Queen Alysanne™ Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I know this has been discussed on several of occasions however I haven't actually seen any evidence except for her association with stars so I looked into this a bit more and after some rereads and research I am leaning toward Quaithe being Shiera Seastar a lot now.First a little back round on Shiera: Her name?As we all know she was one of the great bastards and her name was Shiera meaning star of the sea. What does her name have to do with Quaithe? Well I tried to break up the word Quaithe and I found some interesting clues.Quai is a french word for dock, it also is an english word Quay meaning the same thing-aithe is similar to the english word staithe which also means dock.Docks are what ships connect to unload or load from land or unto land, perhaps the dock that unloads.Now join the two together- Quay and staithe and you get Quaithe.Docks are on sea which is another connection to shiera aka "seastar".Perhaps the figurative dock that removes Dany from Essos and lands her on Westeros. Her name Shiera means star of the sea does this have any relevance to her role to Dany? Yes it does. In the history of the catholic church, star of the sea was an ancient title for the Virgin Mary. This title was used for gentiles who were referred to as "the sea" and this meant anyone that was beyond the "coasts", meaning out of Israeli territory. So this ancient title meant Mary aka the star of the sea was a guide for anyone who was living their life out on sea or out of Israel. This is very similar to Dany who is not in westerosi territory and living her life over the narrow sea and in the dothraki sea, which would mean that Shiera is Dany's star of the sea guiding her. Is there any connection to the star called Stella Maris which also means "sea-star"? Stella Maris is a star that was used for navigation in the old days. That is Captains and crew used it to navigate themself across a sea, that is why it was given the name sea-star. Shiera/ Quaithe is also Dany's navigation/Stella maris/ "sea-star". Examples from the text. “If you have some warning for me, speak plainly. What do you want of me, Quaithe?” Moonlight shone in the woman’s eyes. “To show you the way.” “I remember the way. I go north to go south, east to go west, back to go forward. And to touch the light I have to pass beneath the shadow.” These examples show that Quaithe is Dany's "sea-star" , that is her navigation to get to westeros which further hints at Quiathe being sea-star/Shiera. Also: “To go forward I must go back,” she said. Her bare legs tightened around the dragon’s neck. She kicked him, and Drogon threw himself into the sky. Her whip was gone, so she used her hands and feet and turned him north by east, the way the scout had gone. Drogon went willingly enough; perhaps he smelled the rider’s fear. This again shows Dany using Quaithe's directions as navigation, again points towards her being seastar. Quaithe has been communicating with Dany through stars, twice in the dothraki sea, a star in the sea. She dreamed. All her cares fell away from her, and all her pains as well, and she seemed to float upward into the sky. She was flying once again, spinning, laughing, dancing, as the stars wheeled around her and whispered secrets in her ear. “To go north, you must journey south. To reach the west, you must go east. To go forward, you must go back. To touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.” “Quaithe?” Dany called. “Where are you, Quaithe?” Then she saw. Her mask is made of starlight. “Remember who you are, Daenerys,” the stars whispered in a woman’s voice. “The dragons know. Do you?” -ADWD Dany in the dothraki sea. After that, for a long time, there was only the pain, the fire within her, and the whisperings of stars.-AGOT Dany in the Dothraki sea Quaithe said she is from Asshai how can she be Shiera? She spoke to Dany in the common tongue and also the WOIAF app says she speaks westerosi flawlessly. Also: “No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun’s son and the mummer’s dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal.”This quote stood out for me since she describes all the people coming to Dany by their westerosi sigils which means she has a high knowledge of westeros. Why would she hide? "Like her mother, she was reputed to practice the dark arts. Though she never wed, she had many offers, and several lovers through the years. Duels were fought over the right to sit beside her, men killed themselves after falling from her favor, poets outdid each other writing songs about her beauty." Which means she is a legend anyone would recognize her Conclusion:I think alot points towards Quaithe being Shiera that is a star of the sea. I think Quaithe is Shiera and is the star of the sea guiding Dany and navigating her to get to westeros. Now people will probably ask "why cant Quaithe be Quaithe?" Well the same could be asked why is Shiera's name the star of the sea, and we know of a star that is guiding a character we know across the dothraki sea, possibly the narrow sea and then to westeros. This points towards Quaithe and I think she is Shiera Seastar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 This is very good analysis Queen Alysanne. I don't have much to offer on Christian history, but the textual evidence is good. Especially the fact that she mentions the people by their Westerosi sigils. And the detail towards Etymology is intriguing. Certainly agreeable for me. Edit: The last quote does explain the need for a mask. