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  2. Tywin Manderly

    Appropriate Punishment for Catelyn

    Very unfortunately there is little information available because Jaime largely slept through his own release.
  3. sologdin

    Literature Of Old: Plutarch, Appian, Herodotus

    i like herodotus as a recorder of others' beliefs, and have no problem accepting his sincerity there, even if he may be a bit credulous at times in that epistemologically limited respect.
  4. enne

    Hugo Nominations and Awards - Onwards to 2020

    Alrighty! Here's what I'm considering: NOVEL For novels I've only really locked onto Steel Crow Saga by Paul Kreuger (Del Rey), The True Bastards by Jonathan French (Crown) and A Choir of Lies by Alexandra Rowland (Gallery / Saga Press). The latter two are sequels, so the fact that I can read them standalone on top of their quality is a huge plus in my eyes. Gideon the Ninth by Tamsyn Muir is a frontrunner but only the humor really worked for me, I found the worldbuilding boring and the romance stuffed with two many uncomfortable undertones (it's essentially between a slave and her master). NOVELLA Nothing off the beaten path here. This Is How You Lose the Time War by Amal El-Mohtar and Max Gladstone (Saga Press) and To Be Taught, If Fortunate by Becky Chambers (Harper Voyager). Plan on reading “Waterlines” by Suzanne Palmer (Asimov’s Science Fiction, July-August 2019) as that's been getting a lot of buzz. NOVELETTE “Anxiety is the Dizziness of Freedom,” Ted Chiang (Exhalation). Haven't read much novelettes this year. Or short stories (yet). GRAPHIC STORY Frustrating category for me, so many good comics get ignored for the usual suspects. Image Comics seems to have an iron-clad grip on the category and Hugo voters rarely seek out other comics. The only real lock for me at this stage is The Adventure Zone: Murder on the Rockport Limited! by the McElroys, art. Carey Pietsch (First Second). Other than that I'm nominating two things of dubious eligibility - Tom King's run on Mister Miracle (DC) which released a TPB this year, and the third volume of Kill 6 Billion Demons, which finished last year on the web but was put in print by Image this year (in too-small font print). Other than that, I don't know. I'm considering Adam Warren's Empowered Volume 11 (Dark Horse) but that might be too out there. DRAMATIC PRESENTATION - SHORT FORM Hard category - one one hand, there's no Doctor Who this year (thank God, though Good Omens might fill that void, which I guess I'm okay with as long as only one episode is a finalist), but on the other hand you have stuff like The Mandalorian, The Man in the High Castle, Watchmen, His Dark Materials, The Good Place (I still adore it very much, but it really should have only been nominated for "Michael's Gambit" and "Janet(s)") and The Expanse filling up the latter half of the year, so it still feels too soon to make a definitive list. The one true lock I have so far is "Twin Cities," a standout of Counterpart's premature final season, with the first part of the web series Interface as a potential dark horse pick. I run an IMDb list to try and catalogue as much stand-alone entries as I can to help me and fellow voters out. DRAMATIC PRESENTATION - LONG FORM Mildly easier: The Lighthouse is the one film that's a lock on my ballot. Everything else - Avengers: Endgame, Ad Astra, Joker - feels imperfect, each held back by some factor(s) that make me question putting it on my ballot. 2019 is a rough year for genre filmmaking.* Genre television, on the other hand? I've had the first seasons of The Dark Crystal: Age of Resistance (the best epic fantasy show of the year, sorry if that's heretical on this site) and Russian Doll (a fresh, hilarious yet emotional take on the time loop concept that I haven't stopped thinking about all year - a complete story that shouldn't have been renewed) on my list. IMO, it seems like most of the inventive speculative dramatic fiction has moved on to smaller screens; I've been more impressed by longform television. Oh, and Chernobyl. That may be pushing it but the Hugos have had no challenged nominating works like Apollo 13 and Hidden Figures. Chernobyl isn't as positive as those two works but it is heavily based in science, both in its damaging negatives and its heroic, if futile positives. Also running an IMDb list for this. Guess what my favorite (and most frustrating) categories are. LODESTAR Pet by Akwaeke Emezi (Make Me a World), Deeplight by Frances Hardinge (Macmillan Children's Books), The Wicked King by Holly Black (Little, Brown Books for Young Readers), Avatar, The Last Airbender: The Rise of Kyoshi by F.C. Yee and Michael Dante DiMartino (Amulet Books) and Fireborne by Rosaria Munda (G.P. Putnam's Sons Books for Young Readers). This is the only category I've filled in so that feels nice. Thoughts? Critiques? Roasts? What are you guys nominating? *I've written up a proposal to extend the eligibility of Bacurau, a weird western/dystopian Brazilian film that played in the festival circuit and little elsewhere. So keep an eye out for that.
  5. Tywin Manderly

