Howdyphillip Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 If we want to have defending champions like boxing and wrestling we also need to be able to challenge at any time. Oregon should be able to schedule a bout and Alabama has to answer or forfeit.Since it's not like that and last years team isn't this years team, it doesn't matter that Alabama won.I agree with this in principle, yet I still can't wait for an SEC team to be led to the altar as a slaughtering lamb. If Alabama keeps a clean sheet this year, I think that either Oregon or FSU will do it. Speaking of which, What do you think the chances are of FSU leapfrogging Oregon, or either team to jump past Alabama if they all win out? It looks like they are all really close in the poll numbers. When the computers get involved in the BCS poll, Alabama may actually fall put. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 I agree with this in principle, yet I still can't wait for an SEC team to be led to the altar as a slaughtering lamb. If Alabama keeps a clean sheet this year, I think that either Oregon or FSU will do it. Speaking of which, What do you think the chances are of FSU leapfrogging Oregon, or either team to jump past Alabama if they all win out? It looks like they are all really close in the poll numbers. When the computers get involved in the BCS poll, Alabama may actually fall put. I would assume that if Oregon, FSU and Alabama all go undefeated that the majority of voters will continue to support Alabama at #1 (as they do now). This will be enough to keep them in the top 2 in spite of being much worse in the computer rankings than FSU/Oregon. If Oregon wins out, they'll be ahead of FSU because they'll probably have more quality wins since the PAC12 is deeper and stronger than the ACC, and a lot more people like Oregon than FSU. Although the latter may not stick, because it is possible that FSU could finish the regular season undefeated with wins @Clemson, @ Florida, Miami at home, and VTech (neutral site). That would be a pretty impressive regular season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterOJ Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 This anti-SEC circle jerk is just cute. :) In other news, Missouri quarterback Maty Mauk is awesome. Happy Mauktober to all y'all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Ah. I see the NCAA handed down rewards to Miami today. Congratulations, Miami, the NCAA really appreciates your cooperation, enjoy your prostitutes, have some more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H von T Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Because what they did the year before is completley independent from this year. Oregon and FSU will have played signfiicantly tougher schedules.I'll concede that Oregon's schedule is slightly tougher than Alabama's, but FSU's schedule is nothing to crow about. Their big games are Clemson, Miami, and Florida. According to your line of thinking Florida is evidence of SEC mediocrity but makes FSU's schedule significantly tough. The only reason Florida lost to Miami is the offense kept turning the ball over. Don't get me wrong, I think FSU is very good this year and will destroy the Gators in November. If Alabama wins out, they should be in the championship game. I hope they play Oregon because that will be a fantastic game. Most people here are writing off Alabama, but give me Saban over a first year head coach like Helfrich any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 yeah, Saban will probably demolish Helfrich. 38-13 sort of game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 yeah, Saban will probably demolish Helfrich. 38-13 sort of game He did a great job of shutting down Manziel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperry Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I'll concede that Oregon's schedule is slightly tougher than Alabama's, but FSU's schedule is nothing to crow about. Their big games are Clemson, Miami, and Florida. According to your line of thinking Florida is evidence of SEC mediocrity but makes FSU's schedule significantly tough. The only reason Florida lost to Miami is the offense kept turning the ball over. Don't get me wrong, I think FSU is very good this year and will destroy the Gators in November.If Alabama wins out, they should be in the championship game. I hope they play Oregon because that will be a fantastic game. Most people here are writing off Alabama, but give me Saban over a first year head coach like Helfrich any day. You are correct that FSU's schedule is not "significantly" better, although Oregon's really is miles ahead of Bamas. FSU's is better though, and the fact is that there won't even be a debate whether Bama belongs in the game if they go undefeated. It will simply be, "who gets the second spot." This is what is frustrating, and represents everything that is wrong with the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterOJ Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 You are correct that FSU's schedule is not "significantly" better, although Oregon's really is miles ahead of Bamas. By what measure? Sagarin ratings have Alabama's schedule ranked 43rd. Oregon ranks 68th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLU-RAY Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 The Sagarin ratings are to this point; I think Sperry is talking about all 12 games. Alabama has the #11 and #13 teams left (Auburn and LSU), plus Tennessee (who Oregon eviscerated), Mississippi St (who are really bad), and fuckin' Chattanooga. Oregon has UCLA, Stanford, and Oregon St left (the #6, #12; and #25 teams) as well as Utah (who are solid, though not particularly great) and Arizona (not particularly good, but they can score). