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The Structured Implied in the House of the Undying Prophecies


Mithras

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I am thoroughly bamboozled, see comments in blue.

My apologies, I should of explained what we're were trying to figure out. We were trying to see if the trio of Fire, Mount,Treasons could correspond with the Daughter of Death, Slayer of Lies, bride of Fire set. The table was setup so all the items appear in the correct order. Now, as you noted they don't quite add up, although I should mention that I don't believe the mounts are sex partners, I believe they may be actual mounts.

If you look at the sets without the trio, then they seem to point at specific people (and make more sense): :)

First Item in Each Set - Dany?

Daughter of Death: Viserys and the molten gold

Slayer of Lies: The blue-eyed king with no shadow and the red sword -> Stannis

Bride of Fire: The silver trotting in the grass

Second Item in Each Set - Aegon

Daughter of Death: Rhaego as he would have been if he lived -> Rhaego, like Aegon, will never fulfill the prophecy he was supposed to have.

Slayer of Lies: The mummer's dragon -> The Aegon out there now isn't really Aegon.

Bride of Fire: Corpse on the ship, smiling sadly -> JonCon, dying but happy to "make it up" to Rhaegar, putting "Aegon" on the throne.

Third Item in Each Set - Jon if you believe the beast is either him or relates to him somehow

Daughter of Death: Rhaegar dying and whispering a woman's name -> Rhaegar probably whispering Lyanna's name, Jon's parents

Slayer of Lies: The stone beast taking wing and breathing shadow fire -> Jon as the stone dragon beast

Bride of Fire: The blue flower in the wall of ice -> Jon on the Wall

Here is a little crackpot about the trio: http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/98283-the-stone-beast-breathing-shadow-fire/?p=5056085

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Fires



life= birth of the dragons



death= not sure but i'm leaning towards the sack of astapor. or maybe meereen will fall/die because of the dragons' fire?


i dont think it relates to rhaego or viserys since i believe the prophecies are told in chronological order (or at least it seems like that to me).



love= didnt happen yet (the vision of rhaegar's death is not truly related to Dany so i dont think it fits here)



Mounts



bed= Drogo



dread=Drogon



love= didnt happen yet. but i believe it could be Jon (it's cliche and i dont like it but since my first read of ACoK, i feel he will be her love once they get to know each other)





Treasons



Blood= MMD. she is the most obvious one but jorah could fit here too since his betrayal in the beginning was more to get back to his family (blood) than for gold, imo.



Gold= Hizdahr??? i'm not sure about this one.



Love= not yet. if i'm right and she will love Jon once she meets him, then it could be him (jon AA and dany nissa nissa??). i'm not sure about this one as well


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To tell the truth I find all the other stuff about the House of Undying fascinating rather than any prophetic glimpses she gets (which don't seem like value for the risk except that like Quaithe they remind her of the lies that are flying about).



The place is a giant trap to lure people in for the Undying to feed off. The rooms have sights to tempt people in to their deaths. Its called House of Dust by the ordinary people because that what it is to most of those who enter - the house of the dead (dust to dust). Of course the servitors are rats because who else would be 'serving' corpses.



I think the sight of the beautiful woman with the rats seen in one room may be not so much a vision as a glimpse of what happens if you do set foot in a room. Certainly I don't think its Westeros with four kings gnawing at her - someone in the references and homages thread relates it to a myth about the Norse God Freya who craved a golden necklet that the dwarves had made, and agreed to their price of sleeping with them to get it. Based on this I'd say if its anyone, its Cersei trading sex with the Kettleblacks and Lancel to keep the crown (as she believes). She has a nightmare at one point in which she is chained in a dungeon with Tyrion gnawing on her breast, which is like this vision.



Also the way Dany destroys the House and its occupants at the end - she does become a slayer of lies, because she slays all the lies they tried to trick her with to keep her there.


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I think this is about Euron (Crackpot time)

I think it's Maester Aemon. Like when Moqorro sees "dragons, true and false, young and old". There's already plenty referring to Aegon, and there's a vision of every other living Targ at some point in the HotU. But whether the old man is a Fire, a Mount, or a Treason, I can't say.

