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Tyrion1991

Jon and Val an item in WoW?

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It's hard to say for me. Ramsay demanded things from Jon that he didn't even have on threat of marching on Castle Black and killing everyone. Since castle black is not easily defended from the south it makes sense to ambush him on his way north and defend the nights watch along with the wall. Marching all the way to Winterfell is another matter I think.

The easy answer is that the Watch takes no part. Jon’s men would have gladly given up Queen Selyse, Shireen, and Melisandre.

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I think there's a chance of what you're proposing coming to pass, yep. Jon's arc does have a number of allusions to kingship in it. I've debated this before, internally mind you, because Rickon is a factor here and there's a certain truth to the idea that Jon is not the sort of man to usurp his brother's inheritance, even on a technicality. On the other hand, Rickon won't be capable of ruling in his own right (and making heirs, which is equally important) for another decade. So there's wiggle room and that's certainly a path that Martin could have him tread.

You're right, but as of now, Jon still thinks that Rickon is dead. Not even Wyman Manderly, who asked Davos to find him, is sure that he is alive -- as far as he knows, Rickon is with wildling woman in an islands known for its supposed cannibals.

Everything will depend on the timing. If Jon gets Robb's will before Rickon returns he will decide one thing, if it happens later, he'll make another decision. Maybe Stannis will be dead (or playing dead) by the time he sees the will, maybe he won't. Maybe he will even be acquainted to his possible Targaryen heritage. Every piece of information that he has when it's time to decide what he will do next will influence his decision.

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The easy answer is that the Watch takes no part. Jon’s men would have gladly given up Queen Selyse, Shireen, and Melisandre.

I don't think its that easy at all. Ramsay Bolton is a mad man, it is not taking sides to say that he obviously has screws loose. If an insane person starts making demands of you that you cannot meet, giving him half may not appease him. In fact I would say that Jeyne Poole and Theon were the 2 people Ramsay would want most of all, although I'm sure he would enjoy playing with the others. There is also the fact that giving all the people he did have to Ramsay would in itself be picking sides. It would simply be picking the side that seemed to be winning rather than the side that seemed to be loosing.

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Val sounds amazing, so I hope she ends up with someone great, Jon will do. She has to be older than him right? But if some of the speculation is right she is a Priestess of the Old Gods so maybe she doesn't really age.


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Hes not dead BTW.

Moving on. I think this probably will happen because I think GRRM wants to put Jon center stage in the North in readiness for the last battle with the Others. This will include leading the wildlings along with the North and the red worshippers with Melisandre. Val certainly seems to be interested in him and once free or pushed out of his vows he will probably be more welcoming of such companionship. This she would be a useful way of further proving that he is one of them and they would respect him more for it.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO noooooooooooooooooooo Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo BIG NO NO NO NO NO

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val will play a role in saving jon ..i suppose she could end up his wife i read in another thread gillys baby mances son and jons children i t being raised by val and jon as rickons regent.jons marriage to val will be complicated if danearys an jon become an item.


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I don't see Jon and Val becoming any longterm thing. He's got an arc about him coming back including great changes for his status quo that will probably eat up most of TWOW. Val may play a role in that, along with Mel, but I don't see them being an item that rides off into the sunset. Perhaps she will become a choice he will be presented with.



As far as Jon abandoning his vows when he comes back, I really think it will be a matter of him not having a choice in the matter. He will be informed he was released from his vows. He will probably try to retake his vows to re-enlist and be refused by his former brothers. Hell, they could refuse him for his own good if Jon's lineage suddenly becomes common knowledge.


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Val won't stand a chance after Satin spends months nursing Jon back to health. The vow says that "I shall take no wife", but it says nothing about not taking another man. :pimp:

LOL. You would be a fantastic lawyer.

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Well pretty obvious Val likes him and the constant imagery with Ghosts and Jon continually praising her makes me think that yes they'll end up a couple. I'd be very surprised if they weren't anyways.



As for the whole vow argument, let's be honest, it's very unlikely that by the end of the series there will still be a need for a nightwatch with the great evil defeated. I think the number of lord commanders we've had also allude to this.


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I was never a fan of Val, as well as this pairing, so I don't really want to see it happen, but who knows?


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It could be. Maybe Jon will say to hell with NW and wows after stabbing and will go wild, but I doubt that they will last long.


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I totally see Val and Jon getting together. She's clearly into him, her protests about hurting him if he tries anything are just for show. If she really intended to hurt him Ghost wouldn't love her as much as he does. She doesn't mean him any harm.

We keep talking about Jon forsaking his vows but its extremely likely the watch lets him leave. An assassination attempt won't go unanswered. I don't see the watch holding him to a vow made to a brotherhood that tried to kill him. He may not have a choice in the matter, the Wildings, the Queen, the mountain clans, northmen, other watch members, may negotiate his exit. In that case there is no reason to think he won't get friendly with Val.

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I actually love Val and she and Jon certainly have some chemistry, so why not? It's definitively better than the Jon/Sansa and Jon/Arya pairings I've seen. And, even though I know there is a huge group of fans of Jon/Dany, I'd much rather see him end up with Val. I just don't see Jon and Dany getting along, sorry. Maybe if we're ever given scenes with them, but right now they are just to different to even speak civilly, I think, while he and Val are shown to be friends (somewhat). They trust each other (he lets her go to search Tormund, she comes back even though she could have easily disappeared). And of course Ghost likes Val. I always took that as a hint for a romantic future of Jon and Val.


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I have to agree Jon and Val makes sense. Dany and Jon are like the halves to a greater whole. Yet instill they aren't going to like each other. Jon is the alpha of the stark pack and dany will be the alpha of the Targ pack. Dany blames Jon's family for the downfall of her own, even when people tell her different she still doesn't listen. Nor do I see Jon giving Dany any reason to love him better when it's found out that he's her nephew, her noble brother wanted him not Aegon to be heir well that might make things a little more messy let's just say. The fates are interwined but that doesn't mean that they have to tolerate each other.


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Think your last paragraph makes some sense, Big Daddy Dave.

Conquering Bastard, see some merit here. However, if Dany gets past this and he becomes a head of the dragon, I could see Jon being the one that betrays her for love. Jon's love is for the Starks, Winterfell, the North, and even the wildlings. Possibly even Val!

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I don't expect Jon and Val becaming item in TWOW simply because I think Jon will spend most (if not entire) TWOW warged in his direwolf. I am not sure Vall will be still around or even alive by the time Jon "awakens".


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They have good chemistry, he knows how to win over wilding women, and she's desperate not to end-up with a southron. Makes sense to me, as long as GRRM doesnt have him hooking up with Dany in mind. In which case if he does get with Val, she will die just like Ygritte.

This is under the assumption Jon isn't dead and he spends no more than 2 POV chapters warged into Ghost before becoming Jon again.

Plus, if this truly is a story of ice and fire, Jon needs to be prominent amongst the Wildings and the North before he ally's with Dany, who will probably conquer the South.

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