    Northern Coinage

    It is very unfortunate that the Kingdom of the North and the Trident was way too short-lived to get round to dealing with matters like this.
  6. Corvinus

    Game of Star Wars: The Final Hope

    A couple of weeks ago I got the youtube app. Prior to this I was using the Mozilla app to access youtube.
  7. Many-Faced Votary

    Game: You are Littlefinger, what do you do?

    Agreed! That is not to say that he doesn't have some manner of contingency should things not go his way, mind, but he most certainly will not be multiple steps ahead of her or anticipate her every move, as some people seem to believe.
  8. The Mother of The Others

    NFL 2019: After A Quarter, Are They Who We Thought They Were?

    The Bears. But also we saw a preview of how the Saints season will end. Somebody will recover 17 onside kicks in a row on them.
  9. Many-Faced Votary

    A New Husband for the Lady Donella Hornwood

    Ser Rodrik Cassel would indeed have been the ideal match, for temporary stability if nothing else. However, Lady Donella Hornwood declined to remarry another and the claimants to Hornwood were numerous. Because Lady Donella was past childbearing age, the most sensible move from a political perspective would have been to legitimize Larence Snow, as Bran Stark suggested. She would likely have been named Lady Castellan in such an event, but she might have understandably (from a Westerosi perspective) taken issue with this even if it would have rekindled the line of succession.
  10. S. D

