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Small Questions v 10017


Stubby

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It seems the riverfront can be reached without crossing the River Gate. From aGoT Arya V

I guess it means the piers and the fishmarket are freely accessible, but not the road to leave the city.

So how come Stannis wasn't able to walk right in?
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Snip

Thank you for the Jaime passage. I've seen some of the artwork on Bobby B's hammer but it varys in every drawing.

Apparently Robert raped Cersei at some point and Cersei thinks about it in AFfC. Idk though I never read it but it seems like common knowledge on the forums

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I follow you with your theory, Rhaenys_Targaryen, but after seeing Catelyn, Ned and Littlefinger had to go back to the Red Keep, and not through the front door, so if there is no other way to enter or leave the city than the gates, they had to take the risk to go through the River Gate again. Perhaps Littlefinger did bribe some guards ?

LF could have brided some guards, or they had been in his service from the start. But why would they have to enter the Red Keep through some back door? You don't want people to follow you, but it doesn't matter if they see you returning. No one will have had any idea about where you have been.

Got a couple.

Was Roberts hammer 1 or 2 handed?

Can I get the quotes or passages on:

Jaime saving Brienne from the bear.

And

Roberts rape of Cersei (didn't even see it in my rereads. )

Here you go :) Robert vs Cersei :p

Robert had been handsome enough when they first married, tall and strong and powerful, but his hair was black and heavy, thick on his chest and coarse around his sex. The wrong man came back from the Trident, the queen would sometimes think as he was plowing her. In the first few years, when he mounted her more often, she would close her eyes and pretend that he was Rhaegar. She could not pretend that he was Jaime; he was too different, too unfamiliar. Even the smell of him was wrong.

For Robert, those nights never happened. Come morning he remembered nothing, or so he would have had her believe. Once, during the first year of their marriage, Cersei had voiced her displeasure the next day. “You hurt me,” she complained. He had the grace to look ashamed. “It was not me, my lady,” he said in a sulky sullen tone, like a child caught stealing apple cakes from the kitchen. “It was the wine. I drink too much wine.” To wash down his admission, he reached for his horn of ale. As he raised it to his mouth, she smashed her own horn in his face, so hard she chipped a tooth. Years later at a feast, she heard him telling a serving wench how he’d cracked the tooth in a mêlée. Well, our marriage was a mêlée, she reflected, so he did not lie.

The rest had all been lies, though. He did remember what he did to her at night, she was convinced of that. She could see it in his eyes. He only pretended to forget; it was easier to do that than to face his shame. Deep down Robert Baratheon was a coward. In time the assaults did grow less frequent. During the first year he took her at least once a fortnight; by the end it was not even once a year. He never stopped completely, though. Sooner or later there would always come a night when he would drink too much and want to claim his rights. What shamed him in the light of day gave him pleasure in the darkness.

I don't know about the hammer though....

ok now explain how Arya was able to check out the boat when she couldn't pass through a gate...

See this version of the map of KL: http://www.fantasticmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Kings_Landing.jpg

This is a digital version of the KL map from The Lands of Ice and Fire. All the way at the bottom, you can see the River Gate, better known as the Mud Gate. A lot of houses seem to be standing there, and there isn't a lot of room to go left or right. To get onto the Kingsroad you have to cross the river. I'm not sure, but it could be that this gate was the least bit guarded. Or, since so much trade is going on here and it thus will be very very busy and crowded with people there, and a small girl would not draw a lot of attention. Especially one who looked to be as ragged as Arya did at the time. So she did pass the gate.

So how come Stannis wasn't able to walk right in?

Stannis wasn't able to walk right in because the gates had been locked. All the trade and houses that once took place there, had been burned down prior to the battle. That's an obstacle. And the fact that the doors of the gate were closed, that's another.

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LF could have brided some guards, or they had been in his service from the start. But why would they have to enter the Red Keep through some back door? You don't want people to follow you, but it doesn't matter if they see you returning. No one will have had any idea about where you have been.

In this case, I believe it's important that nobody knows Ned did leave the Red Keep, else one's could wonder why he did, and that could lead to Catelyn.

See this version of the map of KL: http://www.fantasticmaps.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Kings_Landing.jpg

This is a digital version of the KL map from The Lands of Ice and Fire. All the way at the bottom, you can see the River Gate, better known as the Mud Gate. A lot of houses seem to be standing there, and there isn't a lot of room to go left or right. To get onto the Kingsroad you have to cross the river. I'm not sure, but it could be that this gate was the least bit guarded. Or, since so much trade is going on here and it thus will be very very busy and crowded with people there, and a small girl would not draw a lot of attention. Especially one who looked to be as ragged as Arya did at the time. So she did pass the gate.

