Best to Worst Mothers in ASOIAF

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

First off, according to the Wiki the Boltons have rebelled within an unpsecified recent amount of centuries. That means less than a thousand years ago otherwise they wouldn't use the term centuries.If it was so stupid why didn.t anyone say something? I don't know, I would think people generally wouldn't want to oppose the second most powerful house in the North who are known for flaying enemies alive and their current Lord basically lets his bastard son run rampant and toy with people as he pleases. Roose is a cruel bastard which is why he seems so appealing a choice as a 'General' but putting him in such an important position was pretty stupid. The Boltons have been chomping at the bit to rule the North based on their history and therefore placing someone like Roose in such a position was pretty stupid.

Just to clarify, you really do think that this makes Cat a bad mother? Who would you have suggested instead?

[dmo862000]

Just to clarify, you really do think that this makes Cat a bad mother? Who would you have suggested instead?

I never said Cat was a bad mother. I said she isn't the great mother that everyone portrays her to be. Good parenting seems to be hard to find in Westeros. I would venture to say I don't think she is any better or worse of a mother than Cersei. Both loved their kids but both were terrible at raising them correctly. The only reason Cat's kids turned out better is because they had a solid father figure.

[Rhymes with Weak]

Why does everyone give Selyse such a bad rap for not touching the stone side of Shireen's face?

[David Selig]

I never said Cat was a bad mother. I said she isn't the great mother that everyone portrays her to be. Good parenting seems to be hard to find in Westeros. I would venture to say I don't think she is any better or worse of a mother than Cersei. Both loved their kids but both were terrible at raising them correctly. The only reason Cat's kids turned out better is because they had a solid father figure.

LOL.

[Éadaoin]

I never said Cat was a bad mother. I said she isn't the great mother that everyone portrays her to be. Good parenting seems to be hard to find in Westeros. I would venture to say I don't think she is any better or worse of a mother than Cersei. Both loved their kids but both were terrible at raising them correctly. The only reason Cat's kids turned out better is because they had a solid father figure.

To say that the Stark kids turned out well just because of Ned is ridiculous. What exactly puts Cat on the same level as Cersei wrt parenting?

[Apple the Great]

Am I the only one who thinks Cat wasn't a great mother? She consistently gave Robb bad advice and undermined him. Sure when Bran got hurt she stayed by his side but to the detriment of the other children. She put her entire family at risk, which includes her children, by kidnapping Tyrion even though some of her kids were at KL which obviously put them in a bad spot. I'm not saying she didn't love her kids but loving and being a good mother are two different things. She often let her emotions get the best of her.

:agree:

[PeterPaulGualtieri]

I never said Cat was a bad mother. I said she isn't the great mother that everyone portrays her to be. Good parenting seems to be hard to find in Westeros. I would venture to say I don't think she is any better or worse of a mother than Cersei. Both loved their kids but both were terrible at raising them correctly. The only reason Cat's kids turned out better is because they had a solid father figure.

:bs:

[Alayne's Shadow.]

I never said Cat was a bad mother. I said she isn't the great mother that everyone portrays her to be. Good parenting seems to be hard to find in Westeros. I would venture to say I don't think she is any better or worse of a mother than Cersei. Both loved their kids but both were terrible at raising them correctly. The only reason Cat's kids turned out better is because they had a solid father figure.

Where does that came from exactly?

[Mladen]

I never said Cat was a bad mother. I said she isn't the great mother that everyone portrays her to be. Good parenting seems to be hard to find in Westeros. I would venture to say I don't think she is any better or worse of a mother than Cersei. Both loved their kids but both were terrible at raising them correctly. The only reason Cat's kids turned out better is because they had a solid father figure.

Borderline fanfiction... I don't know where did you get this, but one thing is certain - not from ASOIAF...

[Apple the Great]

Not that I think that Cat was a bad mother (clearly, it's blasphemy to say a bad word about Cat...), but she was responsible for Ned going south to act as the Hand and her rash actions in going south incognito/capturing Tyrion did endanger her family for no gain. I'm not saying that she should have gone all Red Wedding on the Lannisters, but perhaps with a little more calculation there would be more Starks alive now. She abandoned Rickon who has now grown up pretty wild, relying on a brother a few years older than him to be a male role model, which is a lot of responsibility for a young boy in a coma (Maester Luwin and other household staff were servants and not appropriate role models before anyone says it). While I don't think it's likely that she would/could have stopped Theon and the Ironborn, it's not unfeasible, and at least her two boys would have had their mother, instead she dallied in Riverrun - understandable but I think her boys needed her more than her father did.

And then there is her treatment of Jon Snow. I don't really need to mention anything more about this, especially as all Cat's fanboys and girls have justified her behaviour to themselves and are convinced they're right on this. All I'm going to say is that in my opinion, and it is just an opinion, her treatment of him does not become a lady of otherwise good character and is an irredeemable blot on it. Blaming a child for the father's sins is hardly noble behaviour.

[Mladen]

And then there is her treatment of Jon Snow. I don't really need to mention anything more about this, especially as all Cat's fanboys and girls have justified her behaviour to themselves and are convinced they're right on this. All I'm going to say is that in my opinion, and it is just an opinion, her treatment of him does not become a lady of otherwise good character and is an irredeemable blot on it. Blaming a child for the father's sins is hardly noble behaviour.

Apparently there is no lady in Westeros... Should I remind you that bastards are rarely raised near legitimate children? Look how Cersei reacted to idea of Robert bringing his children? Which of the great lords raised bastards so closely to him? Which of those great ladies of Westeros accepted the bastards. We may not like it, I know I don't, but, heck, we can't blame Cat for Ned's decisions...

[David Selig]

All the rest I've seen too many times to bother to get into it now, but I just have to ask about Rickon and the male role model bit. How was Cat supposed to help in this respect?