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Apple Martini and I discussed something similar in the Stone Beast, Shadow Fire thread. We speculated that each set was related to a single person. We were unsure of the first set although I believe it to be Dany. The second set seems to relate to Aegon and the third to Jon. Now, I know there is discussion that the stone beast is not Jon, but perhaps if not him per se it is related to him somehow.

I love the HOTU but it is so cryptic.

Here is how we organized the prophecies:

First Item in Each Set

(Fire) One for Life - Daughter of Death: Viserys and the molten gold

(Mounts) One to Bed - Slayer of Lies: The blue-eyed king with no shadow and the red sword -> Stannis

(Treasons) Once for Blood - Bride of Fire: The silver trotting in the grass

Second Item in Each Set

(Fires) One for Death - Daughter of Death: Rhaego as he would have been if he lived -> Rhaego, like Aegon, will never fulfill the prophecy he was supposed to have.

(Mounts) One to Dread - Slayer of Lies: The mummer's dragon -> The Aegon out there now isn't really Aegon.

(Treasons) Once for Gold - Bride of Fire: Corpse on the ship, smiling sadly -> JonCon, dying but happy to "make it up" to Rhaegar, putting "Aegon" on the throne.

Third Item in Each Set

(Fires) One to Love - Daughter of Death: Rhaegar dying and whispering a woman's name -> Rhaegar probably whispering Lyanna's name, Jon's parents

(Mounts) One to Love: Slayer of Lies: The stone beast taking wing and breathing shadow fire -> Jon as the stone dragon beast, Jon's "fire" side

(Treasons) Once for Love - Bride of Fire: The blue flower in the wall of ice -> Jon on the Wall, Jon's "ice" side

Imo "Corpse on the ship, smiling sadly" should be Tyrion.

JonCon never smiles, it's remarked way more than once by Tyrion during their sailing, plus if we assume that the Sailor's wife is Tysha, we have to consider that her love is already a "corpse".

Also, assuming like I believe that Tyrion has already contracted greyscale, grey lips suits more him than JonCon.

Cohincidentally, this way all the three "treason" visions are about: Dany, Tyrion and Jon Snow.

My two cents, of course.

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M1. Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow.

M2. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd.

M3. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire.

... mother of dragons, slayer of lies...

This is the only set I'm ready to speculate on.

M1. Pretty sure this is Stannis with his wannabe-Lightbringer and all out of shadows after all the babymaking. OK, so Dany will have to slay this lie.

M2. I'm convinced it's fAegon, Dany must prove he's fake.

M3. This is where it gets interesting. I know there are theories about this being Jon and all that. But when I look at this, I can't help but to think of Melisandre.

She's been going on and on about king's blood and waking dragons out of stone. So my theory is that at some point Mel will go ahead with sacrificing someone with royal juice in their veins (Shireen might be available, sorry... :/ ) to wake up a stone dragon. If you ask me, this won't be a real dragon hatching from an egg or one that's been hibernating inside the Wall or at Winterfell. I think she goes all nuts with her shadow binding skillz and creates a mighty beast that spits out shadow fire, and in the process it seems she will ruin a tower as well (perhaps one at Castle Black or even Nightfort). This "dragon" will be a mixture of blood magic, shadow binding and R'hllor fire tricks, and Dany will have to deal with it.

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Fires

life= birth of the dragons

death= not sure but i'm leaning towards the sack of astapor. or maybe meereen will fall/die because of the dragons' fire?

i dont think it relates to rhaego or viserys since i believe the prophecies are told in chronological order (or at least it seems like that to me).

love= didnt happen yet (the vision of rhaegar's death is not truly related to Dany so i dont think it fits here)

Mounts

bed= Drogo

dread=Drogon

love= didnt happen yet. but i believe it could be Jon (it's cliche and i dont like it but since my first read of ACoK, i feel he will be her love once they get to know each other)

Treasons

Blood= MMD. she is the most obvious one but jorah could fit here too since his betrayal in the beginning was more to get back to his family (blood) than for gold, imo.