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 This is very good analysis Queen Alysanne. I don't have much to offer on Christian history, but the textual evidence is good. Especially the fact that she mentions the people by their Westerosi sigils. And the detail towards Etymology is intriguing. Certainly agreeable for me. Edit: The last quote does explain the need for a mask. ;) Yea I was shocked myself when I saw the meaning of sea star in our world and I think thats where GRRM got the name for Shiera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Really intereesting read, and it would explain why Quaithe has saught out Dany. Do you think that she might be working in conjunction with BR. She is preparing Dany and BR is preparing Brand and Jon? The quote that you use, she might have been talking about the actual Others. “No. Hear me, Daenerys Targaryen. The glass candles are burning. Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun’s son and the mummer’s dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal.” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iona Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 This quote stood out for me since she describes all the people coming to Dany by their westerosi sigils which means she has a high knowledge of westeros. Permit me to argue against this point. It could be that she is alike Melisandre here, and that she sees symbols that she in fact cannot interpret (which is what Melisandre does and often gets it wrong). So she is only describing Dany the things she has foreseen, in the way she saw them, without actually being able to connect them to the correct Westerosi noble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 Really intereesting read, and it would explain why Quaithe has saught out Dany. Do you think that she might be working in conjunction with BR. She is preparing Dany and BR is preparing Brand and Jon? The quote that you use, she might have been talking about the actual Others. Thats what I'm thinking since she wants Dany to go north. Or It could just be another parallel of Bran and Dany's arcs, both being guided by one of the great bastards. Nice catch, she could very well be talking about the others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 Permit me to argue against this point. It could be that she is alike Melisandre here, and that she sees symbols that she in fact cannot interpret (which is what Melisandre does and often gets it wrong). So she is only describing Dany the things she has foreseen, in the way she saw them, without actually being able to connect them to the correct Westerosi noble. Quaithe didnt see any visions, she is using glass candles to see distances far and wide I think. " It claimed that when the glass candles burn the sorcerers could see across mountains, seas and deserts, give men visions and dreams and communicate with one another half a world apart" My guess is she saw those people and told Dany about them in symbols, she didnt see them in a vision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Thats what I'm thinking since she wants Dany to go north.Or It could just be another parallel of Bran and Dany's arcs, both being guided by one of the great bastards.Nice catch, she could very well be talking about the others. Thanks. I bolded that part because it reminds me of that Tyrion quote: "We are puppets dancing on the strings of those who came before us, and one day our our own children will take up our strings and dance on in our steads." I don't think in this instance that this is particularly a bad thing. I happen to think that Quaithe is genuin in trying to guide Dany. Honestly, she's the only one getting Dany's a$$ in gear to get to Westeros. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Turtle Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I don't think that the clues are strong enough, but if true I wonder if she would be on the same side as her former lover Bloodraven. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 Thanks. I bolded that part because it reminds me of that Tyrion quote: "We are puppets dancing on the strings of those who came before us, and one day our our own children will take up our strings and dance on in our steads." I don't think in this instance that this is particularly a bad thing. I happen to think that Quaithe is genuin in trying to guide Dany. Honestly, she's the only one getting Dany's a$$ in gear to get to Westeros. :)Good quote one of the "wits and wisdom" of Tyrion Lannister haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Dayne's Honor Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Thanks Alysanne for bringin this to our forums Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Great breakdown of the name Quaithe! Regarding Quaithe being Shiera, there might be a problem with her eyes. We see in Dany's POV that Quaithe's eyes are described, yet not the colour ie. they don't stand out. Quaithes eyes are the one thing that can be noticed. I think Dany would notice if the eyes were mismatched, like Shiera's, as two different eye colours are so rare. I find this very