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  2. Hodor's Dragon

    Independent North

    Well Bronn has to go, the sooner the better, but Tyrion, Davos and Sam is as good a start go a Grand Council as you can find in this story.
  3. Notice how it's all the really gifted, really experienced actors complaining and criticizing...
  4. Techmaester

    [Poll] How would you rate episode 806?

    A strong, 'ai dunt wunt eht' out of 10.
  5. Ser Lepus

    Independent North

    In the books there are plotlines that could end with Sansa ruling the Vale and Rickon ruling the North... add the support of Asha and Theon, of Edmure and of a legitimized Edric Storm (who owes his life to Davos) as lord of Storm's End, and Bran would gather enough support to claim the throne if Jon names him heir... I suspect D&D made Sansa queen of the North because they couldn't use the original plot, so they went for the closest thing they could achieve...
  6. HelenaExMachina

    UK Politics: The End of May

    Its a sad sad state of affairs “we’re in, that has led to this ominous wedding.” where Hunt is the slightly less obnoxious one
  7. HeadlessHenchman

    People's reaction to Dany turning Mad Queen says something about us as humans

    Long time book and series fan, first time poster. So please accept my apologies if I break forum ethos right off the bat. I think there is one interesting justification for Dany's actions that was hinted at in season 8 but wasn't explored (which gives hope that it might be a George thing that D & D didn't want to skip entirely). I've not seen it addressed anywhere, really. Not even in the excellent article linked above. Both Dany And Grey Worm state clearly that they consider the people and soldiers of King's Landing to be free. Coming from genuine sold-and-shackled slave backgrounds this is understandable. Westeros oppression is more subtle. Now, if we assume for a second that Dany's genuine ambition is indeed to "break the wheel" and rid the world of oppression, she needs the backing of the oppressed. History has taught us that the only way for freedom and change to stick is if the those who are being liberated are actively engaged in their own liberation. Only when the oppressed are able to free themselves (when given the opportunity) will that freedom last. This is what the unsullied did. For example. They got the opportunity and they took it. The people of King's Landing, seen in this light, are part of the problem. They are not innocent because they are not shackled. They can rise up and topple this feudalistic system that reduces most of them to pawns in an eternal game of power among the lords. Yet they don't. Even when the opportunity arises when a friendly(from Dany's POV) force arrives to back them up. Dany says that she's doing what's she's doing for the sake of generations to come. She's playing the looooong game. To do that, she has to change the mentality of the small folk. Given what she's seeing, due to this oppression related culture clash between Essos and Westeros, "just" taking out Cersei is pointless. Winning the iron throne is pointless if all the peasants beggars and lord-serving nobodies she wants to help aren't in on it. If all they will be looking for is another hand to feed from, she made all her sacrifices for nothing. So she makes a statement. Rise up out of the gutters and fight or become an example for others so that they will. Rule through fear for the betterment of all. It's an insane burden to carry, but it's a play that can potentially work. Sure, the above doesn't justify firebombing children and maybe, the way the show set everything up, Dany had to die. But I don't think she deserved the full Hitler treatment. She tried something. She wanted to achieve something glorious and wonderful. Did she lose her way a bit? Yes. Did she misstep? Yes. But she deserved a legacy for what she did right and what she tried to do right. This was my second biggest issue with the how the series wrapped up. She and her earned legacy was tossed upon the scrap heap of history while the lords and ladies of Winterfell carried on, pretending something had actually changed. Way too cynical in a world that is way too cynical already. Thanks for reading this. Shows and book series like GoT AsoIaF are amazing. I was so messed up by some of the choices D&D made I had to start writing continuation fan fiction as therapy! :-) /HH
  8. King Jon Snow Stark

    Tyrion and Sansa...

    Nah she will have a secret bastard by Jon Snow who Sansa will legitimized as a Stark.
  9. Lord Varys

    Why Did the Show Turn on Jon?

