Jump to content

The Structured Implied in the House of the Undying Prophecies


Mithras

Recommended Posts

I find that very few of the undying prophecies can be identified well, and the rest are pretty blur speculations non of which fits really well.



Raeghar, Raegho and Viserys are a sure match.


Stannis is easily identified as the blue eyed king with the sword and no shadow.


Jon Snow as the blue flower is pretty certain as well, although it takes more effort to identify that.



The rest are pretty blur.


I know many feel that Aegon being the mummers dragon is a sure thing, I am much less convinced. Both of him being fake , and that he really is the mummers dragon.


Stone beast - No idea. I think it has not happened yet. If it is JonCon and shadow fire means blackfyre, I think the previous one could not be Aegon as well. In addition I am not fully convinced on the balckfyre theory. It could be, but I think it is far from certain.


Corpse smiling sadly - JonCon is weak , especially for those who believe he is the stone beast. Victarion is a possibility but not a good one. It is possible this has not happen yet.




Regarding the 3 fires, treasons and mounts, I suspect we will never get a clear interpretation. Just guesses.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

I see this as:



... P1. three fires must you light... one for life and one for death and one to love...


... P2. three mounts must you ride... one to bed and one to dread and one to love...


... P3. three treasons will you know... once for blood and once for gold and once for love...



P1life: the fire she lights to birth the dragons


P1death: TBD (although I feel like this may have happened already - I haven't read the books in a while and my memory is kind of hazy)


P1love: TBD



P2bed: Drogo, as the Dothraki are strongly associated with horses (and did it say Drogo mounted her or the other way around on their wedding night in AGoT?)


P2dread: Drogon at the end of the ADwD, as the terrible and dreadful beast


P2love: TBD (Jon soon? lol)



P3blood: MMD


P3gold: Jorah likely


P3love: TBD

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Read the PT part of the prophecy vertically and you get "life, bed, blood" among other things.



Bride of fire sort of goes with the theme of the story, now don't it? Who is the groom of ice, mmm? Not saying Dany and Jon will marry but maybe Rhaegar had it wrong? One person to represent fire, one to represent ice, not a combination of the two?


Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 7 months later...

Mel saw it in the flames that Stannis was going to be defeated by Renly. She convinced Stannis to slay Renly to prevent this vision coming true but that murder led to the Lannister/Tyrell alliance which defeated Stannis at Blackwater and Garlan was wearing Renly’s armor. So, the precautions to avoid the vision coming true actually led to the very realization of that vision. This is the canon story.





Prophecy 2: three mounts must you ride... one to bed (Mount 1) ...




Mount 1: (to bed) Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow.



... mother of dragons, slayer of lies






"Melisandre swears that she has seen me in her flames, facing the dark with Lightbringer raised on high."



This is interesting. This one was from the Storm, where Stannis was suffering PTSD from Blackwater and Mel was trying to convince him to burn Edric for a dragon.



This vision of Mel is almost an exact replica of Dany’s HotU vision. Given that Stannis the would-be-AAR is the lie Dany is supposed to slay, I think Mel saw the ultimate defeat of Stannis in the war against Dany. That is why Mel desperately wants Stannis to have his own dragon.



I think, Mel will succeed in tricking Stannis into having a dragon by a sacrifice. It will most probably be a shadow dragon. There is too much foreshadowing for that.



As a rule of thumb, the things which are done prevent a vision/prophecy coming true end up fullfilling that prophecy. That means the shadow dragon will cause the demise of Stannis.



By the way, visions are not literal. Mel saw Bran as a boy with a wolf’s head, BR as a corpse with a wooden face. So, one can ask what Mel really saw as the enemy of Stannis and how she interpreted it as the dark.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

If I see the mount part of the prophecy, it could be her three men she slept with. Drogo was dreaded by her at first. She bedded her "hubby" in Mereen to simply bed him. She bedded Daario out of sheer will to do so, she loves him despite what most of us readers think of him. If her "mounting of men" story is this, then she will take no other men to bed the rest of her life. I doubt it but it could be true. Daario survives to be at her side and in her bed all the way to Westeros where hopefully, they both die.


Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Mel saw it in the flames that Stannis was going to be defeated by Renly. She convinced Stannis to slay Renly to prevent this vision coming true but that murder led to the Lannister/Tyrell alliance which defeated Stannis at Blackwater and Garlan was wearing Renly’s armor. So, the precautions to avoid the vision coming true actually led to the very realization of that vision. This is the canon story.

"Melisandre swears that she has seen me in her flames, facing the dark with Lightbringer raised on high."

This is interesting. This one was from the Storm, where Stannis was suffering PTSD from Blackwater and Mel was trying to convince him to burn Edric for a dragon.

This vision of Mel is almost an exact replica of Dany’s HotU vision. Given that Stannis the would-be-AAR is the lie Dany is supposed to slay, I think Mel saw the ultimate defeat of Stannis in the war against Dany. That is why Mel desperately wants Stannis to have his own dragon.

I think, Mel will succeed in tricking Stannis into having a dragon by a sacrifice. It will most probably be a shadow dragon. There is too much foreshadowing for that.

As a rule of thumb, the things which are done prevent a vision/prophecy coming true end up fullfilling that prophecy. That means the shadow dragon will cause the demise of Stannis.

By the way, visions are not literal. Mel saw Bran as a boy with a wolf’s head, BR as a corpse with a wooden face. So, one can ask what Mel really saw as the enemy of Stannis and how she interpreted it as the dark.

This is my very first post to this forum...

What if the vision of the blue-eyed king was of Gendry? I won't get into how we get to him being a king, however I do believe that given how GRRM allowed the HBO show to bring Mel and Gendry together and interact the way they did is forshadowing something to come. If Mels vision and the HotU vision are of the same person, then perhaps Mel saw someone who was clearly Baratheon and assumed it was Stannis. I personally believe Gendry has a major role to play in later events. I guess we shall see.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

F3. Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman’s name.

This is a vision but Dany also hears the sounds in these visions. She does not recognize the woman's name because if she did, she would tell it. And she did hear a woman's name because she said it was a woman's name. She gives the names of those she know like Viserys and her silver horse.

Then who is this woman? We certainly know that Dany knows the name of Lyanna.

“But that was the tourney when he [Rhaegar] crowned Lyanna Stark as queen of love and beauty!” said Dany. “Princess Elia was there, his wife, and yet my brother gave the crown to the Stark girl, and later stole her away from her betrothed. How could he do that? Did the Dornish woman treat him so ill?”

I think the woman's name is Visenya, the daughter Rhaegar was hoping to be born from Lyanna. That's how Dany got to the conclusion, in her last ACOK chapter, that Rhaegar had already gotten a Rhaenys and an Aegon and he was lacking a Visenya. At least, this was the first insight i had when i first read this book and i kept wondering where Dany has gotten this idea of a missing Visenya from.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 weeks later...

I think it's also possible the treasons aren't against her, but three that change their loyalty to her. Maybe for example, Barristan for her trueborn Blood, Tyrion for the Gold that is his by rights, and maybe Jorah or Daario for Love. (Just theoreticals, it's a stretch to make these fit the way the OP lays it out) Also I think that anything that happened before the undying may not be applicable (they use future tense), so MMD and BoD can't count.

That sounds plausible. In that case, the treason is done by Dany. She betrayed her husband Drogo by letting him not die as he should, practicing blood magic which is considered forbidden by the Dothraki and sacrificing Drogo's child in his stead.

Hey everyone. Can we just get back to this already? Seems the most legit to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is my very first post to this forum...

What if the vision of the blue-eyed king was of Gendry? I won't get into how we get to him being a king, however I do believe that given how GRRM allowed the HBO show to bring Mel and Gendry together and interact the way they did is forshadowing something to come. If Mels vision and the HotU vision are of the same person, then perhaps Mel saw someone who was clearly Baratheon and assumed it was Stannis. I personally believe Gendry has a major role to play in later events. I guess we shall see.