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaramyrSixchins Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 You are correct that FSU's schedule is not "significantly" better, although Oregon's really is miles ahead of Bamas. FSU's is better though, and the fact is that there won't even be a debate whether Bama belongs in the game if they go undefeated. It will simply be, "who gets the second spot." This is what is frustrating, and represents everything that is wrong with the system.I dunno, I think that if a reigning champion in ANY organized competition did exactly what it was SUPPOSED to do--i.e. win every time it competed--& DIDN'T get a chance to defend the title, it would be fundamentally unfair. I can't think of any precedent for that scenaro in CFB or any other sport. I think this is especially true in a sport like CFB where the judgements of who is best derive from so many subjective factors, like opinion polls. Winning is everything, & if the defending champs haven't been knocked off, why should they be expected to step aside? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VaramyrSixchins Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 If we want to have defending champions like boxing and wrestling we also need to be able to challenge at any time. Oregon should be able to schedule a bout and Alabama has to answer or forfeit. Since it's not like that and last years team isn't this years team, it doesn't matter that Alabama won.I agree that last year isn't this year, the argument I'm trying to make is that in a scenario wherein FSU, Oregon, & Bama all go undefeated, the fact that Bama did everything that was required of them should be enough, as reigning champs, to earn them the right to defend it. In that scenario anyone claiming as "fact" that FSU and Oregon are BOTH better than Bama would have to rely on a host of subjective information & reasoning, while conveniently ignoring a really pertinant fact: The fucking champions never lost, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterOJ Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 The Sagarin ratings are to this point; I think Sperry is talking about all 12 games. Alabama has the #11 and #13 teams left (Auburn and LSU), plus Tennessee (who Oregon eviscerated), Mississippi St (who are really bad), and fuckin' Chattanooga. Oregon has UCLA, Stanford, and Oregon St left (the #6, #12; and #25 teams) as well as Utah (who are solid, though not particularly great) and Arizona (not particularly good, but they can score). I get that the Sagarin ratings are just to this point. But at this point, Alabama is miles ahead of Oregon in strength of schedule. Now, looking at the back end, Oregon will certainly make up ground, and may very well finish ahead of Alabama in terms of strength of schedule. To say that Oregon's schedule is miles ahead of Alabama is just silliness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I get that the Sagarin ratings are just to this point. But at this point, Alabama is miles ahead of Oregon in strength of schedule. Now, looking at the back end, Oregon will certainly make up ground, and may very well finish ahead of Alabama in terms of strength of schedule. To say that Oregon's schedule is miles ahead of Alabama is just silliness. I would also point out that Ole Miss seems to be improving and Bama's schedule could actually be considered stronger in retrospect at the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferrum Aeternum Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I would also point out that Ole Miss seems to be improving and Bama's schedule could actually be considered stronger in retrospect at the end of the season. Speaking of which, Sagarin has Ole Miss as #1 in SoS thus far in the season, which is difficult for anyone to argue. In successive weeks we played the #1, #11, #14 and #13 teams. Thankfully it lightens up a bit from here on out, though we still have Mizzou (#5) in a few weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greywolf2375 Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I agree that last year isn't this year, the argument I'm trying to make is that in a scenario wherein FSU, Oregon, & Bama all go undefeated, the fact that Bama did everything that was required of them