    Gender relations in Westeros

    Cersei's speech to Sansa touches a bit on this - but I agree there could have been more on the other after effects of sexual violence - PTSD, flashbacks, depression, body image issues, shame, etc. Jaime has disassociation and PTSD from his time spent as Aerys' Kingsguard, we could have seen something similar to this from female characters. Sansa's wrong recollection of the events when the Hound assaulted her and put a knife to her throat can be seen as her mind protecting itself by creating fake memories. Yeah Dany really bothered me a lot - it almost seemed like her relationship with Drogo empowered her instead of the opposite. Gilly also doesn't seem realistic to me, though maybe I don't actually know enough to judge. I think Shae was pretty realistic. In one scene she mocks Lollys' gang rape - which is of course, a terrible thing to do, but victims of sexual abuse often distance themselves from their abuse so that it doesn't overwhelm them. Her becoming a prostitute also makes sense, as a side effect many people become promiscuous and attention seeking (though in Westeros, she couldn't get a job any way else). Oh great. We'll rate it like this, adding or subtracting points if they count as healthy and unhealthy. I'll just mash 4 and 7 together as they're basically the same, and add 3 more points: 1. Violence (3) 2. Rape (question is of course, when is it rape?) (3) 3. Love/respect (3) 4. does the husband ask/value the wife's opinion? (2) 5. does the husband have the well- being of the wife in mind/ does he care for her as a person? (2) 6. Does he force her (often) to do things she doesn't want to do? (2) 7. Does he have mistresses/does he cheat on his wife? (2) 8. Does the wife come from a family which has equal or more power than the husband's family? (3) 9. Is the husband close in age to the wife? (2) 10. General: does he take advantage of his power over her (how often)? (what would be considered taking advantage of his power? (Only 1, as its almost impossible for the husband not to abuse his power in a such a system). Let's take Ned and Cat and Robert and Cersei. Ned and Cat: 1. No (+3) 2. Now this is a very hard thing to judge, because entering a marriage where you can't say no to sex means you can't say yes to sex either. But if we reduce rape to its simplest terms, where one partner forces themselves on the other without the other's consent, and no attempt at dissuading would prevent it - I'd say, No. (+3) 3. Yes (+3) 4. Yes (+2) 5. Yes (+2) 6. Ned keeps Jon in Winterfell against Cat's wishes and ordered Cat to never speak of Jon's origins to him - given that Ned could have Jon fostered elsewhere and had been a bit more kind to Cat given her situation, so yes, and there's also this: Yes,” Ned said dully. He seated himself in a chair by the hearth. “Catelyn, you shall stay here in Winterfell.” His words were like an icy draft through her heart. “No,” she said, suddenly afraid. Was this to be her punishment? Never to see his face again, nor to feel his arms around her? “Yes,” Ned said, in words that would brook no argument. “You must govern the north in my stead, while I run Robert’s errands. There must always be a Stark in Winterfell. Robb is fourteen. Soon enough, he will be a man grown. He must learn to rule, and I will not be here for him. Make him part of your councils. He must be ready when his time comes.” Sansa would shine in the south, Catelyn thought to herself, and the gods knew that Arya needed refinement. Reluctantly, she let go of them in her heart. But not Bran. Never Bran. “Yes,” she said, “but please, Ned, for the love you bear me, let Bran remain here at Winterfell. He is only seven.” “I was eight when my father sent me to foster at the Eyrie,” Ned said. “Ser Rodrik tells me there is bad feeling between Robb and Prince Joffrey. That is not healthy. Bran can bridge that distance. He is a sweet boy, quick to laugh, easy to love. Let him grow up with the young princes, let him become their friend as Robert became mine. Our House will be the safer for it.” He was right; Catelyn knew it. It did not make the pain any easier to bear. -AGOT, Catelyn II So, yes, he does force Cat to do things she doesn't want to. (-2) 7. No (+2) 8. Yes (+3) 9. Yes (+2) 10. Uh....this one is hard to answer. Would raising Jon as an equal alongside his children count as taking advantage of his power over Cat, as she can't do anything about it? I say Yes. (-1) So let's see, 20/23 in the healthiness scale. Pretty healthy. Robert and Cersei: 1. Yes (-3) 2. Yes (-3) 3. Nope (-3) 4. He let's her nag him until she gives in to his demands - does that count? Yes.(+2) 5. Lol no (-2) 6. Yes (-2) 7. Yes (-2) 8. No, he's the king and there is no higher authority. (-3) 9. Yes, she was 17 and he 21 when they married. (+2). 10. Yes, he orders her to shut up or to leave at times, and also the rape, whoring and beatings. (-1) So 4/23 on the healthiness scale... The only example of a truly equal couple I can think of though, is Dany and Hizdahr. And that's because she has dragons.
  11. Nagini's Neville

    Game: You are Littlefinger, what do you do?

    Exactly, I don't think he is participially smart in the way he's treating her. If sansa were to get a way out, she would take it and that's not good for LF. So I really don't know what he is doing
  12. The Map Guy

    Easy Peasy Lemon Squeezy - A Quentyn Tarantino Theory

    Oops sorry. With all the talks of the lemon tree, I kind of forgot about the red door. Don't worry I certainly haven't forgotten about that! Oberyn Martell brought over the lemon tree to Braavos. Oberyn Nymeros Martell is called the RED Viper of DORne Red Door = Red ... Dor... For you book-only readers, according to GRRM ... 'dor' = door Trust me on this one, I have insider information
  13. Tywin Manderly

    Why did the Freys torture Cat before her death, but not Robb?

    The more the merrier!
  14. Many-Faced Votary

    Game: You are Littlefinger, what do you do?

    No, I don't believe Petyr knows Sansa better than the reader, who has the benefit of her PoV chapters, particularly given how it has been implied more than once that his obsession with Catelyn blinds him.
  15. Tywin Manderly

    A New Husband for the Lady Donella Hornwood

    Indeed! And the Lady Donella Hornwood fancied Ser Rodrik, but unfortunately he himself thought that he was beneath the Lady Donella's station as well as too old.
  16. Yesterday
  17. Many-Faced Votary

    Why did the Freys torture Cat before her death, but not Robb?