Gold= Hizdahr??? i'm not sure about this one.

Love= not yet. if i'm right and she will love Jon once she meets him, then it could be him (jon AA and dany nissa nissa??). i'm not sure about this one as well

Is it possible that these two are one in the same? She lit a fire of the man she loved (Drogo) and this fire gave life to the dragons? I dont truly believe that but its an interpretation. If not I can see it happening soon. In terms of who it is; not Daario. That's not a fire for love, she doesnt love Daario - she desires him.

I would swap these two around, she fell in love with Drogo. To me the mount to bed is who she will continue the Targaryen line with (her heir)

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This is the only set I'm ready to speculate on.

M1. Pretty sure this is Stannis with his wannabe-Lightbringer and all out of shadows after all the babymaking. OK, so Dany will have to slay this lie.

M2. I'm convinced it's fAegon, Dany must prove he's fake.

M3. This is where it gets interesting. I know there are theories about this being Jon and all that. But when I look at this, I can't help but to think of Melisandre.

She's been going on and on about king's blood and waking dragons out of stone. So my theory is that at some point Mel will go ahead with sacrificing someone with royal juice in their veins (Shireen might be available, sorry... :/ ) to wake up a stone dragon. If you ask me, this won't be a real dragon hatching from an egg or one that's been hibernating inside the Wall or at Winterfell. I think she goes all nuts with her shadow binding skillz and creates a mighty beast that spits out shadow fire, and in the process it seems she will ruin a tower as well (perhaps one at Castle Black or even Nightfort). This "dragon" will be a mixture of blood magic, shadow binding and R'hllor fire tricks, and Dany will have to deal with it.

About M3 I've been wondering, if the waking stone dragon could be an Greyscale outbreak. been wondering what towers there were. tower of... what's the place called, Shireen is locked in?

Apart from that, I really think that the prophecies are good to interprete, once they have happened, so I think if you can't interprete a prophecy ultimately, that means it hasn't happened yet

Had to quote that, also. really love it:

I interpret it differently. I think the F's are describing three deaths, the M's are describing three lies, and the T's are describing three times that she will become a bride. If anything I'd say the three fires are the three deaths, the three M's are the three brides, and the three treasons are the three lies... but IMO I think that's too flimsy of a link, so I'd say the the P's don't necessarily match up to the F, M, and T groupings you've theorized. In the same way they don't match up to the 7 visions later. Three sets of visions that may or may not tell similar events, but aren't necessarily connected.

props to aceluby ;)

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That sounds plausible. In that case, the treason is done by Dany. She betrayed her husband Drogo by letting him not die as he should, practicing blood magic which is considered forbidden by the Dothraki and sacrificing Drogo's child in his stead.

I don't think that was a betrayal, she wanted to help him and was betrayed by MMD. I really don't see Silver's connection.

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The fire to love has happened already.



"The flames were so beautiful, the loveliest things she had ever seen, each one a sorcerer robed in yellow and orange and scarlet, swirling long smoky cloaks."



This was the same fire to bring life to the dragons and the same fire for death of MMD
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My guess is Victarion is the corpse on the ship smiling sadly.

The ship symbolizing his obvious ironborn origins and connection to ships.

The corpse symbolizing his recent connection and embrace of the red god, maybe implying he's now a puppet of Rhyllor or maybe his death is in the near future.

And smiling sadly because he's shown to be a very troubled soul.

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I think another interpretation could be one thing doing three


Like one dragon three heads.



Like One fire that is lit for life, death and love that's the funeral fire.


One mount to bed, dread and love could be Drogo or Drogon.


One person doing all the treasons Jorah, gold, blood and love for Dany.


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Okay I'm going to take a crack at this.



I'll start with P2, the Mounts



P2. three mounts must you ride... one to bed and one to dread and one to love...



T1. Her silver was trotting through the grass, to a darkling stream beneath a sea of stars. - This is obvious. Silver symbolises her wedding night and the love that she eventually developed for Drogo. Silver is literally the mount that she rode to bed.



