A Theory: The possibly game-changing secret beneath the Winterfell Crypts

[Renhet]

I like this theory, something that is mentioned alot in the series should have some value.

There's alot of harpplayers, but not that many with a Winterfell connection, and with a royal title. The fact that we know that Mance is a player is interesting, where *do* you find a good harp fit for a king north of the wall? Maybe on a Winterfell trip?

I don't subscribe to the M=R however, but two royal harpplayers is interesting enough.

[~~~~~~~~~~~~~]

Note: This was originally a post I made to the asoiaf subreddit, located here http://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/1py3ee/spoilers_all_i_know_the_gamechanging_secret_in/. I received a good deal of positive feedback including a few private messages suggesting I post it here. Hence I'm following their advise and posting the theory here.

Note: I've had a few people mildy upset after reading this on Reddit, because they felt it was so sure it was more of a future spoiler than a theory. You've been warned.

--- original post ---

Last Revised Nov 9th, 2013

NOTE: This revision incorporates numerous clarifications based on comment feedback. The exact original text of this post can be found at http://goo.gl/JI4ovL

The Theory

Rhaegar's unique silver-stringed harp is in Lyanna's tomb.

"Will you make a song for him?" the woman asked.

"He has a song," the man replied. "He is the prince that was promised, and his is the song of ice and fire."

— ACOK, Daenerys IV

The quote is about Aegon and it's between Elia and Rhaegar. Recall what Marwyn says, "Prophecy is like a treacherous woman". Rhaegar may have been wrong about Aegon; or more likely he believes that one, all or any of the three 'heads of the dragon' are/is the prince that was promised.

Thematically it's more sensible if Jon Snow is the prince that was promised and especially when you consider his parentage. Simply combine the Stark and Targaryen words. This isn't exactly a novel concept, many ASOIAF fans have thought the same.

The Importance of Legitimacy

I was deeply conflicted when I first read ADWD. I've been a longtime believer in the R+L=J theory, so I have a personal bias. I struggled with this bias over Aegon/Young Griff, but intellectually I knew I couldn't answer the question of who is actually legitimate.

It then occurred to me that the more practical question is how to prove said legitimacy. This poses a challenge to both Aegon and Jon. Looking at them closely:

Aegon

It's not enough to just show up looking like a Targaryen or declaring yourself one; you need legitimacy, you need proof. The lords of Westeros already doubt his legitimacy so he must prove it or subjugate them all. At some point winning bannermen via a legitimate claim will be more valuable than conflict. It doesn't help that he's backed by the Golden Company either. It is telling that he and his advisors all know this, which is why he is initially bent on securing Daenerys's hand in marriage; so he has her blood and her dragons to establish him.

---

Jon

He's supposedly dead. Keep in mind, if the notion of establishing some connection between Jon and Rhaegar is important to the story irrespective of his living status, then this theory is still useful. No one aside from Howland Reed has knowledge of Jon's heritage, so he has no self-driven need to find something like this harp. But for those of us who would like to see him revealed as a bastard- or trueborn Targaryen, Azor Ahai or the prince that was promised, he must also prove it to himself and/or others.

So obviously we then ask "What would significantly bolster a claim of Targaryen ancestry?" My thoughts immediately ran to the Valyrian swords Dark Sister and Blackfyre. Unfortunately both are associated with bastard lines of Targaryens, each attainted with histories that would actually detract from a pretenders' legitimacy, even if I think Bloodraven is a badass. Both have also gone unseen for a number of years and there could be serious logistical questions regarding whether they've stayed in families of true or bastard Targaryen blood.

