Gender Bias And You

[Hutch]

2 things:

1. yes, a lot of the OP is a joke, intended to lead you to an important and uncomfortable question, in a comfortable and cushy manner: WHY are people surprised at women reading and enjoying the books? Additionally, is there such a thing as a feminine perspective? Women do not belong to a hive mind, and in spite of gendered behavior, are capable of distinct, individual opinions on both male and female book characters.

and

2. I sincerely hope you are not suggesting that people who argue that Sansa is NOT to blame for Lady's death do so due to some kind of emotional reason (If I'm reading you correctly) and not based on "causation".

I hope you realize your argument suggests women do not look at causation (logic presumably). It really is a punch to the gut disguised as an 'observation'. Furthermore, does the 'emotional' analysis and motivation of a character presuppose you are not using logic, or causation as you call it?

I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here, because what you wrote, could very easily be interpreted as an insult

actually no. It's perfectly normal and expected even, for women to identify with male charcters, it's vice versa that's the problem. If a guy identifies with Sansa (E-Ro where are you? ) do we mock him, or does he just maybe possibly have a point ?

1. I've been attempting to agree that there is no "hive mind" for females. More so I've been attempting to dissuade the entire idea of gender bias, granted only through examples of people I personally know. So I am in agreement with you on that point.

2. I was not attempting to illustrate that at all. It was an example, that even when I typed it, knew would ruffle some feathers. My apologies if I came off differently then I intended, I was not suggesting anything of the sort. What I was attempting to illustrate was that in my personal experiences, the women I know are far better at realizing what a character is going through and empathizing with characters. It was meant to be a compliment, as I struggle with this. My mistake I guess was using Sansa as an example. I should know better by now. My apologies.

Lastly as to associating with male or female characters, I didn't intend to say that it doesn't happen, just that in my experience is less common, and I'd say understandably so.

I was weary to enter this conversion, and this is why. It seems like whenever gender is brought into the equation around here, there will never be a right answer, or for that matter one that half the people here won't find offensive in some way or other.

[The Mother of The Others]

The books were meant to be bigger than our genitals.

The descriptions are really involved so that we get fully involved as readers, but this has the side effect of pushing all our personal buttons and awakening our issues and ethics and politics and our sense of outrage. So strangely, the book intended as an escapist fantasy brings us back into real world issues. Probably the only difference a lot of the time is that even though we all go "eww" when we read something outrageous, not all of us maintain that rage equally about the same things. Then, on here, it looks or sounds as if someone isn't offended at all by something they "should" be, so we rail at them like "Why doesn't that affect you?", like they're an unfeeling space alien, when really what happened was they were indeed uncomfortable when they first read that part of the book but they got over it when the next unsettling thing came along whereas you remembered that first thing because it got to you more. And the things we remember most probably break down along gender lines. But it doesn't mean the other person never flinched like you did. They just accepted it as a horrible thing and chose not to live on in that particular flinch on an ongoing basis. For example, I've seen people on here who have forgiven Theon and expect me to as well, as if it's my problem for still living in the gripe I have against him. As if it's high time I got onboard with his rehabilitation arc. Well.... I'm not letting that gripe go just yet. It seems unforgivable to me, if not to them. So when I hear people who are unable to cheer Tyrion now, I guess that's understandable, though I still do. We should remember that our own reactions won't necessarily be felt universally. Just like how after a murder trial, some members of the family will forgive or make peace or attempt to move on or whatever, while others just don't. And there's no real right or wrong reaction.

[Pingslayer]

Surprising. Actually I thought the book had more male fans.

I don't think the series is gender-biased. Fascinating, compelling storyline captivates everyone, regardless of their sex, right?

I guess GRRM strived to place literary "treats" to both. The treats I mean are, to generalize, illustrations of battles, armies strategies, and hot girls for male fandom and descriptions of beautiful objects, colour and hot men for female fandom. He even scattered a bit of "treat" for foodies.....lemoncakes and Frey pies....lol

[Darth Visenya]

I also like to use Star Wars as an example, if I like Obi Wan, it means I am partial to wise characters in leadership positions, and if a guy like Leia...well it's typically assumed that there's sentiments going on that Yolky has for Mel :P

Using Star Wars as an example if I like Palpatine does that mean I like shrewd political operators? :P.

ASoIaF wise the characters I identify with most and enjoy are:, Cersei,Visenya,Arya and Aerys so quite a strong bias to my own gender.

Overall conclusion, I could probably benefit from a psych evaluation :rofl:.

[Stubby]

[MOD]

This topic gets aired regularly in Gen Chat.

All of the arguments being raised here have been raised, discussed, debunked, analysed and continued in recent weeks over there.

[/MOD]