should be enough, as reigning champs, to earn them the right to defend it. In that scenario anyone claiming as "fact" that FSU and Oregon are BOTH better than Bama would have to rely on a host of subjective information & reasoning, while conveniently ignoring a really pertinant fact: The fucking champions never lost, lol. The bolded part is the part that is immaterial though. if Oregon and FSU win out, against tougher competiition and do it convincingly, they should be the ones in the NCG because the fact that a team won last year does not give them a bye into the game this year. The same team is not defending the title - the school name may be, but the team is not the same. And, frankly, even if it was, it would still be irrelevant. If by the end of the year Bama has trainwrecked everyone and proven they are one of the top two teams, fine - they earned it based on play this year. if by the end of the year Oregon and FSU have proven to be the better teams - even if Bama wins out - then they deserve to be there. "Legacy" is only for the trophy case, not the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I said it in a previous thread and I'll repeat it again here. Ric Flair always had the best line for this "To be the man, you gotta beat the man." Well, the SEC is the man. If we were talking about years ago when the national title bounced between Miami in the ACC, tOSU in the Big Ten, Oklahoma in the Big XII, USC in the Pac Ten, and LSU in the SEC; then I would agree that you have to just take the two teams regardless of past considerations. But the "SEC IS KING" momentum is too big to ignore. The last seven titles have come from the SEC (three of those from the aforementioned Crimson Tide). If I'm FSU or Oregon I want to take down Alabama to give an air of legitimacy to my title. No boxer wants to win a vacated belt. They want to take down the champ. In a vacuum, everything Greywolf and others say is absolutely true. In reality and surrounded by the flapping gums of the sports media culture of today, you need Bama in that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalbear Posted October 23, 2013 Author Share Posted October 23, 2013 Eh. I don't. That all assumes that the system to get them the championship is legit. It isn't. I want the two best teams in the championship. There's a fair bit of evidence to suggest Alabama isn't one of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MisterOJ Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 The bolded part is the part that is immaterial though. if Oregon and FSU win out, against tougher competiition and do it convincingly, they should be the ones in the NCG because the fact that a team won last year does not give them a bye into the game this year. The same team is not defending the title - the school name may be, but the team is not the same. And, frankly, even if it was, it would still be irrelevant. If by the end of the year Bama has trainwrecked everyone and proven they are one of the top two teams, fine - they earned it based on play this year. if by the end of the year Oregon and FSU have proven to be the better teams - even if Bama wins out - then they deserve to be there. "Legacy" is only for the trophy case, not the field.Here's the thing though - FSU doesn't have tougher competition than Alabama. Right now, they are practically even in strength of schedule. And down the stretch, FSU has two remaining quality opponents - Miami, ranked 20 by Sagarin, and Florida (19th). The rest of the schedule is NC State (90th), Wake Forest (78th), Syracuse (77th) and Idaho (170th). Alabama has Tennessee (45th), LSU (6th), Mississippi State (51st), Chattanooga (125th) and Auburn (23rd). PLUS the SEC championship game. If Alabama, FSU and Oregon all win out - Alabama and Oregon will have played the two hardest schedules among those three. ETA: Eh. I don't. That all assumes that the system to get them the championship is legit. It isn't.I want the two best teams in the championship. There's a fair bit of evidence to suggest Alabama isn't one of them. What evidence would that be? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Here's the thing though - FSU doesn't have tougher competition than Alabama. Right now, they are practically even in strength of schedule. And down the stretch, FSU has two remaining quality opponents - Miami, ranked 20 by Sagarin, and Florida (19th). The rest of the schedule is NC State (90th), Wake Forest (78th), Syracuse (77th) and Idaho (170th). Alabama has Tennessee (45th), LSU (6th), Mississippi State (51st), Chattanooga (125th) and Auburn (23rd). PLUS the SEC championship game. If Alabama, FSU and Oregon all win out - Alabama and Oregon will have played the two hardest schedules among those three. ETA: What evidence would that be? I think you can expect Auburn and Tennessee to rise in those rankings as well. They'll also get a quality opponent in the SEC Championship game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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