But this thought process is revealing; we readers inherently know that if any kind of proof exists; it will be something both

1. Well-known to the high lords and ladies of the realm

2. Universally recognized as a symbol of the true Targaryen lineage

We can also exploit some knowledge of factors that exist outside of the books themselves. In the fifth book of a seven book series, it would be sophomoric to introduce a new piece of evidence to the story merely for the sake of answering the riddle of legitimacy. It would be seen by readers as a cop-out. GRRM has already stated that he wants to avoid writing such an ending to the series because he was unhappy with the ending of Lost. Additionally, knowing GRRM, the evidence is likely something lurking beneath our very noses. The kind of thing we'll kick ourselves over when you look back.

So while I was brainstorming every possible Targaryen artifact, tome and treasure I had a sudden tangential thought, Rhaegar never wanted to be a fighter, he only did it to meet Lyanna. He would have much rather continued playing his harp. That idea may not be true and it's not important to this theory; only the fact that the harp jumped into my mind. That's when the epiphany hit me like an anvil. It's that damn harp.

A Reluctant Agreement to a Tricky Promise

I can't deductively prove that harp is in Lyanna's tomb. What I did was speculate the circumstances that led to it's being there with a high degree of confidence. I then considered this theory against alternatives using the notions of 'least complicated' and 'most relevant to the narrative' to arrive at the conclusion that this is more likely that any alternatives. It is a puzzle piece that solves more of the puzzle than any other possibility.

The circumstances regarding how the harp ends up in Lyanna's tomb:

• Rhaegar left it at the Tower of Joy

  Rhaegar loved to play his harp. It's something everyone familiar with him says. He elopes with Lyanna for almost a year before returning to King's Landing and then to his doom at the Trident. It's unlikely that Rhaegar would leave his harp behind while 'retreating' to the Tower of Joy.

  After the outbreak of Robert's Rebellion, it appears he waited until it was clear that Lyanna was with child. Assuming he planned on returning, it is likely he would not carry things to war that he didn't plan on using or would be coming back to. Taking it to war or to King's Landing also puts it at risk of being destroyed should he lose. He also may have left it as a symbol for Lyanna of his affection and promise to return.

  At the very least, there has been no mention of it at any time during or after Robert's Rebellion, implying it vanished somewhere.

  Rhaegar may have calculated the odds of his own demise. Leaving the harp also may have been a deliberate attempt to leave a trace of his lineage; P* This would be based on the fact that his harp is so unique, it's presence in the wrong place would suggest a relationship with Rhaegar.

  Now we all know what happened after that. The Battle of the Trident, the fight at the Tower of Joy. Promise Me, Ned; and a bed of blood. Or do we?

  ---

• "Promise me, Ned" and Eddard's reluctance.

  Imagine someone saying to you "Promise me ,<yourname>". Imagine it being said multiple times. If you're like me, the most immediate thing that comes to mind is someone asking you to vow to do something you'd be otherwise reluctant to do or something they might not otherwise trust that you'll do; i.e., "Promise me you'll clean this mess up", means "I know you don't want to do it, but please do it."

  As existing theories point out, asking to be buried in the Winterfell crypts seems mundane for a dying wish (ironic after you read this theory). The real reason is shown below, but first we need context.

  Ned loves his family and as shown at his death is willing to lie when necessary to protect his kin. I have no doubt that even if Lyanna hadn't asked him, he would have taken Jon in. As many challenges as he would incur from adopting Jon, he would do it. But going back to what I said about the nature of asking promises of others, Lyanna most likely asked him to do something he was apprehensive about. What seems likely is that she is asking him to preserve Jon's heritage, which is something Ned would never want to do. Remember that Ned has endured the loss of his father, his brother, Jon's half-brother and half-sister and is witnessing the death of his sister. Any sane man would be understandably traumatized. He's seen too much death and war. With the apparent end of the Targaryen dynasty at hand, there seems to be no practical reason to ever telling Jon his ancestry. Such would only re-open wounds just starting to heal (at that time), tarnish Lyanna's image to the kingdom, and likely result in Jon's death both as a Targaryen and as a bastard pretender (consider that the nature of his parentage recalls the bastards of the Blackfyre Rebellion).

