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Who is the best military commander in fire and ice?


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He needed to Roose there to limit Tywin's possibilities. At least that's my take on it.

Well, that does work as an explanation. It just sort of sucks that roose is such a dick. Poor robb.

Condescending much?

What do you think gave Stannis more trouble in this attack on Mance's 'army'? The women... or the children?

I wasnt trying to be condescending. My bad if I came off as such.

Anyhow, as bbe said, among those women and kids were about 20k wildling warriors(give or take a few) these guys are fighting amongst each other pretty much constantly before mance united them. They are hard men and though they might not have formal training and good equipment they are still capable of performing well. Granted, stannis men were better trained and armed, but that isnt the only reason they won. Stannis' plan had a ton to do with that.

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Never losing a battle doesnt make you the best automatically. Just as losing one or even a few battles doesnt automatically make you a shit leader. Look at Napoleon saladin, etc.

I agree that robb was good, but he seems to me to be more of a leader of cavalry. I mean, he gives the infantry to roose in got and then just sort of forgets about them. Always struck me as odd for some sort of military genius.

Isn't that pretty much what Alexander the great did? :D

On the topic of Robb(I was never a fan of Robb): I don't think he had very good strategy but for the time he fought it did work and he did win battle after battle. It's an important detail.

@TheCrannogDweller: I agree the Blackfish needs more credit.

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Take one out of

- Jon Arryn (Experiences in the Wot5Pk and successful senior commander in RR)

And the War of the Ninepenny Kings. Which brings the question, what about the Blackfish? A lot of Robb's victories can arguably be credited to his good counsel.

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And the War of the Ninepenny Kings. Which brings the question, what about the Blackfish? A lot of Robb's victories can arguably be credited to his good counsel.

Wot5PK = War of the five Penny Kings. Something got mixed up :blushing:

The Blackfish is good, but he lacks examples as the one being in command himself. Listening to good counsel - and identifying what is good counsel - is another sign for a good commander.

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I firmly believe Robb could have kept winning if not for the whole marriage blunder. He could have gone on to to be one of the greatest military commanders ever. And the battle at the wall was impressive, but don't forget that Stannis hit the wildling with heavy calvary and the wildlings broke and ran. Not undermining his victory, but training really does play out a lot in battles.

Sources: once defeated an army of the worst sword units in Shogun 2: Total War with a few calvary units :P

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Never losing a battle doesnt make you the best automatically. Just as losing one or even a few battles doesnt automatically make you a shit leader. Look at Napoleon saladin, etc.

You're saying Napoleon and Saladin shit leaders?

Being great military commander doesen't require winning. Wars aren't solved only by military skills, but with politics, economy and chance, too. Both Napoleon and Saladin were brilliant commanders, much better than those who opposed them. History is full of great commanders who won battles but lost a war. Never losing battle is a quite feat, especially when attacking and having fewer men than the enemy. Robb annihilated Jaime's 15k host and then Stafford Lannister's new army, all this with about six thousand troops. He had Blackfish as his advisor, too, but his greatest victories came before meeting with Tullys.

I firmly believe Robb could have kept winning if not for the whole marriage blunder. He could have gone on to to be one of the greatest military commanders ever.

Yeah. If he wouldn't let Theon go and would've kept his promise to Freys, North&Riverlandsn would now be an inpendent kingdom and there's nothing Lannisters could do to it.

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These topics always make me wish we had a bit more information on the battles. Of the povs the only witnesses or people that take part in the fighting are cat, tyrion, davos, dany and, i cant remember anyone else? Really really wish we had some closer looks at this stuff.


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You're saying Napoleon and Saladin shit leaders?

Being great military commander doesen't require winning. Wars aren't solved only by military skills, but with politics, economy and chance, too. Both Napoleon and Saladin were brilliant commanders, much better than those who opposed them. History is full of great commanders who won battles but lost a war. Never losing battle is a quite feat, especially when attacking and having fewer men than the enemy. Robb annihilated Jaime's 15k host and then Stafford Lannister's new army, all this with about six thousand troops. He had Blackfish as his advisor, too, but his greatest victories came before meeting with Tullys.

lol brah, you misunderstood what I said. I specifically said "Never losing a battle doesnt make you the best automatically. Just as losing one or even a few battles doesnt automatically make you a shit leader. Look at Napoleon saladin, etc."

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You're saying Napoleon and Saladin shit leaders?

I think he was saying even though they lost a few times, No one will ever dispute that they were excellent. For example, one could say that Stannis sucks because Blackwater, but they'd also have to be like Napoleon is the worst because Waterloo, neither of which are true.

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E-Ro even Stannis was impressed and a little jelly of Robb's skills

Oh, I do certainly think robb was a really good commander. And especially given some more time he really could have come to shine. I just think he needed a bit more experience and time to learn. His victories are most impressive two major surprise attacks and tons of skirmishes in the west are nothing to scoff at. I just think there are better leaders out there, but he had the most potential.

I think he was saying even though they lost a few times, No one will ever dispute that they were excellent. For example, one could say that Stannis sucks because Blackwater, but they'd also have to be like Napoleon is the worst because Waterloo, neither of which are true.
^Yeah. Perhaps I worded it awkwardly, but this is what was meant.
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I think Stannis at the Wall has to go on the plus side for Stannis, there's no way it should be called an easy bully job.

But it's a stretch to say he was like an underdog and overcame some great odds, I think Vegas bookies would make the line heavily in Stannis favor.

But he still won and should get good commander credit for it

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Best Naval Commander - Vic Greyjoy

We know of one major naval battle that he's lead. He was outwitted (which isn't hard to do), and trapped completely by.... Stannis. So I fail to see how he earns this title yet.

We have a list of remarkable generals in the series. We have a list of good admirals too (a shorter list, but still a list). Stannis is the only one that falls perfectly in to both, which is why I go with him for best military commander.

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We know of one major naval battle that he's lead. He was outwitted (which isn't hard to do), and trapped completely by.... Stannis. So I fail to see how he earns this title yet.

We have a list of remarkable generals in the series. We have a list of good admirals too (a shorter list, but still a list). Stannis is the only one that falls perfectly in to both, which is why I go with him for best military commander.

Yeah. Stannis has fought in sieges on both ends(defend and attacking), surprise attacks, and naval warfare. the only thing he hasnt done is a pitched battle. But those are rare, like, really rare and its generally thought that they are far too risky and so should be avoided. so its not an issue. He has experience in all theaters of war. Defending, attacking, surprising, and leading a fleet.
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just to throw some nice content ,robb's victory at the whispering wood was compared to the field of fire ,arguably the greatest battle (between men as to not include the long night ) in the history of westeros

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just to throw some nice content ,robb's victory at the whispering wood was compared to the field of fire ,arguably the greatest battle (between men as to not include the long night ) in the history of westeros

By Theon, who massively overstates things.

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Perhaps you can't tell for sure who the best general in Westeros is (I'd say either Stannis or Euron). But Stannis is by far the most versatile commander of the entire lot. That has to count for something.


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