Controversial Chapter?

[Lady Howell]

How amused, pissed, or happy would you be if the "contraversial" Sansa chapter isn't her using her feminine wiles, offing Sweetrobin, or doing anything that takes her from pawn to player but Littlefinger dying some lameass way that does not have anything to do with what Sansa did or said or anything she had zero involvement, and Littlefinger is offed by one of the Vale lords, Myranda Royce (for some reason I wouldn't put it past her), or Hell, sweetrobin throws a tantrums and orders his execution. And all Sansa is, is a witness to the event.

Now that would be contraversial and frankly I'd be shocked and pissed. But boy would it be a twist.

[Gneisenau]

What is this controversial Sansa chapter you speak of ?

[Ours if the Fury]

All of Sansa's chapter's are controversial....

Controversially BORING !!!

:laugh:

[Queen Elsa]

What is this controversial Sansa chapter you speak of ?

It's from this article. Elio, webmaster of westerns.org, said he read part of WOW that includes a controvercial Sansa chapter.

Martin later sent him the Manuscript in the Box, asking him to fact-check it for him — because a slip like a change in eye color will make fans salivate with imposter theories, when sometimes it's just a mistake. Garcia now performs this function for all the books, but it's completely unofficial: "It's not like I'm paid or anything." And yes, that means he's read parts of book six, The Winds of Winter — including a Sansa chapter that is sure to be controversial.

[RoamingRonin]

I'm hoping the editor is just being sensational to keep interest in the series. Sansa kissing Littlefinger was controversial for me in AFFC.

[Newstar]

including a Sansa chapter that is sure to be controversial.

Elio has since elaborated on the boards that this quote--penned by the Vulture article author after talking with Elio, who's actually seen the chapter in question--is a bit inaccurate and the Vulture article author's gloss on what Elio told him/her. The Sansa chapter, according to Elio, "might be controversial in certain quarters of the fandom." I've personally interpreted that to mean that certain fans might have a huge problem with the chapter in question.

It's been speculated that the potentially controversial Sansa chapter is the same one that was bounced from ADWD, but it's entirely possible Elio's read more than one, and I don't know that we can read anything into the fact that GRRM hasn't read from the Sansa chapter or published it as a gift or preview chapter, either, since the bounced Sansa chapter supposedly kicked off a new storyline (which would mean GRRM might want to save it for the published TWOW).

[Florina Laufeyson]

I hope its Sansa making a conscious choice to kick LF's ass. Otherwise, i have no idea and i kinda wanna keep it that way so when i read it, its all awesome and stuff.

[Kienn]

Well.. what wouldn't be controversial? Even if Sansa does nothing... it's controversial since it lacks character involvement or progression or something.

Everything is controversial for someone somewhere.

[Newstar]

Well.. what wouldn't be controversial?

Sansa doing something badass. Sansa fans would be thrilled. Sansa haters would be mollified. Those who don't care either way would be happy to see some Stark awesomeness regardless.

Honestly, when I first heard of the Vulture article with the "controversial chapter" quote, my mind went to one of two places for the controversy:

1. Sansa becoming fully complicit in Littlefinger's plot to murder Sweetrobin, or doing the deed herself, or

2. Creepy sexual stuff involving Sansa (with Harry, Littlefinger, Mya for all I know...maybe Littlefinger getting some prostitute to "train" Sansa). Not a rape, I don't think (GRRM has said I think that he won't do any POV rapes), but definitely some sort of sexual content.

...with #1 having the edge. Can't imagine anything more controversial than Sansa conspiring to murder an innocent child, let alone doing it.

I also thought of "certain quarters of the fandom" being possibly SanSan shippers, but it would surprise me.

[Julian Rayne]

I think this "controversial" factoid has been blown out of proportion.

[alienarea]

Maybe the controversial Sansa chapter is the one where she dies** without ever doing anything which will lead to the controversial discussion what her character was needed for in the first place (to show us, even in fantasy books you can have a boring, insignificant life?)?

** yes, I know that GRRM hasn't killed characters in their own POV so far (except for maybe Jon Snow).

[MotherMerciless]

Something sexual between Sansa and LF. She has learned to use her power as a female to get what she wants. Sansa will kill LF, it is known. Still.. ew.

[Robin the Mighty]

I think this "controversial" factoid has been blown out of proportion.

Give this man a cookie

[SeanF]

Like Newstar, I incline towards her being complicit in SR's demise.

[Annara Snow]

How many chapters are there in the series that are not likely to be "controversial" to anyone?

Also, they say it's controversial "in certain quarters of fandom"? Wouldn't something like Sansa helping off Sweetrobin be controversial to everyone?

I bet when we finally learn what it is, it's going to look like a mountain made of a molehill. Who knows what this editor finds "controversial"? Heck, for all I know, maybe she just masturbates or something and they think it's "controversial". LOL

Maybe the controversial Sansa chapter is the one where she dies** without ever doing anything which will lead to the controversial discussion what her character was needed for in the first place (to show us, even in fantasy books you can have a boring, insignificant life?)?

** yes, I know that GRRM hasn't killed characters in their own POV so far (except for maybe Jon Snow).

He did that to Catelyn, didn't he? We may not have seen the actual moment of death in the chapter, but we did see everything that had lead up to it, and Catelyn had already gone insane so she wouldn't register her throat being slit.