[The Wolves]

I don't think its fair to bring up Catelyn's treatment of Jon in this specific discussion because she's not his mother(thank gawd!!!)so her parenting skills shouldn't be based on how she interacted with Jon it should be based on HER children.

Catelyn was a good mom not the best but she's the best we've read about in the books.

I think Elia and Rhaella might have been good moms also I don't know enough but I'm sure Lyanna would have been alright but that's my biases speaking.

[Mladen]

Catelyn was a good mom not the best but she's the best we've read about in the books.

I don't know where I got this crazy idea, but I think the intent is to speak of the mothers in the books. Is she the best mother in entire universe, plus millions of mother characters in all the works in history of literature? Probably not. But, I think this discussion should restrain to ASOIAF only...

[E-Ro]

Not that I think that Cat was a bad mother (clearly, it's blasphemy to say a bad word about Cat...), but she was responsible for Ned going south to act as the Hand and her rash actions in going south incognito/capturing Tyrion did endanger her family for no gain. I'm not saying that she should have gone all Red Wedding on the Lannisters, but perhaps with a little more calculation there would be more Starks alive now. She abandoned Rickon who has now grown up pretty wild, relying on a brother a few years older than him to be a male role model, which is a lot of responsibility for a young boy in a coma (Maester Luwin and other household staff were servants and not appropriate role models before anyone says it). While I don't think it's likely that she would/could have stopped Theon and the Ironborn, it's not unfeasible, and at least her two boys would have had their mother, instead she dallied in Riverrun - understandable but I think her boys needed her more than her father did.

And then there is her treatment of Jon Snow. I don't really need to mention anything more about this, especially as all Cat's fanboys and girls have justified her behaviour to themselves and are convinced they're right on this. All I'm going to say is that in my opinion, and it is just an opinion, her treatment of him does not become a lady of otherwise good character and is an irredeemable blot on it. Blaming a child for the father's sins is hardly noble behaviour.

ugh, I lost my post, fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu. anyway here is the short version.

1. Ned going south was not at all a bad idea at the time, in fact, it only looks like a bad idea with hindsight, and cat, as great as she is, cant look into the future. As well, its not like ned had any choice in the matter, especially with lysas letter. Ned had to go south, whether he liked it or not.

2. Her family was already in danger, kidnapping tyrion and the results of it are among the most hotly debated topics on the boards. But suffice it to say, there was trouble coming with or without tyrion getting abducted.

3. Abandoned rickon? Really now? Of all her kids, rickon and bran need her the least at this point in time. Her eldest son was marching to war and needed all the advice he could get, and her daughters and husband were hostages. Besides, she would have been of no help at all in winterfell, and rickon and bran have tons of people to look after and care for them.

[James Arryn]

I think Cat did give Robb some unwise military advice, but really she mostly just represented cautious conventional strategic thinking. Her political advice was often pretty sage.

What either of those have to do with being a good parent, I don't get. Tywin probably gives awesome strategic advice, and he's one of the worst parents in the series.

[Minsc]

Not that I think that Cat was a bad mother (clearly, it's blasphemy to say a bad word about Cat...), but she was responsible for Ned going south to act as the Hand

Ned can make his own decisions and even Luwin agreed that he should go down south.

it's not unfeasible, and at least her two boys would have had their mother, instead she dallied in Riverrun - understandable but I think her boys needed her more than her father did.

At that time, she had no reason to believe that Bran and Rickon were ever going to be in serious danger while those were the last moments of her father. Furthermore, she also stuck around in order to support Robb and act as an advocate for Sansa and Arya thus serving her other children's well-being.

And then there is her treatment of Jon Snow. I don't really need to mention anything more about this, especially as all Cat's fanboys and girls have justified her behaviour to themselves and are convinced they're right on this. All I'm going to say is that in my opinion, and it is just an opinion, her treatment of him does not become a lady of otherwise good character and is an irredeemable blot on it. Blaming a child for the father's sins is hardly noble behaviour.

Her interactions or lack thereof with someone who is not her child shouldn't impact her ranking as a mother. Moreover, might I remind you that this is a society where even the most noble character(Ned) freely condones the use of taking child hostages thus her blaming a child for the father's sins is hardly unique.

[James Arryn]

Taking a child as a political hostage is not blaming the child for their father's actions.

I see what you're trying to say, but there's a distinct difference. It's not personal, and it's not aimed at the child.

[The Wolves]

I don't know where I got this crazy idea, but I think the intent is to speak of the mothers in the books. Is she the best mother in entire universe, plus millions of mother characters in all the works in history of literature? Probably not. But, I think this discussion should restrain to ASOIAF only...

That's why I said specifically "in the books" meaning ASOIAF, I didn't say the best mother in all of literature. I was saying Catelyn is the best mother we read about in the series since she can't be compared to others like Elia, Rhaella or maybe Lyanna.

Read my post again

[Minsc]

Taking a child as a political hostage is not blaming the child for their father's actions.

I see what you're trying to say, but there's a distinct difference. It's not personal, and it's not aimed at the child.

And yet the child is the one that has to suffer not the father.

In how, it wasn't Balon that was forced to live in exile away from his entire family and previous friends and comrades. Nor is Balon that has to grow up knowing/believing that the individual in charge of his care might one day take over his head because one of his family members displeased the King or Lord of Winterfell.

Simply, Theon was the one that shouldered all the burden/suffering for the reconciliation between the Iron Throne and Seastone Chair. While, Balon was left generally alone to continue ruling his people.

Thus, somewhat similar to what Jon had to deal with. In how, I doubt that Catelyn actually blamed him for his birth and placement with her understanding it was Ned's fault. Only, he was stuck with having to shoulder the resentment because Ned was to powerful to struck out against.