    Sure, that was murder, even more so within the framework of this society - where it is completely up to the whim of the monarch/victor whether her enemies are granted pardons or not (which means nobody even has the right to criticize the monarch or demand that she spare the lives of people in her power - they can advise, but they cannot demand). Dany wasn't threatening Jon personally, and she was unsuspecting. It was actually a very insidious murder, on par with Joffrey's poisoning. Perhaps it could be if we knew why it was done. But that is never properly established. The impression we get implies it is done because of fantasy threats to Arya and Sansa - not even to avenge all the poor dead Kingslanders the Northmen gladly helped to butcher and rape. Even their crappy dialogue did nothing to establish that. It is part of being a monarch to decide what's best for everyone and not listening to the voices of the governed. If it wasn't, there wouldn't be a monarchy in this world. Trying to sell us the idea that thinking you, as monarch, know everything best is wrong is ridiculous in light of this show which basically was 8 seasons of people celebrating monarchy and the glory of crowns. I mean, was there ever any monarch who ruled by committee? Or by asking the people they exploited for permission to do so? I don't recall any such thing. And if Jon so desperately wants to save Sansa and Arya from a, possibly, non-existing threat - why not smack some sense into them? Why not force them to leave Westeros like Ned wanted Cersei to leave Westeros back when he found out about her and Jaime (Arya would run away 20 minutes later anyway ;-))? Why not show them their place - after all, he, Jon Snow, was the King in the North and they were beholden to him, not the other way around? This is all just crap, really.
  10. Mimessa

    The Pact of Versailles

    (Whispering: wot does SSM mean?)
  11. I think the summarily performed execution without any sort of trial or recourse is itself the missing piece of the jigsaw which makes sense given her later actions and particularly her speech to Jon about only her having a say in the new world she intended to create. Daeny has a mindset that whatever she does is good and right therefore anyone who stands against her is automatically wrong by default. She doesn’t entertain any notion of doubt in this self-justifying narrative and she has the final say in what is good or bad so why bother with a trial by combat which could only offer doubt in this regards. Basically, why bother with a trial by combat to determine guilt if she herself has already determined who is guilty based on the notion that all who oppose her are automatically guilty as only she knows what is good or bad.
  12. King Jon Snow Stark

    Why Did the Show Turn on Jon?

