Stannis and Randyl

[Roose The Weddingcrasher]

Well Stannis' living heir is a young girl with grey scale on her face. The world in which they live deems women to be generally inferior to men, especially in the case of rule (<Edit: please read that last bit carefully, I am not advocating this idea - it is the world in which they live) Add to this the fact that Shireen is cursed with a grey scale infliction, can we not say this a child Randyll would have tried to get rid off if she was his only heir in favour of a nephew?

Who is to say, but in the WoW preview chapter, Stannis tells Massey that if Stannis is to die in the coming battle, that he should still fight and put Shireen on the throne. He seems willingly to put a 'weak' child on the throne, because it his (and thus her) right - just as the Tarly lordship should have been Sam's right...

Also this.

[Lost Melnibonean]

OP: Well I guess it's a good thing Jon didn't get a chance to send Sweetrobin to Dragonstone!

[GallowsKnight]

I disagree about his treatment of Sam. There's no way Stannis the scorned second brother would disinherit his own son.

He might unleash his own scathing brand of humour on him and ignore him a lot but he'd never be as outright cruel to him.

Also this means Sam would be raised by Cressen and his mother would be Selyse, who is a nutjob. So Sam might turn out wiser and a little less of a mother's boy. Davos (and Devan his son in particular) might also be a positive influence on Sam.

OP: Well I guess it's a good thing Jon didn't get a chance to send Sweetrobin to Dragonstone!

I disagree. Stannis might be cold and stern. He'd likely marry Shireen to Sweetrobin in an effort to rally the Vale to his Claim. So Stannis would use him. But he'd be safe and in a position of importance.

But it wouldn't be the disturbing mother-son relationship he had with Lysa or the toxic environment where Littlefinger is at least anticpating his death and possibly outright planning it.

[Fat Mac]

I disagree about his treatment of Sam. There's no way Stannis the scorned second brother would disinherit his own son.

He might unleash his own scathing brand of humour on him and ignore him a lot but he'd never be as outright cruel to him.

Also this means Sam would be raised by Cressen and his mother would be Selyse, who is a nutjob. So Sam might turn out wiser and a little less of a mother's boy. Davos (and Devan his son in particular) might also be a positive influence on Sam.

Haha thats weird because Selyse is his first cousin once removed :p. I always forget Sam is related to the Florents.

[RoamingRonin]

I'm not saying Stannis is father of the year, but throughout most of the series he is a little too preoccupied to be spending oodles of time with his daughter.

But we know that he doesn't have that much of a relationship with his wife or daughter, even before the war.

[Lost Melnibonean]

I disagree. Stannis might be cold and stern. He'd likely marry Shireen to Sweetrobin in an effort to rally the Vale to his Claim. So Stannis would use him. But he'd be safe and in a position of importance.

But it wouldn't be the disturbing mother-son relationship he had with Lysa or the toxic environment where Littlefinger is at least anticpating his death and possibly outright planning it.

I was just joking around dude.

[Djinn]

Don't think so, as others have mentioned, Stannis behaviour to Shireen(distant but dutiful) disproves to particular brand of cruel that Randyll has. I mean, in some aspects, Randyll is even worse then Tywin, because if Tyrion had wanted to join the Cidadel or the Faith, Tywin would likely support him on it(even if it was just a way to distance Tyrion from the Lannister name), not throw some hissy fit about serving(while following a fat flower). Stannis is far from being parent of the year, but i don't think he's in the monster parent category either.

[Pod The Impaler]

Stannis behaviour to Shireen(distant but dutiful) disproves to particular brand of cruel that Randyll has.

I agree. Stannis would be a hard, strict father, but I don't think he would tell his son that he either goes to the Wall or has a hunting accident, because he views his own child as defective.

Randyll is more like Tywin, I agree also. Not for the same reasons, but he what he shares with Tywin is the way of utterly crushing their child's desire to find some other sort of self-worth.

Incidentally, I think Tywin also rejected Tyrion's desire to become a maester, for much the same reasons. I seem to recall Tyrion mentioning this at some point.

