Emeralds

[FrozenFire3]

Blue as in the blue rose, metaphor for Jon and possible emblem of a new/old dynasty.

Rhaegar setting the winter rose crown in Lyanna's lap could allude not only to Jon's conception (as you brilliantly hypothesized in previous threads) but also to a metaphorical dynasty (and relative coat of arms) 'handover'.

You are a genius, hat off. So much layers to your analysis... food for thoughts :)

[J. Stargaryen]

Blue as in the blue rose, metaphor for Jon and possible emblem of a new/old dynasty.

Rhaegar setting the winter rose crown in Lyanna's lap could allude not only to Jon's conception (as you brilliantly hypothesized in previous threads) but also to a metaphorical dynasty (and relative coat of arms) 'handover'.

You are a genius, hat off. So much layers to your analysis... food for thoughts :)

Thanks. :)

I had a feeling you would really get the Trident analysis since it incorporated your excellent Tristifer work. I got pretty excited when I realized that Tristifer's sepulcher – a big R+L=J metaphor – was located on the Blue Fork. I consider that a big point in favor of the whole idea.

My addition to the Tristifer tapestry had to do with the wild roses found around the sepulcher, which ties into something you mentioned; specifically, a "coat of arms." One form of wild rose is known as rosa canina; dog rose. This just happens to be the rose upon which medieval English heraldry is styled. Dog rose images. Rose heraldry images.

The point being that there are hints on the Blue Fork, at the Tristifer location, of a new sigil for a new dynasty; a blue rose for Jon of House Stark.

As you alluded to, sapphires could also be used to represent blue roses. During the Tourney of the Hand (AGoT, Eddard VII) Ser Loras decorates his armor with sapphires so that they look like flowers; sapphire flowers. Forget-me-nots to be exact. Though not roses, the name is interesting considering it is a Ned POV. After all, if there is anything he can not forget it is:

Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned.

And, as Yolkboy pointed out in the sapphires=secrets thread, the sapphires hint at the secret of R+L=J. So, a connection between Jon and the gems already exists before you factor in blue roses.

A couple of other notes about Ser Loras during the Tourney of the Hand: he defeated three members of the KG, which should set off alarm bells for any R+L=Jer and; GRRM uses him to convey some pretty clear Wars of the Roses symbolism:

[...] his snow-white stallion was draped in a blanket of red and white roses. After each victory, Ser Loras would remove his helm and ride slowly round the fence, and finally pluck a single white rose from the blanket and toss it to some fair maiden in the crowd.

His last match of the day was against the younger Royce. Ser Robar’s ancestral runes proved small protection as Ser Loras split his shield and drove him from his saddle to crash with an awful clangor in the dirt. Robar lay moaning as the victor made his circuit of the field. Finally they called for a litter and carried him off to his tent, dazed and unmoving. Sansa never saw it. Her eyes were only for Ser Loras. When the white horse stopped in front of her, she thought her heart would burst.

To the other maidens he had given white roses, but the one he plucked for her was red.

- AGoT, Sansa II (Tourney of the Hand)

As we all know, the Lancaster claimant ended up winning the WotR.

ETA: forgot this other blue rose-sapphire connection. The eyes of Wights and White Walkers serve as a common denominator – a sort of simile by proxy – for blue roses and sapphires.

A storm of rose petals blew across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death.

- AGoT, Eddard X (ToJ)

Yet his [Othor's] eyes were still open. They stared up at the sky, blue as sapphires.

- AGoT, Jon VII

[coil]

I'm bumping this thread because it's an awesome read and deserves more views (and eventually some significant discussions)!

[Lyse Stark]

And my thoughts on Jon Snow; since he is represents by sapphires, I think that mean Jon doesn't even know his own true identity. As a result, he armours himself in his own bastard identity. But come TWoW, this metaphorical armour is gonna be shattered by the truth of R+L=J. Jon may attempt to rebuild this identity, but others may not let him. So he have to forge a new identity based on the new revelations.

[random girl from westeros]

I like this thread but you said that red represents targs, green baratheons or usurpers and blue starks but if R+L=J is correct shouldn`t Jon be represent by color red too?