    Definitely murder. That’s why Jaime needed a pardon and Jon was sent to the NW. Monarchslaying doesn’t get a pass.
  13. I realized how badly I have been duped by the author. People mostly blame DnD for this mess, but I genuinely think that much of the blame lies with GRRM. Yes, DnD are hacks that butchered the execution, but I ask the question if the story ideas they had been given to adapt were all that great to begin with. If we take on face value that the ending of the main characters remains the same, then we have to deal with KING BRAN and JON KILLS DANY WTF ending. First, KING BRAN. For the life of me, I cannot imagine how GRRM intends to write a satisfying conclusion with Bran as the final ruler. Bran is: 1, disabled (I don't care, but Westerosi society does), 2, a child (at the time of ADwD he's like 10 at most, isn't he? how old he can be by the end of it all? 13?), 3, in the cave in the middle of nowhere, 4, so far he's had no learning-to-lead arc (aside of the couple of chapters in ACoK when he's "the Stark in Winterfell", but that hardly counts as actual experience either in governing or leadership), 5, he has no claim to 5 of the Southron kingdoms. I fail to envision how the hell does the author mean to get to this endgame in a convincing manner?! He'd have a hard time of it if he were planning on writing another 10 books, not to mention 2! It's clear as day that he has completely lost control of his story. I see only three options, none of them easy to make believable: 1, Bran will learn the ability to skinchange or mind-manipulate people, and he will make them to choose him for their king somehow.... and then mindwipe them completely to keep them complacent with his rule for their entire lives. It is true that GRRM loves his body-snatcher stories. but the problem is that what works in short fiction horror stories may not work oh-so-well in a fantasy epic such as ASoIaF. As I see it, this idea just doesn't fit the rest of the story. 2, Bran's skills are instrumental in the Long Night and he demonstrates it publicly enough to make masses believe he's the avatar of the old gods and that they are the right gods to follow, which results in their overcoming their disgust and distrust towards wargs and magicians to accept Bran as the God-Emperor of Dune. I... guess that's a possible outcome, but, again, almost impossibly difficult to pull off convincingly. I can't quite imagine that many nobles (or commoners) would be comfortable with the idea of an omnipotent superwarg that can spy on them all the time, who can see into past, who can enter and manipulate their dreams etc. Even if they're not aware of the full extent of his powers, they would try to kill the creepy boy as soon as possible. However, what bothers me even more is... what the hell happened to GRRM's proclaimed intention to explore what makes a wise and just ruler? Will we ever see Bran to deal with taxation? As of ADwD, he hasn't been in the position to learn or show any leadership qualities, and I presume that he won't get down to it in TWoW either. Are we just going have to assume that Bloodraven will give him necessary theoretical education and Bran then pops out of nowhere in the final book to put all the tried leaders to shame? I mean, that's exactly what Varys has been trying to do with the Young Griff, but most readers don't buy it will work. Unless we see him learning by experience, how can we be sure that he will make the right decisions when put under pressure? I guess he would be able to google the weirwoodnet to watch what others have been saying/doing, which might be some help in decision-making. So, that's the answer GRRM gives his readership regarding wise and just kingship? No one's good enough unless they are an omniscient bodysnatcher? Oh WOW, how deep (/sarcasm). It's cheating. Bran wouldn't be either particularly wise or just, he'd only have excellent means to spy at other people and it wouldn't guarantee he would be able to act accordingly on the gained information. As the Hand of the King, Bloodraven had a similar spy network, but people still loathed him and schemed against Aerys I. By the end of the story, Bran's got to have gone through leadership experience much like Jon or Dany to make his kingship satisfying. Otherwise he's no better that Aragorn, who rules justly and wisely just because. But I don't see where GRRM wants to find time for it. And now... MAD QUEEN DANY and JON KILLS DANY. Or better said, Dany's story as a whole. If her show ending is anything to go by, it's shaping to become of the most nihilistic and depressing characters arcs that I have ever read. I've always had issues with GRRM's portrayal of women wielding political power. Let's overview major female characters with political power so far: Catelyn - in the beginning utterly breaks down due to Bran's coma. She couldn't possibly care less about being a regent appointed by her husband. She snaps out of it only after her son talks some sense into her. Her second breakdown is much slower, but it is also caused by grief and fear for her children's lives. Seeing her last child murdered, she goes insane and starts tearing her own face. Then she return as a zombie hellbent on a terrible vengeance. Lysa - the lady regent of the Vale of Arryn - her loveless marriage and repeated miscarriages had riven her to become unstable, treacherous and petty. Ends up murdered by the man she had loved her entire life and who had only used her in return. Cersei - a malignant narcissist with growing paranoid tendencies that gets turned on by watching stuff burn. She's growing more unstable as she's losing her children, although it is debatable if she values the children or the power they represent. Prophecied to be killed by the valoquar, presumably her brother/lover Jaime. In his fake his history, there's one more female ruler described in a greater detail: Rhaenyra. The Realm's Delight (ugh) that turns into Maegor with Teats (eww). She's also a member of GRRM's club of women that start making questionable decisions as they start losing their kids. Although she had been her father's chosen heir, the historians consider her a false queen and not even her sons bother to rehabilitate her reputation. I am definitely seeing a theme there. Compare all these female characters to Davos, who has already lost most of his sons. It speaks for itself. Speaking of historical Targaryen women... what was the point of that tematic thread of their getting shafted in favor of their male counterparts? First there's Alysanne fighting for equal primogeniture for the sake of her daughter Daenerys (I guess that GRRM was trolling us with the whole "Daenerys will make a great queen!" thing) and later for her granddaughter Rhaenys the Queen who Never Was. Rhaenyra. Daena the Defiant gets passed over. There's some 150 years in which Targaryen women are treated little better than broodmares... .... until here comes Daenerys Stormborn, the last scion of House Targaryen, surely she's going to make up for it, surely she's going to show that Westeros thar a woman can be brave, strong and clever enough to act as a queen regnant? She doesn't have to rule as long as Elizabeth II, but only as long as to help Westeros get through the Long Night? Well, unfortunately it appears that Daenerys isn't there to vindicate all the unfairly shafted female claimants. Apparently, she's there to confirm that women on the Iron Throne are Not Meant To Be. From what can be gleaned from the show, she will get shafted in favor of a male relative (this time a fake one, to add insult to the injury, because in the books it isn't going to be Jon Snow, but the Young Griff). That's not the truly unpleasant part. What took me unpleasantly by surprise is that she will never get to raise above her darker side. For the start let me say that I've always deeply identified with Dany's character. She's a feminine girl who wants to change world for the better. She's also a young abuse victim in the men's world, she has no protectors and no mentors. Her family has got history of mental illness, but she hopes to avoid that fate. Yes, she's got no experience, so she makes mistakes. Yes, it's true that she has a temper. Yes. it's true she can be ruthless. She hypes herself up. And I thought Martin understood that. In one of D&E stories, the character of Rohanne Webber explains how a woman in this world has got to be twice as decisive and aggressive as any man if she wants to be taken seriously at all. Well, ain't that twice the truth for Dany, for someone who set out to bring a great societal change in Slaver's Bay, for someone who aspires to become Queen? I thought that for a time she will get a little too comfortable with the darker aspects of her character, but ultimately overcome it and find peace. I also thought that she will find what she missed the most in Jon Snow. She's always believed herself to be the last Targaryen, all alone in the world. OTOH Jon could have discovered the other side of his heritage, the one that has been kept from him, although he think it's only the confirmation that his mother sold sex. But what do we get instead of that? Apparently, he kills her because she's too brutal, too unhinged, too cray cray. It could have been so beautiful, but instead the author decided that nothing good will come out of it. Tell me that is not nihilistic. Yeah, a heroic man has to kill an ambitious, powerful woman to save the world/bring balance to the Force. WOW how original and subversive! Compare that to guys such as Tyrion, who can fall as low as they wish. Tyrion gets to make singers into stew, knowingly support an illegitimate and horrible king, pull stuff like the antler men or wildfire, threaten with rape and actually rape enslaved women etc. etc. But he gets to survive, live in luxury, and exercise power as the Hand of the King. How sweet to be a man, how sweet. And of course, Jon survives as well, although he's a revenant. Dany gets to be killed by her last family and boyfriend in one person. In ADwD Tyrion says something along the lines that life no matter how miserable is full of possibilities, while death is so sadly final. After I found out about the show's ending, I took out my old copy of AGoT and flipped through it. There's no question that at the start of the series Dany's life sucked most out of all the major characters. Yes, Jon was a sort of an outsider, but his adoptive father and siblings loved him. Yes, Tyrion was terribly abused by his father and sister, but his brother loved him and the extended family accepted him. What did Dany have? A brother that kept pinching her nipples and calling her a whore? Fear of being killed in her bed by assassins? Uncertainty as to how she will survive with no income and no skills? I keep wondering what was the point of her story? If it.s that power corrupts and the road to hell is paved with good intentions, then he truly couldn't have picked a better character to demonstrate it? How many female characters are out there that aren't tomboys, but lead armies, wield great political power, have ambitions and aspirations beyond protecting their family, who dare to have sex without falling in love, who have a darker streak, butbut still retain empathy for the downtrodden? Sadly, there isn't so many of them. Dany used to be one of the bunch, before she had been made into another unreasonle, ambitious, evil Morgana just like so many female characters before her. She's gone from a unique grey character straight to a tired misogynistic trope. Martin should perhaps take a couple of lessons from Sapkowski. Sapkowski's The Witcher may not offer as complex worldbuilding and plotlines, but at least he finished it with a believable, yet bittersweet and unexpected conclusion. His female characters wield hold immense power as queens and sorceresses, they can be ruthless and manipulate and display any number of other bad qualities, but the narrative doesn't judge them for it any harsher than their male colleagues, and none of them becomes unhinged because she lost her kids or power got into her head. That's not to say that those books don't have flaws (for one, the portrayal of male homosexuality is.... lacking), but at least Sapkowski has managed to give his creation a satisfying ending. So, instead of the neverending waiting for ASoIaF, I'm going to look for more stories like The Witcher. Martin can go eat rust. (Yes, I created an account on this site only to make this rant, and yes, it made me feel much better.)
  14. Old gods, I just pictured the faces as you laughed and choked and laughed some more.
  15. Techmaester