[IRON BANK]

I think Stannis would have actually trained Sam harder. I do not think giving up on Sam would have been an option. I looked at Randyl as a quiter, and Stannis seems more direct and goal oriented. Sam would have had to train until he got it right. Randyl has the option by having multiple Sons, letting one go to his own devices is not a problem. Stannis on the other hand would not let anything go. Sam would be trained

[Thendel]

Don't think so, as others have mentioned, Stannis behaviour to Shireen(distant but dutiful) disproves to particular brand of cruel that Randyll has. I mean, in some aspects, Randyll is even worse then Tywin, because if Tyrion had wanted to join the Cidadel or the Faith, Tywin would likely support him on it(even if it was just a way to distance Tyrion from the Lannister name), not throw some hissy fit about serving(while following a fat flower). Stannis is far from being parent of the year, but i don't think he's in the monster parent category either.

IIRC, Tyrion wanted to be a septon in his younger years, but Tywin utterly crushed these notions, expecting him to stay eligible for political marriages and the like. He didn't chain him up in the dungeons, but the comparison holds.

[Winter's Knight]

IIRC, Tyrion wanted to be a septon in his younger years, but Tywin utterly crushed these notions, expecting him to stay eligible for political marriages and the like. He didn't chain him up in the dungeons, but the comparison holds.

Tyrion dropped the idea of becoming a septon when he hit puberty.

[Thendel]

Tyrion dropped the idea of becoming a septon when he hit puberty.

You are right, and I consider myself having misrembered: Tywin shot Tyrion down for wanting to tour the Free Cities.

[Mad Monkey]

I can't imagine Stannis being a kinslayer like Randyll was prepared to be. Shireen might even be a worse heir than Sam because of her affliction but we never hear Stannis talking about having her murdered or even replaced by someone else.

[Russo]

Aren't we just assuming Stannis never spends any time with his daughter? No one says anything like that in the text do they?

Considering he is only in scenes with other POVs, and probably 90% of these are in war councils etc. There hasnt really been a chance to see him with his daughter.

IIRC there is not one scene in the books with Jon and Sansa conversing at all. Do we then assume they never spoke? I think its obvious they arent as close as Jon and Arya but I dont think they wouldnt speak at all....

[Lady of Long Lake]

Aren't we just assuming Stannis never spends any time with his daughter? No one says anything like that in the text do they?

Considering he is only in scenes with other POVs, and probably 90% of these are in war councils etc. There hasnt really been a chance to see him with his daughter.

IIRC there is not one scene in the books with Jon and Sansa conversing at all. Do we then assume they never spoke? I think its obvious they arent as close as Jon and Arya but I dont think they wouldnt speak at all....

That's my feeling to. We have no POV that would show us Stannis and his daughter's relationship so we can't assume there is none.

[Victor227]

Sam would probably confuse the hell out of Stannis. Still, we have no examples whatsoever of how Stannis would treat a son. We don't know if it would be the type of 'thing' that would cause him to break out of the shell that most people describe him as having, nor do we know if he'd treat Sam cruelly in an attempt to break his nature. Obviously Shireen isn't that close to Stannis. Despite being his heir, he doesn't bring her to councils, or have her spend much time with himself and advisers, but that's mostly because she's a woman, and in their society, that's simply not her place.

In the end, I'd say that personal lives aside, they're very similar in that both are men that you'd want to run a war, and neither are men that most people want as king. For all the harshness, Randyl Tarly manages to put Maidenpool back in order in no time flat, becoming de-facto ruler of the town and enforcing a harsh peace. That certainly seems very Stannis-like.

[devilrob6]

Bases on Stannis' relationship with Shireen, Stannis would flat out ignore Sam at every opportunity which is a different kind of cruelty.

Is there textual evidence that Stannis ignores Shireen? How many moments in the books are Stannis and Shireen present in one room together with a POV character. We don't know if Stannis and Shireen spent time togther while he's at Dragonstone, We do know that he's very often absent. Stannis in Kings Landing, Shireen at Dragonstone. Stannis marching on Deepwood Motte and Winterfell, Shireen at the Wall. But the books never claim that Stannis willingly ignores Shireen, so i don't see why he'd do it to Sam. But he probably would flat out say what he didn't like about Sam, like he does with everyone else. And he sees Shireen as a suitable heir, despite of her greyscale and despite of being a little girl. He'd have accepted Sam as his heir as well. Because he knows that by law it is their right.