I have to disagree here. GRRM clearly states the Mud Gate is barred for those who want to leave the city :

Every day since her escape from the Red Keep, Arya had visited each of the seven city gates in turn. The Dragon Gate, The Lion Gate, and the Old Gate were closed and barred. The Mud Gate and the Gate of the Gods were open, but only to those who wanted to enter the city; the guards let no one out. Those who were allowed to leave left by the King's Gate or the Iron Gate, but Lannister men-at-arms in crimson cloaks and lion-crested helms manned the guard posts there. Spying down from the roof of an inn by the King's Gate, Arya saw them searching wagons and carriages, forcing riders to open their saddlebags, and questioning everyone who tried to pass on foot.

Besides, as I have already quoted,

She decided to visit the riverfront. It was on the way to the Mud Gate anyway, and she hadn't checked that one today.

If the riverfront is on her way to the Mud Gate, she doesn't have to cross the Gate to reach it.

So I believe the map from The Lands of Ice and Fire contradicts the book here. I pointed out recently it was already the case with Eel Alley, the map has it at the foot of Aegon's Hill when the book places it halfway up Visenya's Hill.

What seems the most plausible to me is that there must be a door in the outer wall leading freely to the fishmarket and the harbor, but there must be walls delimiting the fishmarket, and each boat at each pier must be guarded, we see in the book the Wind Witch is.

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Are there any theories floating around as to who gave away Arriane's plot to crown Myrcella? It intrigues me and I cant think of any time have been specifically told who informed.


I have my own little crackpot that it was Arys Oakheart because he was ashamed, and then he let Areo kill him rather than admit what he had done to the woman he "loved". But that's just speculation and cracked pots. Anyone link any good theories to this?


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In this case, I believe it's important that nobody knows Ned did leave the Red Keep, else one's could wonder why he did, and that could lead to Catelyn.

I have to disagree here. GRRM clearly states the Mud Gate is barred for those who want to leave the city :

Besides, as I have already quoted,

If the riverfront is on her way to the Mud Gate, she doesn't have to cross the Gate to reach it.

So I believe the map from The Lands of Ice and Fire contradicts the book here. I pointed out recently it was already the case with Eel Alley, the map has it at the foot of Aegon's Hill when the book places it halfway up Visenya's Hill.

What seems the most plausible to me is that there must be a door in the outer wall leading freely to the fishmarket and the harbor, but there must be walls delimiting the fishmarket, and each boat at each pier must be guarded, we see in the book the Wind Witch is.

In that case I'm guessing this is simply an error made by GRRM, or he changed his mind later on when the maps were made about where the Mud Gate should be placed. Once inside the city walls, according to the map, you cannot reach the waterfront. Since you mention that you already discovered a difference/contradiction between books and official maps, this might simply be another one. A mistake or change of mind by GRRM.

If there's a door, then why guard only the gate and not the door as well, since people can still come and go as they please? Lannister guards will notice a door in the city walls, so I don't think this is the case.

The Wind Witch might be guarded because the Lannisters knew (Varys and his little birds?) that Ned had hired the ship to take Arya and Sansa back to Winterfell. Since Arya is still missing, there's a chance she'd try to reach the ship (as she does). But Arya doesn't recognize any of the guards, even though they are dressed in the colours of Winterfell. This makes me believe these guards are simply Lannister men in Winterfell outfits, and they were placed there to lure Arya into asking for help. Fortunately, Arya is smarter than that. She doesn't recognize the men, and leaves.

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Why was Baelor Breakspear described as "protector of the realm" in The Hedge Knight? I thought that was just part of the kings titles. Is it likely that during the events of The Mystery Knight Bloodraven is "protector of the realm" for Aerys I?


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In that case I'm guessing this is simply an error made by GRRM, or he changed his mind later on when the maps were made about where the Mud Gate should be placed. Once inside the city walls, according to the map, you cannot reach the waterfront. Since you mention that you already discovered a difference/contradiction between books and official maps, this might simply be another one. A mistake or change of mind by GRRM.

If there's a door, then why guard only the gate and not the door as well, since people can still come and go as they please? Lannister guards will notice a door in the city walls, so I don't think this is the case.

