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A Theory: The possibly game-changing secret beneath the Winterfell Crypts

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I've been thinking a bit about this. I agree with people that it serves more to proove to Jon who his parents are than to proove his legitimacy to anyone else. Also, if Jon does finish his dream in his half-dead stage, than it doesn't really matter that the items themselves wouldn't proove to him directly he's Lyanna's and Rhaegar's son - it is enough for the dream to tell him (in a more creative way I assume) "the cript holds the key to your parentage". He might even see Lyanna in his dream (not sure if he would recognize her in the dream/sleep/coma, but he might recognize the woman from the dream once he's in the crypt).

If there are items there, it also makes sense for Ned to have to disguise these objects. Would be quite odd to be found out with these objects once in Winterfell or on the road, so they need to be something he can hide well enough and not be afraid to have others glimpse at.

So here's a (slightly crackpot maybe) idea:

The crown might have been hidden - in Lyannas crown. I don't have the books with me right now, but I do believe there've been a few mentions of Lyannas "crown of winter roses". So if you put a wrath of roses over an actual crown, it makes sense for Ned to bring this with him. I'm aware of the fact that fresh roses might rot, but dried roses might do the trick? And Ned does remember roses in the "Lyanna is dying" scene.

As far as the egg is concearned, that's hard to hide. However, dragon bones are not, especially if you're carriyi g bones with you - it's fairly likely no one would be picking Lyanna's actual bones in detail.

Lastly, the harp. A harp might be hard to hide. However, a bunch of silver strings wouldn't. Especially not in a wrath of dried winter roses. It also allows for the music to control the dragins, if the key are the strings that are somehow special, not necessarily a harp itself.

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Yeah, I think that there are mostly likely items that will help lead Jon on the path to discovering his lineage and true parents, but I don't think they will immediately reveal all that to him. If he does have a dead/coma dream it could guide him to the Crypt, that will then guide him somewhere else, but I don't know if it will all be there in one place. But who knows.


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I don't know why people think women aren't typically buried in the Winterfell crypts. Where else would they be buried? Just because they aren't explicitly mentioned doesn't mean they aren't there. They might not all have statues, but that is where their graves are. It's stated that only the Kings of Winter and Lords of Winterfell have swords, not that only they are buried there. Isn't there something in the text (can't find it at the moment) that says that is where ALL the Stark children will be buried one day? Not just the boys?


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Nice theory and very well researched.



I do not think that the harpy necessarily legitimizes Jon, but it being buried down there makes sense to me.



I have a euqestion for all those who believe a egg is burried down there:


I did not read Dunken & Egg, but from what I read here an dragon egg symbolyzes the birth of a Targaryen prince, am I right? But was that tratidion kept for Rhaegar, Aerys II, Viserys...? From what I know dragon eggs are a very rare item since the dragon are gone. So rare I cannot recall that more recent Targaryen princen where given eggs when they were born. If this tradition died a dragon egg has no meaning at all. Am I missing something?


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And then Ned never particularly brings Jon in the crypts, and leaves him go in the NW.


I mean, sure, "proving Jon lineage" was so important he had to defy his ancestors' and the Northern lords' jugement (and imagine the reaction of Lady Dustin when she's already resentful for Ned only bringing back Lyanna's bones, and then she discovers it's the enemy's "harpe" instead?). Ned is them tourmented by the promise, he "prays" "they would grow close as brothers, etc...". And before Jon's going to forsake his whole identity/lineage, Ned just forget his promise, and let him go.



Sorry but there's too much holes in your theory.


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And then Ned never particularly brings Jon in the crypts, and leaves him go in the NW.

I mean, sure, "proving Jon lineage" was so important he had to defy his ancestors' and the Northern lords' jugement (and imagine the reaction of Lady Dustin when she's already resentful for Ned only bringing back Lyanna's bones, and then she discovers it's the enemy's "harpe" instead?). Ned is them tourmented by the promise, he "prays" "they would grow close as brothers, etc...". And before Jon's going to forsake his whole identity/lineage, Ned just forget his promise, and let him go.

Sorry but there's too much holes in your theory.

