Small Questions v 10017

[RumHam]

I think it's an Andal thing. There probably was a First Men order that tended to the ravens. Aegon had one on Dragonstone apparently. There's a quote from Tyrion that suggests the Alchemists were once the more respected order, and the Maesters have only risen to prominence in the past five-hundred years or so.

They did not need a boat to reach the Isle of Ravens; a weathered wooden drawbridge linked it to the eastern bank. “The Ravenry is the oldest building at the Citadel,” Alleras told him, as they crossed over the slow-flowing waters of the Honeywine. “In the Age of Heroes it was supposedly the stronghold of a pirate lord who sat here robbing ships as they came down the river.”

Once theirs had been a powerful guild, but in recent centuries the maesters of the Citadel had supplanted the alchemists almost everywhere. Now only a few of the older order remained, and they no longer even pretended to transmute metals...

[Ser Leftwich]

Afaik there is no hard evidence either way. Using ravens seems to be something that's a lot older than the Andals though (CotF stuff), but other elements of their order seem to be younger (e.g. the metal chains including materials like steel require more knowledge in metallurgy than the FM presumably possessed). It may be a FM order that adapted a bit when the Andals came, or a Andal order that took over some practices from the FM. For all we know, it might also be a relatively recent order that rediscovered the ancient practice of ravenry...

We do know is that they have been around for at least 3 centuries as Torrhen Stark had three maesters with him when he knelt. If the KitN had them even though their homebase is in the far South, then they can't have been too recent even then, so they are probably comfortably older than that.

BTW, if anyone knows of a mention of a maester before that, I'd be very interested.

There are also the glass candles that were brought from Valyria, reportedly 1,000 before the Doom.

Also, if the maesters were a First Men system subjugated by the Andals the chains of office makes a very good metaphor for captives for service. The chains could also be some sort of magical holdover/superstition like iron working on faeries. (Literal chains, like the metaphorical ones in Bran's dream).

And lastly, there are the masks of office for the Archmaesters, similar to both the faces carved in the weirwoods and the mask worn by Morna White Mask.

[Sordelor]

Which name do Dornish childs get if non of their parents are the Lord or Heir of a house.

[Arya kiddin']

Which name do Dornish childs get if non of their parents are the Lord or Heir of a house.

Smallfolk don't have surnames in general. The bastards of nobles get the surname "Sand".

[Lord Egeman]

Smallfolk don't have surnames in general. The bastards of nobles get the surname "Sand".

I think the question refers to the Dornish Law of Inheritance rather than bastardry.

Like a case where a female Yronwood marries a male Dayne and both are second, third or so to inherit their respective castles and ranks. I would say it still follows the male last name since that law is only regarding the heirs. I would say that it may be dependant on the prestige of the Houses, but then the Martells have married with Targaryens with the female from the Targaryens and they are still Martells. To counter this, we have Doran's mother who was a Martell and her children are Martells as well. It is so complicated with these Dornishmen and their laws.

[RumHam]

I think the question refers to the Dornish Law of Inheritance rather than bastardry.

Like a case where a female Yronwood marries a male Dayne and both are second, third or so to inherit their respective castles and ranks. I would say it still follows the male last name since that law is only regarding the heirs. I would say that it may be dependant on the prestige of the Houses, but then the Martells have married with Targaryens with the female from the Targaryens and they are still Martells. To counter this, we have Doran's mother who was a Martell and her children are Martells as well. It is so complicated with these Dornishmen and their laws.

Just to add:

http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/The_Martell_Names_Inheritance

[Ser Leftwich]

I think the question refers to the Dornish Law of Inheritance rather than bastardry.

Like a case where a female Yronwood marries a male Dayne and both are second, third or so to inherit their respective castles and ranks. I would say it still follows the male last name since that law is only regarding the heirs. I would say that it may be dependant on the prestige of the Houses, but then the Martells have married with Targaryens with the female from the Targaryens and they are still Martells. To counter this, we have Doran's mother who was a Martell and her children are Martells as well. It is so complicated with these Dornishmen and their laws.

Also, http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/SSM/Entry/2999/

[Nightingale18]

In aFfC Pycelle tells Cersei that he's been making moon tea for Margaery... Is he just guessing at what Cersei wants to hear? Or is there a chance that it's true?