    Seconded. (Thirded?)
  18. So how does Mick Mulvaney still have a job? A screwup like Thursday's is enough for a CoS to resign in shame. Now he's done it twice within 72 hours? Is this like a suicide-by-cop thing?
  19. Many-Faced Votary


    Salutations, friends! I simply wanted to drop in here to say "hello." I started reading A Song of Ice and Fire approximately eighteen years ago; I immediately fell in love with the series and the universe. I have since greatly enjoyed discussing the plot and characters, analyzing the works' profundity, assessing fan theories, and even propounding some hypotheses of my own. I have reread the main series a couple of times and hope to explore it further, and I am also conversant with the accompanying histories and other works, although I have not perused them as religiously -- yet. This is perhaps a bit irrelevant, but I do want to assert that I love each of the published books in the main series, and that I can appreciate and am able to empathize with most characters -- particularly when their introspection and other benefits of a Point of View are available. I must here admit that I had qualms about HBO's television adaptation Game of Thrones since the beginning: although I understand the difficulties of adaptation and allow that a TV show could never hope to exhibit as much perspicacity, significance, and detail as a book series could, there were certain failures of thematic translation and other questionable choices that raised flags for me. Having said that, I appreciated the unique quality of the early adaptation. As such, I was an eager fan of the first four seasons despite my relatively few objections, but am -- rightfully, I must humbly submit -- nothing but critical of the latter half of the show, which deserves absolutely none of the acclaim and accolades it has received, particularly in light of how the popular reception compares to the actual good part of the series. I did previously have an account here, long ago. However, as I can recall neither its credentials nor the associated email, and because I have not been affiliated with the community with a long time, I am essentially writing this brief introduction as a new member. Valar dohaeris; I look forward to conversing with you all regarding matters of all sorts, insomuch as I am able. Take care, all!
  20. Jeor