  There are several possible reasons why Lyanna could want Jon to know his bloodline:

  • She also believes in the prophecy of the prince that was promised.

  • She doesn't want him to live never knowing who his mother and father are.

  • 'It all can't have been for nothing'. She does this for the personal reasons of wanting to feel like her and Rhaegar's deaths weren't just for a vain cause.

  I surmise that either Ned would vocally argue that he would never tell Jon or that Lyanna just implicitly knows he doesn't want to.

  ---

• Lyanna demands that Ned promise to bury her in Winterfell. With some personal effects (harp included).

  It stands to reason that if Lyanna really felt that there must be some final way for Jon to find out, or that some evidence (even dubious) her liaison with Rhaegar was mutual should be preserved, Lyanna would have to demand a promise from Ned. A promise that he could keep, that didn't seem to put too many people at risk. While asking to be buried in the crypts in Winterfell is unusual because no women are buried there, it's a far cry less hazardous than telling Jon who his parents are. It's further plausible that if there was any evidence of their relationship, she could have easily convinced him that hiding it in her tomb would be the best way to conceal it.

  This creates a beautiful synergy between the original, straight-forward interpretations of 'Promise me, Ned' readers first have, and the more intuitive interpretations put forth by the R+L=J theorists.

The Importance of Tomb Selection

Setting aside speculations about the promise Lyanna asked of Ned, there are several intriguing factors surrounding the crypts in the context of her burial there and the possible contents within her tomb. She may have known that these factors might eventually attract attention to her tomb.

• There are no other female tombs.

  The sole exception in a population set as large as 'all the lords of Winterfell back to the time of Bran the Builder', being the only female tomb is an extreme outlier. It draws attention to itself on that basis alone.

  ---

• Only the male tombs have swords across their laps, intended to conceal their spirits within.

  The importance of this is entirely speculative; but it could be implied that the absence of the sword for Lyanna implies that her tomb does not contain her spirit and is possibly less ominous, opening it if necessary is less abominable as opening others.

  ---

• What better place to hide secret Targaryen relics than in a tomb you know Robert will never defile?

  Talk about hiding in plain sight. If there were any Targaryen relics of importance at the Tower of Joy that should be hidden in order to clear Lyanna of any 'wrong-doing' in her dalliance with Rhaegar, hiding them in a place where Robert would never think or dare to look is brilliant.

  ---

The big question that remains is "How does Jon or anyone know to look in the tomb?"

Jon Snow has had frequent ominous dreams of a mysterious destiny that awaits him in the crypts. Bran and Rickon dreamed of Eddard trying to talk to them about Jon in the crypts, and Eddard regretted things he never told to Jon while in the black cells. As for how Jon might learn, consider the possibility that Jon may have a Bran-like dream or vision while he is dead/warged. If you remember that dream of his in the Winterfell crypts —the one he can never finish because he always wakes up? Well, in this dead/warged state he can't wake up and is forced to finish the dream. This dream gives him the knowledge he needs.

The Relevance of the Harp

What is the significance of the harp? Is it just a random object thrown in the story and being mistakenly attributed too much importance in this post? What would other people in Westeros think of it? Does it tie into an character development, larger plots or even into the larger themes of the series?

• The harp has been mentioned in four of the five books currently in print.

  Almost every time the subject of Rhaegar is discussed at any length the harp is mentioned. Particularly when characters are reflecting on their experiences with him. The only exception I can think of is Jaime's remembered talk with him before Rhaegar departed for the Trident.

  ---

• It's unique silver strings are mentioned every time.

  And I do mean every time.

  ---

• It seems to have a unique sound.

  When people recall his playing, they often recall that his songs or the instrument itself create a melancholy tune.

  ---

• His harp would have been widely known.

  Not only are there many times where Rhaegar is explicitly remembered to have played his harp, it is implied that Rhaegar played at many tournaments and other gatherings in general and that he played it a lot on his sojourns to Summerhall. This suggests that it has been exposed to a wide variety of people.

