Lummel Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I don't think that Daenerys is becoming evil or turning to the Dark Side, rather as with Tyrion the 'darker' elements in her character are there from AGOT. By darker I mean the resort to violence. What changes is that she gets bigger and more destructive tools in her toolbox but the motivation is the same - a desire to correct injustice and to side with the abused. The first problem is that the only tools in her tool box are violent ones - first three bloodriders and one knight, then she gets dragons, then she gets an army, the second problem is more troubling - how far are non-violent solutions to injustice achievable in GRRMworld and if any are are they only limited to specific situations when there is a wider preparedness to change. The issue with the resort to violence is that violence begets violence and Daenerys' attempts to avenge injustice unleash greater savagery. This starts in AGOT. Daenerys saves Eroeh and a few other from rape - by killing the rapists, but once Drogo is down then Eroeh is group raped and then killed. This is the same pattern we'll see in Astapor and Meereen. The problem is that the alternative is to accept the initial injustice and this is what sticks in Daenerys' craw with the peace deal in Meereen. However in terms of the ongoing storyline we should probably expect more destruction and violence partly because of the embrace of fire and blood at the close of ADWD by Daenerys but also because of the westerosi who are arriving to advise her. Tyrion wants vengeance and as we see in his thought about the poisoning the wells is channelling pure Tywin, Victarion is a man of the sword, even Marwyn has an axe to grind with the 'grey sheep' of the Citadel - given an opportunity would he purge the Citadel - how peaceful might that be? The issue is that Daenerys' hatred of injustice isn't wrong, although occasionally inappropriately targeted, rather can she or her people manage to find some way of accomplishing peaceful transformations that escape escalating cycles of violence. In systems terms the answer would be to disengage from conflict. Perhaps she has been strong enough at a couple of points and maybe so in the future that she doesn't have to resort to violence. Perhaps that means we probably should expect her to be an Aegon the Conqueror and all that implies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Yes to this. The thing with Tyrion helping Dany is they both are seeking revenge. Indeed a dark path. To be honest, if she enlists Tyrion, Moqorro, Victarion, and Marwyn in her service, I think they'd be like the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse towards the inhabitants of Essos and Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 To be honest, if she enlists Tyrion, Moqorro, Victarion, and Marwyn in her service, I think they'd be like the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse towards the inhabitants of Essos and Westeros.It will certainly look that way, that is until the true threat up north reveals itself. I doubt anyone will care about Dany hanging out with kinslayers, red priests, and ironborn if she helps fight the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Visenya Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 There are definate comparisons, their both whiny,annoying chumps who make bad decisions in their youth, it took getting his legs hacked off and nearly being burned to death to make Darth Vader awesome, I wonder what grizzly fate awaits Dany, although something like that happening to her would be awesome all on its own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeanF Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 All four would have very useful skills to offer her. Victarion is an able naval commander, with a fleet; Tyrion is a skilful political adviser; Marwyn can likely perform magic; Moqorro can offer her the adherence of R'hllor's followers across Essos, and would be instrumental in getting Volantis on her side. But, they're all pretty ruthless people. It will certainly look that way, that is until the true threat up north reveals itself. I doubt anyone will care about Dany hanging out with kinslayers, red priests, and ironborn if she helps fight the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 There are definate comparisons, their both whiny,annoying chumps who make bad decisions in their youth, it took getting his legs hacked off and nearly being burned to death to make Darth Vader awesome, I wonder what grizzly fate awaits Dany, although something like that happening to her would be awesome all on its own.She already had her transformation from meek, scared little girl, to full on badass conquerer. It happened in the end of AGoT when she walks into the pyre, and comes out mother of dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 If Dany is becoming Darth Vader, there must be a Palpatine. Also she must kill some younglings, which puts some of our favourite kids to danger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose The Weddingcrasher Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 It will certainly look that way, that is until the true threat up north reveals itself. I doubt anyone will care about Dany hanging out with kinslayers, red priests, and ironborn if she helps fight the others.So you think Dany and the murderers she gathers around her are less evil than the Others :D ? She already had her transformation from meek, scared little girl, to full on badass conquerer. It happened in the end of AGoT when she walks into the pyre, and comes out mother of dragons. More like a classical demonstration of why traumatized children develop some messed up personalities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKOpanther Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Loyalty order - Arya -> Sansa -> Cat -> Dany -> Brienne ->Mannis->Cersei...........................................-> Bran- > Jon ->..................................................->Tyrion ->Jaime. :) wow Cersei before Jaime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 wow Cersei before Jaime Cersei wayyyyyyyyy before Jaime. Jaime and Tyrion are the last ones I'd save on a sinking boat. Actually I'd not save them at all. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 More like a classical demonstration of why traumatized children develop some messed up personalities. I don't think she has a "messed up personality". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose The Weddingcrasher Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 I don't think she has a "messed up personality". You scare even me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nictarion Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 You scare even me.Says the guy with the Roose Bolton username. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RKOpanther Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Says the guy with the Roose Bolton username. Snap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose The Weddingcrasher Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Says the guy with the Roose Bolton username. Exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 More like a classical demonstration of why traumatized children develop some messed up personalities. Ani was a Skywalker he doesn't had messed up personality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myrish Swamp Thing Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Ani was a Skywalker he doesn't had messed up personality.He didn't? That's news to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mithras Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 If Dany is becoming Darth Vader, there must be a Palpatine. Also she must kill some younglings, which puts some of our favourite kids to danger. I think Quaithe may be Palpatine, sending visions to Dany and messing her up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon's Queen Consort Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 He didn't? That's news to me. Αni was a Skywalker. Yes he went to the dark side, but that is something that many Skywalkers after him had done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roose The Weddingcrasher Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Αni was a Skywalker. Yes he went to the dark side, but that is something that many Skywalkers after him had done. OMG - Spoiler?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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