give her a fuller figure as well. Sansa mentions guys ogling her as she grows breasts, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she has ridiculous proportions- the type of clothing she wore likely emphasized and enhanced the curves she did have.


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Goodness me this is an offensive thread, have you paused to think that actually many many women are curvy and womanly at a young age?? Some of us were wearing bras at 9 love!

I'm a grown up so I'll be gentle but frankly dear it is hard enough for young women who grow "large" breasts younger than is socially accepted without threads like this one.

Having big breasts can plague your life, people make all manor of assumptions about you, you are subjected to a great deal of street harassment and judgement and it shapes your self view when people view you as "freakish" and an oddity.

A D cup is so subjective its all in relation to the back size if you measure 28 " around your ribs you can have the exact same breast volume as someone who measures 34" and be 3 cup sizes bigger. breast size is not as simple as C cup B cup D cup love. And yes we don't all grow at the same rate. Pet hate subject of mine as is probably obvious. Jeez get over it. We are all built individually. try to put yourself in the shoes of the girl who starts her period at 11 and needed a bra from 9. and ask yourself how the comments people make would affect you at that age or how you would have dealt with a post such as this if you have been made to feel your body is an offense. Or had men and boys calling you names and harassing you in the street based solely on the fact you grew boobs before it was socially acceptable.

i knew a rather thin girl growing up with the same problem she ended up getting a reduction surgery done at 18-20 not real sure.

No person is the same were all different.

And Gods if i had a 15 year old daughter i dont think i would let her read this story

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I feel stupid for asking but does menarche normally coincide with the development of secondary sexual characteristics? Because I personally had mine at ten but didn't need a bra till I was fifteen.

well personally I developed boobs (real one, 32 B cup) at 9 but didn't menstruate for like 3 more years, by then I was a 34D. I wasn't fat either. I had the same waist size as most girls in my class. I also was a bit hippier than most girls. By 10 I was able to get into PG-13 movies without a parent, by 14 R rated movies. I did have a baby face (still get told I do) but big boobs helped :)

also to the person saying the OP poster is "way too young" for the material, all caps, that's pretty condescending IMO. I read and watched plenty of graphic stuff at 13-15 and I'm totally well adjusted. Never killed a puppy or anything.

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I actually never had a problem with Sansa looking more mature at the age of 12 or 13. The only time I remember her body being described in any real detail is in ACOK where drunken Sandor is talking about how she has gotten curvier, taller and her breasts are growing. I took this to mean that it is a noticeable change but nothing too major.



I have no problem envisioning Sansa as beautiful girl with a young woman's body, it seems pretty normal to me. I envision Sansa as a friend I used to have when I was around 13(we were the same age). astonishingly beautiful girl, much taller than I was, with blue eyes and long black hair and she could easily be mistaken for a girl of 15 or 16. She would tell me how older men would stare at her and it freaked her out.



Personally I have more trouble envisioning Dany as a pregnant 13/14 year old with a 30 year old husband and a 45 year old bear drooling over her.


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