  ---

• Major players already introduced have prominent knowledge of the harp.

  Cersei, Jorah Mormont, Daenerys, Ser Barristan and most importantly Jon Connington are all characters who recall seeing the harp. With Connington's looming death anything that suggests there may be another of Rhaegar's line might sow the seeds of doubt in him.

  ---

• The emergence of the harp may help establish legitimacy for Jon if that becomes important.

  The harp alone can't prove anything. I do think it's more useful than a bridal cloak or a document alone, since it has the distinction of being something a lot of people saw during Rhaegar's life; other items can be disputed. The harp in combination with other objects however, and especially if the opening of the tomb is witnesses by people of note, could substantiate his bloodline and perhaps his inheritance. Coupled with Jon Snow's eventually legitimization as a Stark ( :D) this will give him the entire North.

  ---

• 'Waking a dragon from stone'

  If Jon or someone retrieves this evidence from the tomb, it seems likely that it may amount to the completion of the prophecy regarding waking dragons out of stone. This could imply that Jon is Azor Ahai, or instead the person who retrieves the harp.

A Parting Thought...

Finally, out of all the passages in the books related to harps, only one is in the abstract, and is *rather* eye-catching in light of this theory:

"A harp can be as dangerous as a sword, in the right hands." - Littlefinger

Every word drips, pregnant with meaning; true to GRRM's style.

| Mic drop

---end original post---

Addendum: Relevant Passages and a Favorite Comment

Here are two passages from the books about Jon's dreams that I think help highlight the narrative appropriateness of this theory:

"The castle is always empty." He had never told anyone of the dream, and he did not understand why he was telling Sam now, yet somehow it felt good to talk of it. "Even the ravens are gone from the rookery, and the stables are full of bones. That always scares me. I start to run then, throwing open doors, climbing the tower three steps at a time, screaming for someone, for anyone. And then I find myself in front of the door to the crypts. It's black inside, and I can see the steps spiraling down. Somehow I know I have to go down there, but I don't want to. I'm afraid of what might be waiting for me. The old Kings of Winter are down there, sitting on their thrones with stone wolves at their feet and iron swords across their laps, but it's not them I'm afraid of. I scream that I'm not a Stark, that this isn't my place, but it's no good, I have to go anyway, so I start down, feeling the walls as I descend, with no torch to light the way. It gets darker and darker, until I want to scream." He stopped, frowning, embarrassed. "That's when I always wake."

Also:

Last night he had dreamt the Winterfell dream again. He was wandering the empty castle, searching for his father, descending into the crypts. Only this time the dream had gone further than before. In the dark he’d heard the scrape of stone on stone. When he turned he saw that the vaults were opening, one after the other. As the dead kings came stumbling from their cold black graves, Jon had woken in pitchdark, his heart hammering.

Finally, If you *really* want to hammer your brain, consider this comment from a redditor (my personal favorite from the original reddit post):

You know what else this post made me see? Jon is literally promised. "Promise me, Ned." If she's talking about Jon, and he's truly rhaegars son, he is literally a prince promised.

I read this before and think its awesome. While I was reading it something else came to mind so I'm going to say it here even if people think it may be crackpot.

Ned was at the Trident. We are never specifically told that Rhaegar was burned after his death although GRRM says he was like all Targs are. No one ever said what happened to the sword he died fighting with or which one it was. I think that sword may be in the crypts of Winterfell and not only that, that Ned had it placed with Brandon or his own father. A sword on a Lord of Winterfell's crypt would not be suspect. Now, Brandon, Osha, Rickon and Hodor all took swords with them when they left the crypts. Wouldn't it be something if one of those swords happen to be a Targ Valyrian Steel sword that Brandon or Hodor ends up killing Blood Raven with? Or, somehow manages to get it to Jon?

There is something about these swords in this book from the opening prologue with the Others to the Dawn and Ice and all of the other special swords that has me thinking they will be playing a huge role in the books to come.