    If there was season 9...

    I'm assuming a little bit of a time skip.... It begins with a group of Valyrians setting foot on Westeros.(We argue they were from a disconnected outpost that was separated during the fall). Where it goes I don't know, I would bring Dany back in some way and again make her a thankless heroine(guess I am going KOTOR plot). Not sure if she would forgive or burn Jon but ultimately they would meet again and he gets a chance at redemption. I would definitely have Tyrion roasted though(assuming he isn't already dead from the future wars in the kingdom following the rebellion against Brans control).
  16. Well, those were the good ol days. You probably remember this... I do, and it HURTS. Right before or early on during series 1 David and Dan pled with the book fans to keep a tight lid on spoilers (Ned’s death). And after the scene aired and people went mad on the tinternet, David and Dan thanked book fans for being awesome and not spoiling anything for shownlies. That was the honeymoon. Then we had series 2 and 3 and book “purists” started to moan... but RED WEDDING! So kewl, and by that time the show runners felt emboldened enough and confident enough to do things that were... well, stupid. Jaime and Cersei in the sept, Brienne v Hound fight. Arya arriving at the Gates of the Moon and saying, “I’m Arya Stark”, and no one gave two fucks. And downhill it went, picking up speed the further it diverged. As to hating the show’s version of the RW... I did. But by then I couldn’t t take that stupidity seriously. Robb taking pregnant ”Talisa” ( ) to the Twins after breaking the marriage pact w/ the Freys? Soooooo stupid, and such obvious emotional manipulation of the audience... on top of being the exact opposite of what Robb did in the books. But... “yeah, let’s stabb the foetus in utero, so SHOCKING”. Yikes. I remember my Unsullied husband was horrified beyond words... and I’m not sure which horrified him most, the foetus being stabbed in the belly, or me fucking laughing my arse off. Anyhoo... I seem to have gone on a side rant here, apologies.
  17. Apoplexy