OoOoohh

I like that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Fire 2: (for death) A tall lord with copper skin and silver-gold hair stood beneath the banner of a fiery stallion, a burning city behind him.

“They say the child was…”

She waited, but Ser Jorah could not say it. His face grew dark with shame. He looked half a corpse himself.

Monstrous,” Mirri Maz Duur finished for him. The knight was a powerful man, yet Dany understood in that moment that the maegi was stronger, and crueler, and infinitely more dangerous. “Twisted. I drew him forth myself. He was scaled like a lizard, blind, with the stub of a tail and small leather wings like the wings of a bat. When I touched him, the flesh sloughed off the bone, and inside he was full of graveworms and the stink of corruption. He had been dead for years.”

AGoT made us believe that Rhaego was a normal baby and it was MMD’s magic that twisted and killed him. However, later we learned that such “monstrosities” are nothing new to the Targaryens.

And so it was that the princess was at her good-sister’s side on the third day of that accursed year 120 AC, the Year of the Red Spring. A day and a night of labor left Laena Velaryon pale and weak, but finally she gave birth to the son Prince Daemon had so long desired—but the babe was twisted and malformed, and died within the hour. Nor did his mother long survive him. Her grueling labor had drained all of Lady Laena’s strength, and grief weakened her still further, making her helpless before the onset of childbed fever.

On Dragonstone, no cheers were heard. Instead, screams echoed through the halls and stairwells of Sea Dragon Tower, down from the queen’s apartments where Rhaenyra Targaryen strained and shuddered in her third day of labor. The child had not been due for another turn of the moon, but the tidings from King’s Landing had driven the princess into a black fury, and her rage seemed to bring on the birth, as if the babe inside her were angry too, and fighting to get out. The princess shrieked curses all through her labor, calling down the wroth of the gods upon her half brothers and their mother the queen, and detailing the torments she would inflict upon them before she would let them die. She cursed the child inside her too. “Get out,” she screamed, clawing at her swollen belly as her maester and her midwife tried to restrain her. “Monster, monster, get out, get out, GET OUT!”

When the babe at last came forth, she proved indeed a monster: a stillborn girl, twisted and malformed, with a hole in her chest where her heart should have been and a stubby, scaled tail. The dead girl had been named Visenya, Princess Rhaenyra announced the next day, when milk of the poppy had blunted the edge of her pain. “She was my only daughter, and they killed her. They stole my crown and murdered my daughter, and they shall answer for it.”

Rhaenyra and Laena gave birth to such babies. Interestingly, these babies were both from Daemon’s seed. Another male Targaryen with corrupt seed was Maegor.

Yet no matter how many women he wedded— or bedded— he found himself childless. He made brides of women whom he had widowed— women of proved fertility— but the only children born of his seed proved monstrosities: misshapen, eyeless, limbless, or having the parts of man and woman both. His descent into true madness, some say, began with the first of these abominations.

Alys became queen after Maegor brought her back from Pentos. She was the first woman to become pregnant by the king in the year 48 AC, but she lost the babe soon after. What was expelled from her womb was a monstrosity, eyeless and twisted,

After seven days of mourning, Elinor was summoned to wed Maegor. She, too, became pregnant, and like Alys before her, she gave birth to a stillborn abomination said to have been born eyeless and with small wings. She survived that monstrous labor, however, and was one of the two wives who survived the king.

In 47 AC she was with child, but three moons before the child was due, her labor began, and from her womb came another stillborn monster. She did not survive the child for long.

The World Book also provided hints that Valyrians infused retile blood to themselves to have better control on their dragons. They experimented on interbreeding slave women and beasts. There are winged-men, lizard-men, Brindled Men and all sort of other hybrid breeds.

In conclusion, Rhaego was most probably a typical Targaryen malformed baby. Yes, he was alive before the tent but he would not live long with that body. Only his death in the womb and the corruption of his body can be attributed to blood magic and the shadows in the tent.

This means that the vision about Rhaego razing a city is not a glimpse of a possible future. Its meaning must be metaphorical, which implies that all the other visions must be metaphorical too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...