[Queen Whore]

I love the color/jewel code idea. Between that and food code, no wonder it takes the man five years to write a book!

[J. Stargaryen]

I like this thread but you said that red represents targs, green baratheons or usurpers and blue starks but if R+L=J is correct shouldn`t Jon be represent by color red too?

Yes and no. :) While he is almost certainly the trueborn son of Rhaegar Targaryen, I believe the (future) ruling Stark dynasty is connected to blue/sapphires. I think it will be Jon that founds it, possibly after a battle on the Blue Fork.

I'm not sure if you've read the Sapphires = Secrets thread, but that entire idea fits in really well with R+L=J, as there isn't a bigger, more important secret in ASoIaF.

I'm not sure exactly how or why it will turn out that Jon rules as a Stark, but I think most of the evidence and foreshadowing that I'm aware of points to this as the likely outcome. It might be that he can't prove his legitimacy via R+L=J, or he might rather just identify himself as a Stark, or it might be that it's time for a change.

At any rate, story-wise I think it makes a lot of sense for the Starks to end up ruling the Seven Kingdoms, or whatever it has become by that point.

---

Some fun speculation: after doing a little research on WotR era characters, I made a neat find that I posted here. The gist of it is that the centerpiece of the Crown Jewels of Great Britain is called "The Black Prince's Ruby."

So, maybe just maybe, Jon's crown will have a ruby in the center flanked by a pair of sapphires. Just a guess. It would be a way for him to acknowledge his identity and heritage while leading Westeros into a new era.

[J. Stargaryen]

I just finished rereading The Hedge Knight, and there was a green and black reference early in the story:

Egg soon fell asleep beside the dying fire. Dunk lay on his back nearby, his big hands behind his head, gazing up at the night sky. He could hear distant music from the tourney grounds, half a mile away. The stars were everywhere, thousands and thousands of them. One fell as he was watching, a bright green streak that flashed across the black and then was gone.

Those who have read THK will understand how this fits with the green and black = intra-dynastic conflict hypothesis. The duration of the green streak's visibility matches quite well with the length of the conflict, too. Instead of a drawn out affair, it was over in a day.

[Alia of the knife]

Yes and no. :) While he is almost certainly the trueborn son of Rhaegar Targaryen, I believe the (future) ruling Stark dynasty is connected to blue/sapphires. I think it will be Jon that founds it, possibly after a battle on the Blue Fork.

I'm not sure if you've read the Sapphires = Secrets thread, but that entire idea fits in really well with R+L=J, as there isn't a bigger, more important secret in ASoIaF.

I'm not sure exactly how or why it will turn out that Jon rules as a Stark, but I think most of the evidence and foreshadowing that I'm aware of points to this as the likely outcome. It might be that he can't prove his legitimacy via R+L=J, or he might rather just identify himself as a Stark, or it might be that it's time for a change.

At any rate, story-wise I think it makes a lot of sense for the Starks to end up ruling the Seven Kingdoms, or whatever it has become by that point.

---

Some fun speculation: after doing a little research on WotR era characters, I made a neat find that I posted here. The gist of it is that the centerpiece of the Crown Jewels of Great Britain is called "The Black Prince's Ruby."

So, maybe just maybe, Jon's crown will have a ruby in the center flanked by a pair of sapphires. Just a guess. It would be a way for him to acknowledge his identity and heritage while leading Westeros into a new era.

I love the history of the Black Prince, so great connection and prediction.

(Also, are you sure you wouldn't prefer fat summer spiders over this)?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqptbtwXUCs

:P

[J. Stargaryen]

The Black Prince was an interesting find for me. I'm new to that part of history. That ice tsunami was crazy. Someone should show that to GRRM. I hadn't even heard about that.

[Ser Creighton]

I love the color/jewel code idea. Between that and food code, no wonder it takes the man five years to write a book!

Don't say code. Code is bad, bad word, evil word.

J. I don't remember where and maybe I missed it but was Wildfire the only Green and Black fire rep? I thought yesterday I ran across something that had green and black fire and I can't remember where or what.

[Ser Creighton]

Never mind I remember it's in a vision, a under water volcano.