    Rugby: Building up to Japan

    Yes, it was a close one - one point victory, and don't forget the French also hit the post on a conversion attempt and a penalty attempt. You literally could not have had a closer game, but Wales really should have put the game away with France playing a whole half hour with a red. My calls for the semis - NZ to get past England in a thriller, South Africa to steamroll Wales by 15-20 points.
  21. Warning: This post contains links to content with strong language and graphic violence. Viewer discretion is advised. When life gives you lemons, you make lemonade. When GRRM gives you lemons, silly people make complicated Lemongate theories. Let us take it easy for a bit. Lemongate: The lemon tree and the red door in Dany's past were never in Braavos because lemon trees do not grow in Braavos! This mean Dany was raised in Dorne! This could be SIGNIFICANT! This could means R+L=D!!!! Seriously, who are these crazy people that think they can redefine the traditional R+L=J theory that stood strong for decades?? Geezz Anti-Lemongate: The lemon tree and red door were in Braavos. The Sealord of Braavos had private gardens or courts that can take care of one single lemon tree. This lemon tree is just a childhood memory and has NO SIGNIFICANT meaning in the future. Easy Peasy Lemon Squeezy: The easiest SIGNIFICANT explanation for Dany's lemon tree (a middle-ground for both Lemongate and anti-Lemongate) is that it was brought over by Oberyn Martell as a gift to Viserys and Daenerys when he signed the marriage pact with Ser Willem Darry, in Braavos. Darry, Viserys and Dany were suppose to see this lemon tree everyday in the courtyard as a reminder that they still have allies in Westeros. But Dany was too young to understand, and Viserys would have prematurely sailed to Sunspear if he found out. This childhood heirloom of Daenerys becomes a long lost secret. Dany will eventually spear-head her Westerosi invasion at Sunspear, through the welcoming doors of Dorne and Doran Martell. When Dany and Doran finally meet, Doran would reminisce about Oberyn's mission in Braavos and the lemon tree he brought over. This is where Dany realizes Doran is not lying about the original marriage pact. This lemon tree from her childhood is something only she would know, and it proves Dorne were Targaryen loyalists from the beginning. While Doran kind of forgot to tell Quentyn about Oberyn's lemon tree ... Dany certainly haven't forgotten about hers. This could of changed Quentyn's fate in Meereen. This sound so familiar ... sounds like something from a TV show or a movie ... I think it was a Quentin Tarantino movie. The Forgetting and Forgotten Lemon - Pulp Fiction 1994 In this Tarantino's movie, the character Butch (played by Bruce Willis) just back-stabbed his crime-boss' plan of a rigged boxing match. His betrayal has worked perfectly and he was about to skip town with the money he won from re-rigging the boxing match ... until his girlfriend (nicknamed Lemon Pie) kind of forgot the pack up his golden watch, a childhood heirloom of his. Because she kind of forgot, Bruce Willis' escape plan changes drastically as he attempts to retrieve the watch back from his apartment. And because of sheer luck, all Hell breaks loose ... simply for the watch. Butch kills Vincent Vega, a POV character in the movie (played by John Travolta), with Vincent's own gun. He was a clumsy hitman that was stupid enough to leave his gun in Butch's kitchen while he went to use the toilet. Quentyn Martell was stupid enough to try to steal a dragon and he got himself killed. Vincent's and Quentyn's own plans BACKFIRED on them, resulting in their deaths. Hell, both of them kind of look alike too: https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Quentyn_Martell_by_henning.jpg https://pulpfiction.fandom.com/wiki/Vincent_Vega Anyways, the point is that a small small small innocent childhood heirloom was simply forgotten, resulting in a drastic change of a plan. If Lemon Pie didn't forget Butch's watch ... Vincent Vega would still be alive, a random lady would not be shot for being a good samaritan, the crime-boss would not have been anal raped, a pawn-shop keeper would not be killed by his own samurai sword, Zed's not dead baby! and Butch would live a life running away from the crime-boss he betrayed. Perhaps if Doran told Quentyn about the Oberyn's lemon tree and not hide it in his ass, Dany wouldn't have questioned the authenticity of the marriage pact. If Quentyn mentions "Lemon Tree" nonchalantly to Daenerys, her little heart would skip a beat like it did when she heard Willem Darry's name ... perhaps changing the story line completely. Who knows ... its up for debate. Well Quentyn's dead, and Dany's destined to meet Doran. I wonder how that conversation would go: Doran: Queen Daenerys, welcome to Dorne! We have been waiting for the Targaryen restoration for many years now. Dany: Many years? You have been loyal for that long? How do I know that is true? Doran: My brother Oberyn signed a marriage pact between our families many years ago in Braavos, with Ser Willem Darry. Dany: Oh yes, Quentyn mentioned the marriage pact, but it could still be fake. Doran: It is real, Oberyn even brought a Dornish lemon tree as a gift to show your family that we were still loyalists. Dany: Sheeeeettttt Dornishman, that is all you had to say! Oh my sweet lemon tree ... you are not lying. No one could have known about that lemon tree. I believe you now. Doran: Thank you my Queen. Speaking of Quentyn, where is he? Dany: I am quite mad at him. He died stealing my dragons. Perhaps if you told him about the lemon tree earlier, I would have offered him a dragon to ride later as a gift for Dorne's loyalty. Doran: Oh no! My son, dead? ... did you bring back his body? Dany: When I pulled up my ships to spear-head my invasion of Westeros at Sunspear, did you notice any of my ships carrying a banner that said "dead Dornishman storage"? Doran: No... Dany: You know why it isn't there? Because storing dead Dornishmen ain't none of my business! That's why! Okay ... that is it ... that is all what Easy Peasy Lemon Squeezy is. Now for the Bonus Tarantino Theories ... The Deadly Sand Snakes Assassination Squad - Kill Bill Vol 1. 