The silver stringed harp that Rhaegar always played was said to make women cry. Leaving it with his love sounds just like him and I'm sure Ned would have taken it with him as well.

Bran had a dream also of his father in the crypts. He said he thought it was something about Jon and that he was very sad. Of course, that something about Jon would be who his mother really is and one or two other things about his heritage.

I like your idea and I'm fairly sure other people have speculated about the crypt being where Jon's proof of identity lies, with his mother, and I hope everyone is right. It would seem to be the most logical place, but GRRM has a way of surprising us and maybe he will do it again!

Oh, and by the way, I think Mance Rayder's harp and the harpist at the Quiet Isle are meant to throw us off the track of where the harp really is and that is with Lyanna.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

Not if he promised Lyanna he would bury it with her.

I don't think Lyanna asked Ned to bury her with Rhaegar's possessions... but if she had Ned promise to "Raise the baby as your own, and one day tell him who his parents are", then Ned might think to grab something of Rhaegar's to give to Jon to offer him proof.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

i could see jon getting told ned was not his father and because jon loves ned he calls BS. he always wanted ned to be his father. SO let's say howland tells him the truth and is like i can prove it. he got down to the tomb and pull out a box was the harp an egg and etc... this is the destrection of the last external thing jon uses to ID himself. i could see all of this being true and jon keeping it a secret.

This is a good point, the proof in the crypt is not meant to prove to others that Jon is a Targaryen but as proof to Jon that he is a Targaryen.

Him riding a Dragon will be hard to keep secret but that is a different argument.

[Cas Stark]

I suspect there is something in the Winterfell crypts, but i doubt it's rhaegar's harp.

[King Viserys Targaryen IV]

To me the harp has always been on the short list of what down in the Stark Crypt's for Jon.

In order I suspect from most likely to least:

Targaryen wedding cloak

Rhaegar's Silver harp

Dragon Egg

Declaration from the King's Guard present at Jon's birth (stating royal birth or something similar)

Torehn's Crown

That is about the only thing that I cant truly think of that might in Lyanna's tomb. Now, could there be the original Ice in another tomb? Maybe but not in Lyanna's

I cant not imagine how a Targaryen Sword (of historical importance anyway) would be down there, as it makes no sense at all

[TheLittlebird]

Wow. :bowdown:to GRRM what a genius. Re-reading the books just now, half way through ASoS and I'll prob have to re-read again because of all the little things you notice when you do. There are so many great theories some of my favourites are-

Rhaegar still being alive (something to do with Elder Brother)

The Daynes..Ashara Dayne alive? who is Edric Dayne? Rhaegars true son?

The Gravedigger (Nobody would kill such a fucking Awesome character off-page...would they? :bawl:)

Anyway I could go on and on but all that talk of the harp and magic horns and stuff got me thinking about the great swords in Westeros and which one will be most important. I cant remember all of the names but I think the sword Stannis the Mannis has is either Dawn (daynes I think) or more likely Brightroar (the one Gerion Lannister went to find in Valayria) I believe The Red Woman came from Asshai and brought it from where ever it was, maybe it is Lightbringer but I don't think Stannis is Azor Ahai reborn.

Jaime has a dream as well before he rescues Brienne. cant seem to get a quote but look it up, sounds like a prophetic dream about the others coming and he and brienne are holding flaming blue swords ( The two halves of Ice)? HURRY UP AND GIVE US WINDS OF WINTER..WE NEED ANSWERS :bang: :bang: and my head will explode like Oberyns if I don't get them soon. someone help

[Blazfemur]

I think the Others aren't going to be the bad guys and that they had a role in establishing the Wall itself.

Adda boy.

I theorized awhile back that "There MUST Always Be A Stark In Winterfell," was more of a stipulation to some agreement, more so than family pride. You know how wildlings give their children (theyre paying a blood tribute), and Others leave them alone?