problematic. This doesn't effect your idea in any way , but I think it's 'Seastar' that means star of the sea, not Shiera. The ssm can be read both ways... "the daughter she named Shiera, Star of the Sea" So either Shiera means star of the sea, or Grrm is using Seastar interchangeably with star of the sea. The reason I think it's the latter, is because Shierak is dothraki for 'star'. Given Serenei, her mother , was from Essos, I find it likely that Shiera was influenced by that word, just for star. Shiera is more likley to just mean star. With regard to Quaithe being a navigator, I agree, she seems somewhat like a shepherd to me, gently guiding her. I agree she's likely from Westeros, with the common tongue she chose to spoke when we first saw her - remember Pyat and Xaro spoke foreign languages in contrast. Good post. ETA - Bloodraven talks of seeing loved ones die IIRC. I always assumed this meant Shiera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoIaF Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 I don't think that the clues are strong enough, but if true I wonder if she would be on the same side as her former lover Bloodraven. Maybe I'm being naive (wouldn’t be the first time) but the Others seem to me to be an enemy of both BR / Bran /Jon and Quaithe / Dany. It seems like a threat to all of them which means they’d work together. Also, if Quaithe is SS it would parallel her and BR living this long in preparation for the return of the Others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 Thanks Alysanne for bringin this to our forums Np thanks for reading aswell :) Great breakdown of the name Quaithe! Regarding Quaithe being Shiera, there might be a problem with her eyes. We see in Dany's POV that Quaithe's eyes are described, yet not the colour ie. they don't stand out. Quaithes eyes are the one thing that can be noticed. I think Dany would notice if the eyes were mismatched, like Shiera's, as two different eye colours are so rare. I find this very problematic. This doesn't effect your idea in any way , but I think it's 'Seastar' that means star of the sea, not Shiera. The ssm can be read both ways... "the daughter she named Shiera, Star of the Sea" So either Shiera means start of the sea, or Grrm is using Seastar interchangeably with star of the sea. The reason I think it's the latter, is because Shierak is dothraki for 'star'. Given Serenei, her mother , was from Essos, I find it likely that Shiera was influenced by that word, just for star. Shiera is more likley to just mean star. With regard to Quaithe being a navigator, I agree, she seems somewhat like a shepherd to me, gently guiding her. I agree she's likely from Westeros, with the common tongue she chose to spoke when we first saw her - remember Pyat and Xaro spoke foreign languages in contrast. Good post. Thanks, I agree the eye colours of Shiera was one of the iffy parts I was thinking about. Some of the possible thoughts I came up with were that since she is hiding her identity her eyes being the most standing out part of her appearance would be what she would hide, probably with a glamour spell like what Melisandre used., and the glamour is what makes it appear "shiny". Or GRRM intentionally didn't describe it fully as people would notice that it is her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arya kiddin' Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 Or GRRM intentionally didn't describe it fully as people would notice that it is her. Err, this is giving me an idea that when she encounters Tyrion, she believes him rightaway because his eyes are really like Quaithe. "If I look back I'm lost". Just a crackpot. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrs.Grumpy Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 If she is wearing a glamor then why would she bother herself with a mask? And her eyes are blue in WOIAF App. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 If she is wearing a glamor then why would she bother herself with a mask? And her eyes are blue in WOIAF App. Thats a good point, it could be for many reasons, the glamour she is using must be someone dead and she might want to hide that aswell, its something to look into for sure, or she could just be hiding her real face and Dany didnt notice it. One of shiera's eye is blue, maybe it wouldnt be hard for her to hide the other one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 Err, this is giving me an idea that when she encounters Tyrion, she believes him rightaway because his eyes are really like Quaithe. "If I look back I'm lost". Just a crackpot. :) Yea Im looking forward to how Dany describes Tyrion's eye it might give some info on how Dany views eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yolkboy Posted October 31, 2013 Share Posted October 31, 2013 If she is wearing a glamor then why would she bother herself with a mask? And her eyes are blue in WOIAF App. I looked on the app and i could see nothing about blue eyes. Am i missing something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queen Alysanne™ Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 I looked on the app and i could see nothing about blue eyes. Am i missing something? Yea I was wondering that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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