    The Book of The Kingsguard - Help Me Decide

    How? Please explain as I have no idea what you are talking about. Jaime's redemption arc was about him becoming a better person, as flawed as he was, not just about him flinging Bran out a window. Calling Jaime anti social would be a stretch. Brienne following Jaime would not make any sense, even by standards as low as season 8. Jaime did not expect her to follow either. You are going to have to explain because I do not understand, at all.
  18. It_spelt_Magalhaes

    Why Did the Show Turn on Jon?

    It might be justifiable. But it is still murder. Unless you're going straight to the criminal law definition as per the link? Even an accidental or self defense killing still adds up to the act of murder. As in person A sticks person B with the pointy end. Sorry, it was low hanging fruit.
  19. JEORDHl

    What binds people together (?)

    Shush, you. Fucking retweeting yourself lol
  20. Gerg Sknab

    Is Rickon going to be King/the next warden?

    Rickon, Shagy, Oesha and Davos will wash ashore at Sisterton where the true Jon Snow will collect them travel to the Tourney at the gate of the moon only to find Alayne/Sansa has been abduct by the Mad Mouse and his cohorts. Rickon will demand the crew chase the miscredents to Runestone and beyond the chase end the port of Maidenpool where not only Alayne/Sansa is found but also Arya off the newly arrived Merlin King. The Mouse and his confederates then are on the run to Quiet Isle with the Stark revenge brigade close behind. The Gravedigger is on hand to reunite with Alayne/Sansa and Arya while Rickon is pleases as punch to go with his older brother Jon (Stark) accompanied by ShaggyDog and in addition Nymeria who wanted her person Neat fairey tale ,eh?
  21. Syl of Syl

    dragonriding ability

    How and why? Who was the person in Lys claiming to be Saera then? And what about Otto Hightower's wife? She would have to be a party to this conspiracy. And to what purpose? I don't know who Preston is. I am not aware of what you are talking about or I certainly would have responded to it or perhaps not felt the need to make this post at all. Perhaps you could provide a link? I'd be interested in reading what you are referencing.
  22. CrypticWeirwood

    Why Did the Show Turn on Jon?

    Jon certainly killed Dany, but are you sure it was really murder? Those aren't the same thing.
  23. Tywin et al.

    What binds people together (?)

    For the love of god, the correct answer has already been given: Heathens!
  24. Darth Richard II

    Game of Thrones spin off series ideas

    Yeah unless Williams has one huge change of heart or somehow ends up broke the chances of an Arya spin off are currently at 0 percent.
  25. Nightwish

    Jon killing Dany doesn’t work for me

    I agree, Sansa just wanted to be Queen in the North, it never came well to her that the Northerners had given Jon the throne, so creating a conflict between Jon and Dany was her great opportunity to actually get rid of both; As it happened. And Bran was supposed to be neutral and even said to Tyrion he had no interest in ruling Winterfell. Well Tyrion was asking the wrong question, he should have questioned him about the throne of Westeros. “Ah for that, I have packed my things and promised Sansa the North so when do we leave?”
  26. JEORDHl

    What binds people together (?)

    Mmn. I'd argue much, much older than that. I mean, in-group vs out-group distinction is pretty much the core tenet of complex adaptive systems, the organization of matter across more or less every scale, since like... hell, as far back as humanity can speculate. It's transactional. An economy. Perhaps at the heart of all that binds us, or anything maybe, is the *desire for more than what one can individually have, or do, or be. *yes, I'm aware that's an anthropomorphism, but you know what I mean
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