2003 & Vol. 2 2004 https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Sand_snakes_by_enife.jpg Elle Driver, California Mountain Snake = Tyene Sand https://killbill.fandom.com/wiki/Elle_Driver https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Drazenka_Kimpel_TSand.png Poisoners ... seriously George, just give Tyene an eye patch already. O-Ren Ishii, Cottonmouth = O-bara Sand https://killbill.fandom.com/wiki/O-Ren_Ishii https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:AUobarasand.png Even though they do not look alike, they have the same personality. Both are known warriors and are unafraid of an open public war. The other ladies do things behind the scene. Also Mercy = O-Ren Ishii's background story Sofie Fatale = Nymeria Sand https://killbill.fandom.com/wiki/Sofie_Fatale https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Nymeria_Sand_by_hardcoremiike.jpg She doesn't use weapons or fight in Kill Bill. And GRRM does say this about Nymeria: Nymeria was least dangerous when nearly naked. Elsewise she was sure to have a dozen blades concealed about her person {The Watcher ADWD} Vernita Green, Copperhead = Sarella Sand https://killbill.fandom.com/wiki/Vernita_Green https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Sarella_Sand_by_Rae_Lavergne.jpg Vernita, an ex-assassin, has adopted the civilian life ... while the other ladies are still playing their dangerous games. Sarella is not playing Obara, Tyene and Nymeria's game of thrones .... or at least not that we know of. Also the Summer Islands skin. I haven't seen Jackie Brown by Quentin Tarantino yet, perhaps I am missing some stuff for Sarella/Alleras. Let me know in the comments! Gogo Yubari = Dorea Sand https://killbill.fandom.com/wiki/Gogo_Yubari https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Dorea_Sand_by_Joshua_Cairos.jpg Little girls, balls & chains. Dorea bashing at bloody oranges. Gogo trying bash at a lemon-colored-suit-wearing Uma Thurman! Bill, Snake Charmer = Doran Martell https://killbill.fandom.com/wiki/Bill https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Tommy_Arnold_DoranMartell.jpg I don't need to explain this one about these leaders/master-planners. Bud, Sidewinder = Oberyn Martell, the Red Viper of Dorne https://killbill.fandom.com/wiki/Budd https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/File:Oberyn_martell_by_bellabergolts.jpg This one is just for fun since they are younger brothers to Bill and Doran. They are two awesome characters anyways. I love Quentin Tarantino soundtracks. I can see Quentyn, our frog prince, dancing with dragons to this song: Silly ribbit, Trix are for ... Arianne's Snitch and the Bloody Oranges - Reservoir Dogs 1992 The moon had crowned the Moonmaid as they set out from the dust-dry ruins of Shandystone, striking south and west. Arianne and Ser Arys took the lead, with Myrcella on a frisky mare between them. Garin followed close behind with Spotted Sylva, whilst her two Dornish knights took the rear. We are seven, Arianne realized as they rode. She had not thought of that before, but it seemed a good omen for their cause. Seven riders on their way to glory. One day the singers will make all of us immortal. {The Queenmaker AFFC} Wow look at them and their cool slow-motion group walk. So confident about their plan ... only to later fall apart, thanks to a snitch within the group. Anyways I cheated. I'll admit it. I used Reservoir Dogs to solve Arianne's snitch and worked backwards on the evidence. The girl was plainly growing tired, so Arianne called a halt. They watered the horses once again, rested for a bit, and had some cheese and fruit. Myrcella split an orange with Spotted Sylva, whilst Garin ate olives and spit the stones at Drey. I won't spoil the movie for those who haven't seen it, but it was the bloody oranges that gave it away. Now the book clues: Ripped oranges can be found in the Water Gardens where Areo Hotah and Doran Martell were earlier in AFFC. Who happened to have some oranges in Arianne's Queenmaking plan? Spotted Sylva This suggests that Sylva was in the Water Gardens with Doran and Areo. Sylva doesn't want Arianne's plan to succeed. As Ser Arys helped her from the saddle, Drey went to one knee before her. "Your Grace." "My lady liege." Spotted Sylva knelt beside him. "My queen, I am your man." Garin dropped to both knees. [...] [...] "And the riders," Spotted Sylva said. "Come, Your Grace, warm yourself. I should be honored if you'd let me serve you." Sylva doesn't address Myrcella as a queen initially, until later when she corrects herself. Why would Sylva be a snitch? Well she is a Santagar. Do we know any other Santagars? Aron Santagar, died in the King's Landing riots after Myrcella Baratheon was shipped to Dorne. Even the Santagar sigil has a leopard holding an axe. https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/House_Santagar leopard ~ cheetah = "cheater" axe = Areo's axe What is the relationship between Aron and Syvla? We don't know ... but would it be enough to conspire against Myrcella? For this theory, lets assume yes. Sylva disapproves of Arianne's plan and informs Doran Martell. Doran lets it play out ... and it's for an awesome reason ... the real Dornish Master Plan. Prince Doran took a jagged breath. "Dorne still has friends at court. Friends who tell us things we were not meant to know. {The Watcher ADWD} After Sylva snitched, what was her 'punishment'? She is betrothed to Lord Eldon of Estermont. Are the Estermonts one of Doran's friends at court? Do they hate the Lannisters too? Well Lord Eldon is Stannis' uncle or great uncle. But I guess we'll have to wait and see if they play a role or not. "Eldon Estermont has taken a wife fifty years his junior," [Cersei] said to Qyburn. "Why should that concern me?" He shrugged. "I do not say it should . . . but Daemon Sand and this Santagar girl were both close to Prince Doran's own daughter, Arianne, or so the Dornishmen would have us believe. Perhaps it means little or less, but I thought Your Grace should know." (Are you trying to tell us something George? Is this foreshadowing?) "Now I do." She was losing patience. "Do you have more [other news]?" {Cersei V AFFC} Besides, Lord Eldon is old and has established heirs. After he dies, Sylva is free to re-marry while she is still young. Sylva is not really punished that badly. Anyways Andrey Dalt and Garin the Orphan are not the