When Eddard always said "There must always be a stark in winterfell," I dont think it was pride, again. I read it more like, "There MUST always be a Stark," like he's reiterating the lines of a contract of a sort. Think of it, there's none now, and that snowstorm is getting more aggressive, isnt it?

You know how Balon gave Theon to the Stark's as a ward, to maintain peace? What if "there MUST," is the Stark's way of maintaining peace, paying their own personal blood tribute.. By keeping a fellow Stark in Winterfell as a blood ward, it satisfies some form of agreement, and compliance. Again, look at how bad that storm is hitting winterfell right now with NO Stark's there. Winter, is arriving.

[Blazfemur]

I suspect there is something in the Winterfell crypts, but i doubt it's rhaegar's harp.

it would absolutely be one of the biggest let downs, if it's the goddamn harp we get after all this waiting. whatever's in Winterfell's crypts is one of the last big unexpected twists GRRM can give us. Something utterly awe inspiring and jaw dropping. Dont make it a goddamn harp.

[robwoody]

lolwut?

How can a bloody harp prove Jon's legitimacy? How would that reveal even go?

Jon (waving the harp in the air): "I'm Rhaegar's son!"

Random Lord: "So you are! That's the harp I saw Rhaegar play at Harrenhall, I'll be bound! Fifteen years inside a dark, damp tomb and it hasn't changed a whit. Amazing!"

Random Lord 2:"You're still a bastard, boy!"

Jon Snow: "Ah! But I also found a bridal cloak (also in pristine condition) and an official marriage document (Completely undamaged because Rhaegar 'magicked' it). I'm the King yo!"

Random Lord 3: "My Lords, that sounds very legit. You can't dispute that sort of concrete evidence!"

Aegon's path to proving his legitimacy is a lot less daunting than Jon's. Aegon looks like a Targaryen and he's only supposed to be dead. Jon looks nothing like a Targ and he's not even supposed to exist.

Fact of the matter is, Jon cannot prove his legitimacy to anyone. Not unless GRRM comes up with a new kind of magic to facilitate the reveal which is unlikely.

It would go like this: Jon swoops in on a fucking dragon. People either burn or kneel in front of him. He doesn't have to convince anyone of his claim cause he isn't interested in ruling, he has the wall to watch over. He takes over by force, and people accept it cause HE'LL HAVE A DRAGON.

When they ask where did ned stark's bastard get a dragon? He'll answer my mother, ned stark's sister, left me this harp since it was her dying wish that I would have my father's gift. Then he'd play a song to lull the dragon into submission and call ghost to his side and everyone would follow his strength, his powers, because words are just wind. People will fill in the blanks about the prophecy for themselves, small folk like you love doing that once the pieces are laid out all nice and pretty for you.

Ser Eric you should seriously look into changing your perspective, going through life with that pessimistic, close-minded, unimaginative attitude will attract a world of negativity

[Ser Harly of Southwell]

I like it a lot. Though it could always be argued the harp was sacked from Kings Landing... This finally gives me a good base to understand Jon's crypt dreams though. It may not be the harp, but something is down there.

[Sword of the Morgan]

I really like the last little bit about being literally promised. I don't think I've seen that before.

I think this is all very plausible. I guess what I don't understand is, what does the harp do for Jon? Sure, he could present the harp to major lords, but what prevents them from just saying, "And what does this have to do with you, bastard" How does the harp's presence in Winterfell prove anything regarding Jon specifically?

[Grayce Hornwood]

This is a very well-thought out and researched theory. While I do think there are other things in the crypts that will prove Jon's legitimacy, this makes a ton of sense as to where the harp is. It doesn't make sense for an item such as the harp to be mentioned in association with Rhaegar as often as it is, and then to just disappear and never be seen again. The harp probably won't be the crux that proves Jon is a Targ, but you've definitely convinced me that it's down there with Lyanna. Well done. :cheers:

[ummester]

I think that Rhaegar is/was the prince that was promised. I don't think his offspring are necessarily the 3 heads of the dragon.