But anyone who thinks that Sansa is insignificant or is going to die soon is just engaging in some character hate wishful thinking.

Maybe Sansa does something really important and badass that becomes controversial in the quarters of fandom who hate her and insist that she's boring and stupid and passive?

[Shadowflame]

If (or when) Sansa finds out that Littlefinger was responsible for her father being arrested and later beheaded, we're probably going to see a much different Sansa toward LF. And doesn't she still have that famous hairnet? I think she packed it when she left King's Landing.

[Newstar]

Maybe the controversial Sansa chapter is the one where she dies**

I'm pretty sure another Stark dying--even the least popular Stark--would be controversial among all quarters of the fandom, not just some of them. Ditto for something like Sansa being raped (although I've already said I doubt GRRM would do that). "Might be controversial among certain quarters of the fandom" implies that the remainder of the fandom wouldn't have a problem with whatever happens in the chapter, which means it's unlikely to be anything too, too extreme.

** yes, I know that GRRM hasn't killed characters in their own POV so far (except for maybe Jon Snow).

Cat died in her own POV. Didn't stick, of course. :D

Maybe Sansa does something really important and badass that becomes controversial in the quarters of fandom who hate her and insist that she's boring and stupid and passive?

Doubt it. Sansa doing something important and badass would mollify her haters, not piss them off. They've been waiting for five books for her to "earn her keep" as a Stark. If she actually did something amazing, I don't think her haters would have a problem with it. Quite the opposite, actually. Sansa doing something amazing would be the least controversial development possible.

Thinking this through, though, what are the most controversial bits of Sansa's arc to date that have generated the most argument? I'd say it would be 1) Sansa remaining neutral at Arya and Nymeria's mini-trial in AGOT and 2) Sansa going to Cersei. They seem to be controversial because some perceived these actions as Sansa going against her family. Maybe the controversial chapter will involve Sansa going against the Starks or selling out her remaining relatives in some fashion, although since she doesn't even know they're alive, I don't know how she would manage that. Maybe Rickon gets back and she decides to go to war with him or something.

[Lord Fred of Mole's Town]

I'm hoping the editor is just being sensational to keep interest in the series. Sansa kissing Littlefinger was controversial for me in AFFC.

"Sansa kissed LF?" It's the other way around during the snow castle scene, leading to Lysa's moondive. I think Sansa and Mya will be a devious force to be reckoned with in the Vale, hairnet or not, once they start sharing more. A brooding, plotting, vengeful, "proactive" Sansa is absolutely welcome from my perspective.

[Woman of War]

"Sansa kissed LF?" It's the other way around during the snow castle scene, leading to Lysa's moondive. I think Sansa and Mya will be a devious force to be reckoned with in the Vale, hairnet or not, once they start sharing more. A brooding, plotting, vengeful, "proactive" Sansa is absolutely welcome from my perspective.

Yes, everyone is waiting for the moment when Sansa might become "proactive". But how active would she be alllowed to become and yet her fans might still see her as morally good without having to come up with all kinds of whitewashing?

Kill LF: would we excuse this as karmic justice even if Sansa has no idea about Baelish's part in Ned's death?

Or wouldn't it be outright murder if not done in direct self defense? Yes, you commit murder even when it happens a to be a bad guy you kill intentionally without being in direct danger.

Kill Sweetrobin? Maybe proactive but, well, child murder.

Seduce LF in order to gain power over him? Clever or immoral? I'd go for clever.

Let herself be seduced by LF ? (I am assuming that rape will not happen here). Just dumb or immoral? I'd go for dumb.

And will she turn dumb into clever - or immoral? Depends entirely on the reader's viewpoint. Making use of her second purse is a legitimate weapon of women in that world, while some may call the same thing immoral prostitution.

Start a war - the well known question: what injustice justifies some noblewoman or -man to start a war and to kill thousands of smallfolk about a strife that is not theirs?

Sooo many possibilites where Sansa could become active and turn out as flawed as any other active character in the series.

[Newstar]

Kill LF: would we excuse this as karmic justice even if Sansa has no idea about Baelish's part in Ned's death?

Would anyone apart from maybe Littlefinger stans have a problem with Sansa killing Littlefinger, regardless of her reasons? He deserves to die for what he did to Jeyne Poole alone.

Yes, everyone is waiting for the moment when Sansa might become "proactive".

I think the fandom reaction would depend on the form her "proactive" actions takes:

Killing LF? Awesome.

Competently plotting LF's downfall? Awesome.

Saving Sweetrobin? Awesome.

Corralling the Vale's resources to the North's aid? Awesome.

And so on. However, I can imagine the fandom reaction being decidedly more mixed, or even on the whole negative, if her "proactive" action takes the following shapes:

Plotting to murder Sweetrobin? Awful.

Murdering Sweetrobin? Awful.

Plotting LF's downfall or some or other scheme, but making a total botch of it (a la Arianne's "crowning" scheme)? Awful.

Going against the Starks/North? Awful.

Freely and consciously (as opposed to the Marillion issue) throwing innocents under the bus to advance Littlefinger's schemes? Awful.

And so on.