[King Blackwood]

In aFfC Pycelle tells Cersei that he's been making moon tea for Margaery... Is he just guessing at what Cersei wants to hear? Or is there a chance that it's true?

It's true, but we don't know why she's taking it.

[Nightingale18]

Thanks- I initially thought it was true but I'm doing a re-read and I seem to have grown far more suspicious

[Lost Melnibonean]

It's true, but we don't know why she's taking it.

Or if she was asking him to make it for someone else.

[Trinton07]

so in a storm of swords, aemon sends ravens to eastwatch and the shadow tower to ask for help as mance rayder sieges the gate. the eastwatch men come, and at the shadow tower, bowen marsh is fighting wildlings at the gorge. presumebly this fight is happening or is about the happen when the receive the raven. so they cant come to castle black right away, understandably. but then castle black gets a reply saying that they were back at the shadow tower and marsh was wounded, and the letter says that it will take awhile before marsh can head back to castle black. wtf was that about. why wouldnt marsh send mallister with his men and the shadow tower men to hold castle black. like marsh gets a letter saying the gate is under attack by like 100,000 wildlings or whatever, and he's like "yeah well im hurt so youll have to wait." can his men no go without him like wtf. and why does mallister just let that happen. youd think that one of them wouldve sensed the urgency and sent men as soon as possible. and jon doesnt even care. he hears that marsh cant start on his way back for a while and he just accepts that none of his men are coming either? but wtf it doesnt make any sense. can anyone help me here this whole thing doesnt make any sense at all.

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

In aFfC Pycelle tells Cersei that he's been making moon tea for Margaery... Is he just guessing at what Cersei wants to hear? Or is there a chance that it's true?

Cersei is pressuring Pycelle in that conversation, and threatening to throw him in the black cells. Later, in aDwD, Pycelle tells Kevan that he would never have spoken of moon tea if Cersei had not commended him to do so. However, it is all a big mystery.

Take note of how Pycelle is still trying to speak of the moon tea in aFfC when Cersei cut's him off. It could be that Margaery asked for moon tea, but for one of her ladies, and not for herself, since she must have known Cersei would be watching her every move. If this is true, it could explain why Pycelle did not want to say anything about it. He would have known that it wasn't meant for Margaery, but Cersei doesn't care about such things. Cersei had need for a half truth, and prevented Pycelle from saying the rest.

Or Margaery really messed things up and needed the moon tea for herself. It's all possible.

so in a storm of swords, aemon sends ravens to eastwatch and the shadow tower to ask for help as mance rayder sieges the gate. the eastwatch men come, and at the shadow tower, bowen marsh is fighting wildlings at the gorge. presumebly this fight is happening or is about the happen when the receive the raven. so they cant come to castle black right away, understandably. but then castle black gets a reply saying that they were back at the shadow tower and marsh was wounded, and the letter says that it will take awhile before marsh can head back to castle black. wtf was that about. why wouldnt marsh send mallister with his men and the shadow tower men to hold castle black. like marsh gets a letter saying the gate is under attack by like 100,000 wildlings or whatever, and he's like "yeah well im hurt so youll have to wait." can his men no go without him like wtf. and why does mallister just let that happen. youd think that one of them wouldve sensed the urgency and sent men as soon as possible. and jon doesnt even care. he hears that marsh cant start on his way back for a while and he just accepts that none of his men are coming either? but wtf it doesnt make any sense. can anyone help me here this whole thing doesnt make any sense at all.

The Gorge near the Shadow Tower was under attack as well, that's where Marsh got injured. In that fight, more than 100 men died. When you say Mance had 100.000 fighting people going against Castle Black, I think you miscounted :). The fighters Mance brought were only 20.000 men, which is still a lot more than the Nights Watch had, of course.

The Shadow Tower had 200 men before Qorin Halfhand took 100 out beyond the Wall. So only a 100 were left. Castle Black had only 400 men left after the ranging had began, and Marsh took about 350 of these men, bringing the total of the Shadow Tower up to about 450.