Re the harp in the tomb, yea, it makes sense - but so what? If the Song of Ice and Fire is just the song about the kids that Rhaegar made, it's kind of a fizzer. If it doesn't build to anything climatic, surely it will be a let down?

[Man of Many Faces]

I just found this theory and don't feel like reading through 12 pages of comments at the moment so pardon me if this has been said a million times already, as I am sure it has. (I'll read the comment pages later when I have time. I really like the thought of the harp being in the tomb as it is such a personal item/token of Rheagar's, and I could see how it would symbolize his love for Lyanna.

My biggest issue is that I don't see how that would prove Jon is their kid. I would imagine Jon would open the tomb and be like "cool a harp...that's what I was supposed to find down here?...lame." There is definitely something in the tomb that is important, and the harp is important since GRRM keeps mentioning it, but there has to be more that would prove to Jon (who was never alive to understand that the harp was his dads favorite thing) who his true parents are. It may be a supporting element but not the sole one.

But very good theory, and I loved the quote about him being literally promised over.

[MakeThemBurn]

I like the theory but like the poster above me I don't really see how Jon would understand the significance of a harp in his aunts tomb.

I feel like the importance of Jon's parents have been blown out of proportion anyway. It will have a huge impact on his identity but politically nothing's going to change. He's still a bastard and there is already Aegon running around claiming he's a Targaryen. Even if he did have a claim - which he does not - and was interested in political power - which he is not, would anyone believe him after Aegon was proven to be a pretender?

[Blind Beth the Cat Lady]

I think I read this awhile ago but just re-read it and it still holds up.

I think the reason I never would have put this together myself is that I tend to think of Jon discovering his heritage as being a positive thing, and his dreams about the crypts are so full of dread. But perhaps this all means that Jon finding out his is a Targ will actually be a very stressful burden, or at least major jerking of his identity-rug out from under him. Maybe when we get the revelation we've been waiting for it will be more "oh crap, now poor Jon has to go handle a bunch of terrible stuff," rather than "yay, cool, dragons!"

Edit: To those who don't understand how Jon will know the significance of the harp, consider that he may initially "find" it in a dream and will know the harp for what it is with the same psychic magic that enables these true dreams in the first place.

[Grail King]

I really like the last little bit about being literally promised. I don't think I've seen that before.

I think this is all very plausible. I guess what I don't understand is, what does the harp do for Jon? Sure, he could present the harp to major lords, but what prevents them from just saying, "And what does this have to do with you, bastard" How does the harp's presence in Winterfell prove anything regarding Jon specifically?

Maybe there is something hidden in the harp, though what ever is in the crypts if it refers to Jon will be three objects not just one

( I believe in the harp, cloak, KOW crown).

[matchesmcfly]

The only thing that would prove Jon legit in the eyes of the realm, (Imo anyway) would be a dragon binding to him And i would hope that that happens since, I think he's going to need a veritable treasure trove to prove that he is rhaegar's son.

The harp, dark sister, an egg, a targ signet ring like the one egg had, he'll maybe even a targ crown too, otherwise, I doubt anyone In the realm will care much.

[AllOfTheHours]

This theory is terrific! Really well laid out and clearly helps to move the plot forward. Kudos! :cheers:

I really love the idea that Ned really was a "traitor," protecting the son of the dethroned Targs from the "king's justice." Plus, I really like having the harp be the key and Jon constantly being drawn deep into the crypts (to Lyanna and the Harp). Very cool.

I think in terms of proving his legitimacy, he doesn't have to prove it to the realm (most people don't really care whose king so long as they have good harvests and a semblance of justice). He only has to prove it to people in power/people who knew Rhaegar (Barriston, JonCon, Dany, a few high lords, etc.). If he has the support of the people who command armies, he doesn't need the support of every soldier, so to speak.