snitches. They were sent to Essos as punishment for executing Arianne's plan. But was it really a punishment? The Martinesque Story ... no not George but Scorsese ... and no not really Scorsese either: After Arianne's failed queenmaking plan: Arys Oakheart is dead trying to play hero, not get imprisoned for his Kingsguard oath-breaking, or trying to impress Arianne ... blah blah blah ... who knows why he charged at Areo. Darkstar disappears after slicing Myrcella's face and ear Arianne, Doran's own daughter, is gently punished Sylva stays in Westeros Andrey is sent to Essos Garin is sent to Essos According to Doran, Sylva has proven herself to be a rat. She may be his rat, but in a way he cannot fully trust her. Doran uses Sylva in AFFC and will use her again in the future TWOW/ADOS schemes ... if she is needed. But he will keep Sylva in the dark about plans she doesn't need to know about. The goal of letting Arianne's plan play out is to filter out true Dornish loyalists ... Darkstar bails out, Arys is dead, Sylva snitched ... BUT Andrey and Garin followed through. Andrey and Garin have proven themselves to be trustworthy in executing plans on behalf of Dorne's interest. Doran sends them to Essos as Dornish spies to help facilitate Daenerys' invasion of Westeroes when the time comes. This kind of sounds like the plot of Martin Scorsese's The Departed 2006. Wait a minute, AFFC was in 2005, The Departed was 2006. It doesn't make sense! Well The Departed was based on the Hong Kong movie Infernal Affairs 2002. The characters played by actors Andy Lau and Gordon Lam are Triad gang-members, sent to infiltrate the Hong Kong police force as official full-time police officers. They may be behind the names Andrey and Garin the Orphan, our future Dornish secret agents in Essos. Doran, what a joker ... letting Arianne execute her plan for days, even after Sylva ratted them out. Stuck in the middle is Darkstar - Reservoir Dogs 1992 What can I say? The most dangerous man in Dorne, stuck in middle of the two: Arianne Martell and the Queenmakers Areo Hotah and Doran Martell's men Gerold Dayne ... what were you thinking? And why did you slice Myrcella's face and ear off? Perhaps Mr. Blonde can explain: And what happened Myrcella's ear afterwards? Was it thrown away? Did they keep it? Did anyone hear anything? Did you hear anything Myrcella? Anyways, that is one catchy song at the 3:01 mark isn't it? The song is called Stuck In the Middle With You by Stealer Wheels. The vocals you are hearing is sang by Gerald "Gerry" Rafferty ... what a perfect anthem for Gerold "Darkstar" Dayne's situation! Gerald Darkstar singing: Well I don't know why I came here tonight, I got the feeling that something ain't right, I'm so scared in case I fall off my mare, And I'm wondering how I'll get away from here, Arianne's clowns to the left of me, Doran's jokers to the right, here I am, Stuck in the middle with Myrcella Yes I'm stuck in the middle with you, And I'm wondering what it is I should do, It's so hard to keep this smile on my face, Losing control, yeah, I'm all over the place, Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, Here I am, stuck in the middle with you Well I started out with nothing, And I'm proud that I'm a self made Dayne, And your friends, they all come laughing, Slap you on the back and say, Please .... Gerold, you are NOT Arthur! ... please! "My House goes back ten thousand years, unto the dawn of days," [Darkstar] complained. "Why is it that my cousin [Arthur] is the only Dayne that anyone remembers?" {The Queenmaker AFFC} Also don't worry about the police officer in that torture scene, that is not actual gasoline that Mr. Blonde is pouring on the cop. It is only a movie! Its probably just drinking water. The Interchangeable Basterds - Inglourious Basterds 2009 Ser Archibald Yronwood is British Intelligence Secret Agent Lt. Archibald "Archie" Hicox, but his physical description is a bald version of the Basterd's Bear Jew. "Archibald" is a funny one GRRM created: an big bald American Jew mixed with a German-speaking Brit. So what else did GRRM mix up? Ser William WELLs is Cpl. WilhELm Wicki, but the freckles and crooked teeth are probably British General Ed Fenech's, played by actor Mike Myers (Austin Powers!). Ser cLETUS Yronwood sounds like Sgt. Hugo StigLITZ, but Cletus has Wilhelm Wicki's lazy eye, played by actor Gedeon Burkhard. https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0121972/mediaviewer/rm4257384704 Cpl. Wilhelm Wicki ... Lt. Archibald Hicox ... Sgt. Hugo Stiglitz ... hiding their identities, pretending to be German soldiers. William ... Archibald ... Cletus ... hiding their Dornish identities in Essos, even hiding it to their deaths. You guys had enough of Tarantino for one read? Eh, I'll throw in one more for fun. Undesirable Aliases - Reservoir Dogs 1992 In Dorne Quentyn Martell had been a prince, in Volantis a merchant's man, but on the shores of Slaver's Bay he was only Frog, squire to the big bald Dornish knight the sellswords called Greenguts. The men of the Windblown used what names they would, and changed them at a whim. They'd fastened Frog on him because he hopped so fast when the big man shouted a command. Even the commander of the Windblown kept his true name to himself. Some free companies had been born during the century of blood and chaos that had followed the Doom of Valyria. Others had been formed yesterday and would be gone upon the morrow. The Windblown went back thirty years, and had known but one commander, the soft-spoken, sad-eyed Pentoshi nobleman called the Tattered Prince. His hair and mail were silver-grey, but his ragged cloak was made of twists of cloth of many colors, blue and grey and purple, red and gold and green, magenta and vermilion and cerulean, all faded by the sun. {The Windblown ADWD} One of my favorite screens in the movie. Why am I Mr. Pink? I hope you guys enjoyed my post! So which lemon tree theory will you choose now? We have Lemongate Extremists: Dany was raised in Dorne ...... Easy Peasy Lemon Squeezy: Braavosi Lemon Tree was a gift from Dorne ...... or Lemon Tree Conservatives: Braavosi Lemon Tree has no futuristic value and we insult Lemongaters all day! Well I got clowns to the left of me, jokers to right ... but here I am with this middle ground theory for you!
  22. kissdbyfire