Whilst fighting on the Bridge of Skulls, a 100 men died in battle. So they knew the wildlings were close to the Shadow Tower, and the Bridge of Skulls and the Gorge give the wildlings oppertunities to bypass the Wall. A man on top of the Wall can face many foes who are down on the floor, but when you have to fight in passes and on bridges, that advantage is lost. Perhaps they didn't think the attack on Castle Black was that serious. Perhaps they believed that Mance had sent more of his men out, to spread out over the length of the Wall. They probably feared that if they left a small force at the Shadow Tower, the Shadow Tower would be defeated and taken, and the wildlings would pass.

Only 350 men were left alive at the Shadow Tower, and we don't know how many of those were capable of fighting. Out of the 400 from Castle Black, Marsh left about 50 men at Castle Black, the old and crippled, the green boys who weren't ready for fighting. We don't know how many old and crippled there are at the Shadow Tower, or green boys still in training, but they'll be there as well.

And the wildlings weren't attacking only at Castle Black and the Shadow Tower. They were also attacking Woodswatch-by-the-Pool (Harma Dogshead), Long Barrow (Rattleshirt), Icemark(the Weeper, who later attacked Marsh at the Bridge of Skulls). Donel Noye says:

Everywhere. Harma Dogshead was seen at Woodswatch-by-the-Pool, Rattleshirt at Long Barrow, the Weeper near Icemark. All along the Wall... they’re here, they’re there, they’re climbing near Queensgate, they’re hacking at the gates of Greyguard, they’re massing against Eastwatch... but one glimpse of a black cloak and they’re gone. Next day they’re somewhere else.

So there's confusion everywhere, which isn't quite over when Marsh gets 100 men killed and himself wounded in battle. The Shadow Tower needs men as well, and with all the attacks happening between the Shadow Tower and Castle Black, of course Marsh doesn't want to sent most men back to Castle Black. He believes Castle Black to be capable of withstanding the attack, since Mance and his people are still beyonde the Wall, and the garrison at Castle Black is on top of the Wall.

Also, with Marsh wounded so severly, he isn't going to be leading any group of men, and Mallister is needed for the command at the Shadow Tower. They could have sent someone else to take the command, but the fact remains that at least three castle in between the Shadow Tower and Castle Black were being attacked, and they tried to make as good a use of the few men they had left.

I'm not saying I agree with all of their tactics, but I hope this makes you understand their decisions a little more.

[RumHam]

Can someone who has the official app check the entry on Jeor Moromont and see if it gives any indication when he joined The Watch?

[Roddy Darwin]

Can someone who has the official app check the entry on Jeor Moromont and see if it gives any indication when he joined The Watch?

Hardly:

Once Lord of Bear Island, Jeor Mormont chooses to take the black as he ages, and leaves the island and the Valyrian steel bastard sword Longclaw to his son, Jorah. Five years after Robert's rise to the throne, Lord Commander Qorgyle passes away and Lord Mormont is elected in his place

There is nothing helpful in Jorah's entry, either.

[RumHam]

Aw. Thanks anyway.

[yolkboy]

Was there a line about an ice dragon being in the wall? Or a dragon egg? Or something like that?

I know jon says being in the tunnel is like being in the gullet of an ice dragon, but is there something more?

[The Dornishman's Widow]

Was there a line about an ice dragon being in the wall? Or a dragon egg? Or something like that?

I know jon says being in the tunnel is like being in the gullet of an ice dragon, but is there something more?

There's a quote about a potential dragon egg in AFFC, Sam: "There were dragons here two hundred years ago, Sam found himself thinking, as he watched the cage making a slow descent. They would just have flown to the top of the Wall. Queen Alysanne had visited Castle Black on her dragon, and Jaehaerys, her king, had come after her on his own. Could Silverwing have left an egg behind?"

[yolkboy]

There's a quote about a potential dragon egg in AFFC, Sam: "There were dragons here two hundred years ago, Sam found himself thinking, as he watched the cage making a slow descent. They would just have flown to the top of the Wall. Queen Alysanne had visited Castle Black on her dragon, and Jaehaerys, her king, had come after her on his own. Could Silverwing have left an egg behind?"

That's probably what I'm thinking of.

PS that was QUICK.

[Lord Dolorous Edd]

how old is bloodraven?

also how many eyes does lord bloodraven have?