Ned's promise was most likely to keep Jon safe. Letting him join the Night's Watch (which was Jon's choice, not Ned's) keeps him safe. The Targaryens are not on the throne anymore, and even if Jon had known Rhaegar was his father, he would be in no position to fight a war for the throne.

Ned is tormented by the lies he has to tell to people he loves. Letting his wife think that he betrayed her when he didn't. Lying to his king and BFF Robert about Jon's parentage. Even lying to Jon about who he truly is. Two of those are constant, every day lying. Sure breaking tradition might be bothering him a bit, but I think it's the toll of the ongoing deception that's really getting to him.

What Lady Dustin's reaction might be has nothing to do with what Ned did or did not put in his sister's tomb 15+ years ago.

None of your objections illuminate any holes in this theory.

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Jon never thinks about his mother in their POVs but his subconciiente have that doubt that the sueƱossobre existencial.Por crypt there is the answer in physical form in your madre.TambiƩn can curpos there hears the whole story but I that anger in a dream vision in which the end of the road is Ned ghost and tell her everything.

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I'm sorry to breath life into this older thread but I just discovered it and I loved this theory! bada$$





To me the harp has always been on the short list of what down in the Stark Crypt's for Jon.


In order I suspect from most likely to least:


Targaryen wedding cloak


Rhaegar's Silver harp


Dragon Egg


Declaration from the King's Guard present at Jon's birth (stating royal birth or something similar)


Torehn's Crown





I wonder what else could be down there. This is a good list, Which swords were taken and what other ones could be down there... (with names)





I think the Others aren't going to be the bad guys and that they had a role in establishing the Wall itself. I think the Stark crypts will act as a last line of defense when it looks like everything is lost the Horn of Winter will be sounded and the spirits that are buried beneath Winterfell along with the 79 Sentinels on the wall will wake and create the ultimate army. They will follow the Stark in Winterfell thus the reason why "There must always be a Stark in Winterfell." and also the reason why the Stark words are "Winter is Coming."



I also believe we are going to see through Bran that Ser Arthur Dayne sacrificed himself to Ned the same as the Halfhand did to Jon.





I think that the WW won't be an "enemy" either. Just different. And I like your theories. Winterfell as a last line of defense. And I think it would be interesting is Dayne sacrificed himself. I don't know that he did but I don't think it would be a strech especially if he was the most skilled swordsman around.





Maybe there is something hidden in the harp, though what ever is in the crypts if it refers to Jon will be three objects not just one


( I believe in the harp, cloak, KOW crown).




What could be hidden in the harp? I love love love this idea! Maybe the Lyre has a confessional note or something. Letter to his son? I know the Horns aren't there, but the OCD in me wants all of these relics together and then when they are all in the same room they light up and a dragon spawns from them.


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What could be hidden in the harp? I love love love this idea! Maybe the Lyre has a confessional note or something. Letter to his son? I know the Horns aren't there, but the OCD in me wants all of these relics together and then when they are all in the same room they light up and a dragon spawns from them.

I thought that a written - down song could be hidden with the harp. A song Rhaegar wrote. A song we have heard about in the HotU prophecy: The Song of Ice and Fire.

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So are we speculating Jon's body is getting taken to Winterfell for burial in the crypts or?? How else is "dead" Jon going to find the goodies that are promised?


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Quote function is not working, but I agree with Amris. If there is something hidden with the harp then it would likely be a song that Rhaegar wrote. Maybe it's too much to hope for something so neatly tied up in a bow, but it certainly would be nice.


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I love this - thank you for posting. Since there's evidence of a TOJ scene in Season 6, do you think Jon's dead/warg dream will be that of the events at the TOJ in TWoW?


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My personal theory is that if Jon is indeed the human embodiment of ice and fire, he will eventually need the harp. Simply put, he will need the harp to harmonize the forces of ice and fire to restore their balance. In Dany's vision, Rhaegar says of his son Aegon "his is the Song of Ice and Fire" and then begins to play his harp. If Jon is the Promised Prince, then the Song of Ice and Fire is his. I think the melody of the song, played on those special silver strings or perhaps the sound frequency of the song has the power to achieve that balance. So yes, I can see the harp waiting in Lyanna's tomb. The instrument itself will not tell Jon anything regarding his parentage though - someone will have to reveal that to him. I wonder how much Mance knows about all this?


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