The Wind Witch might be guarded because the Lannisters knew (Varys and his little birds?) that Ned had hired the ship to take Arya and Sansa back to Winterfell. Since Arya is still missing, there's a chance she'd try to reach the ship (as she does). But Arya doesn't recognize any of the guards, even though they are dressed in the colours of Winterfell. This makes me believe these guards are simply Lannister men in Winterfell outfits, and they were placed there to lure Arya into asking for help. Fortunately, Arya is smarter than that. She doesn't recognize the men, and leaves.

It's clearly an error. The city was closed off and Arya couldn't leave but she was able to get to the docks which the Battle of the Blackwater shows were beyond the city walls. The only other error from Game that really annoys me is how Cat met Lord Mallister near the Crossroads Inn just before she took Tyrion but Mallister arrived in KL before Yoren.
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Why was Baelor Breakspear described as "protector of the realm" in The Hedge Knight? I thought that was just part of the kings titles. Is it likely that during the events of The Mystery Knight Bloodraven is "protector of the realm" for Aerys I?

Maybe it is an honorific for his roll at the Redgrass Field. Robert has it later for his one-on-one against Rhaegar? (Just guessing.)

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Why was Baelor Breakspear described as "protector of the realm" in The Hedge Knight? I thought that was just part of the kings titles. Is it likely that during the events of The Mystery Knight Bloodraven is "protector of the realm" for Aerys I?

Could very well be. I'm sure some Hands are trusted mpre than others and some Hands are like able to gain more, such as titles, from their Kings than other Hands.
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It's clearly an error. The city was closed off and Arya couldn't leave but she was able to get to the docks which the Battle of the Blackwater shows were beyond the city walls. The only other error from Game that really annoys me is how Cat met Lord Mallister near the Crossroads Inn just before she took Tyrion but Mallister arrived in KL before Yoren.

Wouldn't this be right though? She passes Mallister heading South towards KL, and the travels further North to reach the Crossroads Inn where she meets Yoren. It would then make sense for Mallister to reach KL first wouldn't it?

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I was thinking maybe when you have a king like Baelor the Blessed or Aerys I, someone who is not a warrior, then maybe the title Protector of the Realm goes to someone else.

I think that this is quite likely. Tommen still being a child is not given the title as far as I can see. In AFFC appendix, Cersei is listed as Protector of the Realm and in ADWD appendix, Kevan is listed as Protector of the Realm.

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In Robert's will Ned writes...

"... I do hereby command Eddard of House Stark, Lord of Winterfell and Hand of the King, to serve as Lord Regent and Protector of the Realm upon my … upon my death … to rule in my … in my stead, until my son Joffrey does come of age …” AGoT p. 504

So Lord Regent and PotR are separate. Something marshal in the case that the Hand is not a particularly marshal person.

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In Robert's will Ned writes...

"... I do hereby command Eddard of House Stark, Lord of Winterfell and Hand of the King, to serve as Lord Regent and Protector of the Realm upon my … upon my death … to rule in my … in my stead, until my son Joffrey does come of age …” AGoT p. 504

So Lord Regent and PotR are separate. Something marshal in the case that the Hand is not a particularly marshal person.

Good catch. I'm a little surprised now that Cersei was ever Protector of the Realm.

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Wouldn't this be right though? She passes Mallister heading South towards KL, and the travels further North to reach the Crossroads Inn where she meets Yoren. It would then make sense for Mallister to reach KL first wouldn't it?

No she sees Mallister just a few hours before she arrives at the Inn. She capture Tyrion later that day. Yoren tells Ned he rode as fast as he could to KL to give him the news but riders to CR would have arrived there first. But in the chapter after Cat takes Tyrion Sansa watches Mallister joust. In the next chapter Ned ponders, the day after Mallister's joust, the death of Ser Hugh. Then Tyrion learns he's going to the Vale and only then does Arya see Yorem with Ned.
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A herald’s voice rang out. “All hail His Grace, Joffrey of the Houses Baratheon and Lannister, the First of his Name, King of the Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men, and Lord of the Seven Kingdoms. All hail his lady mother, Cersei of House Lannister, Queen Regent, Light of the West, and Protector of the Realm.” AGoT p. 619



This is the scene when Sansa pleads and Barristan gets removed.



But then later, Ned calls Joffrey the PotR.... hmmm.



Maybe Tywin couldn't be the Warden of the West and the PotR at the same time?


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