[J. Stargaryen]

Don't say code. Code is bad, bad word, evil word.

J. I don't remember where and maybe I missed it but was Wildfire the only Green and Black fire rep? I thought yesterday I ran across something that had green and black fire and I can't remember where or what.

There's a lot of black and green in the series. It became really obvious when GRRM named the new short story TPatQ, or, the Blacks and the Greens.

Never mind I remember it's in a vision, a under water volcano.

Patchface, right? There's black, green, and blue. :) Almost like a new, three-way Dance of the Dragons between Dany, (f)Aegon, and Jon.

[Ser Creighton]

There's a lot of black and green in the series. It became really obvious when GRRM named the new short story TPatQ, or, the Blacks and the Greens.

Patchface, right? There's black, green, and blue. :) Almost like a new, three-way Dance of the Dragons between Dany, (f)Aegon, and Jon.

Yep Jinglbells is at it again. I had wondered about the color coding of the councils. I new Yolkboy had been working on stones I didn't know you both had. Sorry Color pallet. Why don't you combine them all into one thread? Just don't call it the Color Code, it will be a nightmare.

[J. Stargaryen]

Yep Jinglbells is at it again. I had wondered about the color coding of the councils. I new Yolkboy had been working on stones I didn't know you both had. Sorry Color pallet. Why don't you combine them all into one thread? Just don't call it the Color Code, it will be a nightmare.

We did the sapphire thread together. I found this one on my own, later on.

[Alia of the knife]

The Black Prince was an interesting find for me. I'm new to that part of history. That ice tsunami was crazy. Someone should show that to GRRM. I hadn't even heard

about that.

I know!

My friends told me about and sent me the link.

It was almost mesmerizing to watch that creeping ice.

Edward, The Black Prince, was one of the brothers of John of Gaunt who kicked off alot of the succession mess which was the origin of the claim by Margaret Beaufort.

They aren't sure when he got that name and it wasn't used in his lifetime, but think it was derived from the black armor he supposedly wore, the black shield, or both. He was also both chivalrous, but brutally pragmatic on the battlefield which is why he was such an affective military leader.

He had also been raised with his cousin who would later become his wife. :)

[J. Stargaryen]

I know!

My friends told me about and sent me the link.

It was almost mesmerizing to watch that creeping ice.

Edward, The Black Prince, was one of the brothers of John of Gaunt who kicked off alot of the succession mess which was the origin of the claim by Margaret Beaufort.

They aren't sure when he got that name and it wasn't used in his lifetime, but think it was derived from the black armor he supposedly wore, the black shield, or both. He was also both chivalrous, but brutally pragmatic on the battlefield which is why he was such an affective military leader.

He had also been raised with his cousin who would later become his wife. :)

One think I read was that people had taken to calling him Edward IV, but needed to "rename" him when Edward of York took the throne from Henry VI and became Edward IV. I think I'm recalling all of that correctly. :)

[Alia of the knife]

One think I read was that people had taken to calling him Edward IV, but needed to "rename" him when Edward of York took the throne from Henry VI and became Edward IV. I think I'm recalling all of that correctly. :)

That would be right, and in large part because he never became king. He died a month before his father, so his young son Richard became king.

But Edward was also called "dragon knight."

[J. Stargaryen]

That would be right, and in large part because he never became king. He died a month before his father, so his young son Richard became king.

But Edward was also called "dragon knight."

Ooh, I did not know that.

[Fire Eater]

You did an impressive job, J. Stargaryen.

I think the eggs in "sapphires big as eggs" could be a hint connected to Egg, the name under which Aegon V hid his Targaryen identity. The "sapphires big as eggs" could refer to Jon, who also uses a name to hide his Targaryen identity.

I believe Dany will meet Stannis on the Blue Fork, and win and this results her pursuing the Northmen to WF which is where she meets Jon who reveals his heritage.

There's a lot of black and green in the series. It became really obvious when GRRM named the new short story TPatQ, or, the Blacks and the Greens.

Patchface, right? There's black, green, and blue. :) Almost like a new, three-way Dance of the Dragons between Dany, (f)Aegon, and Jon.

I love that interpretation, the flames representing three monarchs with claims to House Targaryen.