T2. A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. - I'm assuming this is Victarion/Euron. Here, the vision is her destination rather than a means of getting somewhere. Or sex. Of course it might mean the ship and Victarion being kind of helpless, dumbass that he is. I don't know why she would need it if Drogon eventually becomes compliant. But also SEX.



T3. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness. - Once again Jon might be a destination that she might need to get to on her mount. I don't want to think sex here because ew.


... mother of dragons, bride of fire...



Now P1, the fires. I'm interpreting in the order F2, F1, F3



P1. three fires must you light... one for life and one for death and one to love...



F2. A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him. The vision of a grown up Rhaego symbolises the fire that she lit for life, i.e. to give birth to her dragons. Eventhough it is Drogo burning in the pyre, the dragons are the closest things to the world conquering son she might have had.



F1. Viserys screamed as the molten gold ran down his cheeks and filled his mouth. She was not the one that lit the fire that caused Viserys' death but maybe this is showing a symbolic fire. A fire that burned bright enough that she allowed her brother to be murdered and not flinch at all.



F3. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman’s name. Here words are that she lit a fire to love than for love. This reminded me of a toast, an homage. So this maybe a fire that is her homage to Rhaegar's love for Lyanna. Maybe an homage to Jon.


... mother of dragons, daughter of death..



The treasons is where this falls apart. I'm mapping P3 to the M series



P3. three treasons will you know... once for blood and once for gold and once for love...



M1. Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. Stannis committing treason against her blood for a second time?


M2. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. Maybe the reason for Illyrio and/or Varys to perpetuate Aegon's campaign is to get rich(er)? Seems very unlikely


M3. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire. I can't even begin to explain.


... mother of dragons, slayer of lies...



So, does anyone think any of this makes a little bit of sense?



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Is it possible that these two are one in the same? She lit a fire of the man she loved (Drogo) and this fire gave life to the dragons? I dont truly believe that but its an interpretation. If not I can see it happening soon. In terms of who it is; not Daario. That's not a fire for love, she doesnt love Daario - she desires him.

I would swap these two around, she fell in love with Drogo. To me the mount to bed is who she will continue the Targaryen line with (her heir)

of course it could be one of the same but i dont think so.

as i said before, the prophecies have a chronological feel to me so, imo, the prophecies concerning love didnt happen yet or if they did, it happen really recently. if the latter was the case then it would have to be daario (which i agree with you that is not love, only lust)

she learned to love drogo but at first she was pretty scared of him. i really dont see it as true love, but that's just my opinion. so, to me, i think drogo fits best the "bed" than the "love".

and i dont think she will ever have a child but i could be wrong.

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F3. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman’s name.



This is a vision but Dany also hears the sounds in these visions. She does not recognize the woman's name because if she did, she would tell it. And she did hear a woman's name because she said it was a woman's name. She gives the names of those she know like Viserys and her silver horse.



Then who is this woman? We certainly know that Dany knows the name of Lyanna.



“But that was the tourney when he [Rhaegar] crowned Lyanna Stark as queen of love and beauty!” said Dany. “Princess Elia was there, his wife, and yet my brother gave the crown to the Stark girl, and later stole her away from her betrothed. How could he do that? Did the Dornish woman treat him so ill?”


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F3. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman’s name.

This is a vision but Dany also hears the sounds in these visions. She does not recognize the woman's name because if she did, she would tell it. And she did hear a woman's name because she said it was a woman's name. She gives the names of those she know like Viserys and her silver horse.

Then who is this woman? We certainly know that Dany knows the name of Lyanna.

“But that was the tourney when he [Rhaegar] crowned Lyanna Stark as queen of love and beauty!” said Dany. “Princess Elia was there, his wife, and yet my brother gave the crown to the Stark girl, and later stole her away from her betrothed. How could he do that? Did the Dornish woman treat him so ill?”

Nice catch.

I have a personal crackpot about this and Rhaegar, I noticed something recently.

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