    The Red Wedding Was Justified.

    How do you reckon? Care to back that up w/ a few quotes?
  23. The Anti-Targ

    UK Politics: A Partly Political Broadcast

    Enough for an almost 100 seat swing from 2017? Seems highly unlikely. The other thing that beggars belief is that no-deal is still remotely on the cards even though it's clear a majority of the people don't want it and a majority of parliament don't want it and it has voted that way on more than one occasion. I guess there isn;t a majority in parliament willing to pass a "if it looks like the UK will crash out without a deal this Bill will automatically trigger a revocation of Art 50" kind of Bill. But really, any MP determined to prevent no-deal Brexit should be looking for that sort of solution to prevent a no-deal for good and all. But I think too few MPs are actually that determined to prevent a no-deal and they would rather have a no-deal than to appear to be attempting remain by stealth and facing the accusation of going against the ill-gotten 2016 referendum result.
  24. Nagini's Neville

    Why did the Freys torture Cat before her death, but not Robb?

    Oh my god!! I just had to laugh so hard reading you self- made Catelyn "quote"! That's hilarious! Sadly most ppl won't understand it. Nice to come across a dedicated Catelyn Fan
  25. Chaircat Meow

    UK Politics: A Partly Political Broadcast

    I believe the the indicate vote passed, technically, but was rendered nugatory by the Lewtin amendment. I think Bercow will rightly block this.
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