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  2. The Coconut God

    Master thread on what the Show means for the book plot

    But why must we have this convoluted mess... Stannis losing, surviving, running away to the wall, somehow growing mad enough to burn Shireen instead of running off to Braavos to get more sellswords... all for the sake of the boring ass Ramsay vs Jon side story? I don't get it. It's just bad. The story flows smoother, is more satisfying, and serves the characters better thematically if Stannis retakes Winterfell, finally loses his skepticism about his higher destiny and makes the supreme sacrifice for the sake of the realm, only to be crushed by reality in the most tragic way. It doesn't matter what you and Martin call him, what matters is how he is seen by his potential followers. Fire wight or not, Beric's resurrections were enough to convert a lot of people down in the south. The crucial difference between them and the ice zombies (at least the ones the Others use) is that they can pass off as real people.
  3. RFL

    Edmure Should Have Got It

    Edmure sat down and shut up when told. What about him screams leadership to anyone? See Tyrions reaction to being told to shut up?
  4. But WHY invade the north? Assume you make it past Moat Cailin from the south, past Howland Reed and the rest in the marshes, assume the Nights Watch does not interfere, and that whatever Stark blood is left doesn't warg into fantastical creatures and destroy you what have you gained? Even Stannis was not familiar with all the small time Lords in the North and had to have Jon help show him where they were to try to recruit. Bear Island was not able to give Mormont's wife, from the south, the life she wanted and Mormont had to attempt slave trading (and be banished) for it. Assume you take the north. Who wants it? How do you keep it? What have you gained? The north remembers and while a foreign lord may hold it for a short time it will rise up again.
  5. St Daga

    Heresy 221 and the Children of Winterfell

    I am just catching up, so I'm sorry if his was already addressed, but Baristan tells us that Ashara has "long dark hair" but it never states if that hair is brown or black. I suppose it could even be a very dark red. I think it's possible her hair is black, which actually fit's with what we know of Darkstar, who also has some black in his hair. I am not trying to derail your theory, but does Edric's age match Ned's trip to Starfall? That happened 14-15 years before and Edric admits to being twelve. I guess he could be mislead about his own age, but Arya's guess on his age is that he is younger, not older. I think at this point in the story, Sansa is 13, which means she is older than Edric Dayne. Ned had to father Sansa after he returned to Catelyn after the war, so I don't see how he could have fathered Edric on Ashara after this. It would have had to be before and Edric would have to be older than Sansa, but younger than Jon or Robb. * That is interesting. This is a theory I have not heard of. She certainly talks about her son but seems to want to keep him away from court and Cersei. If this boy looked like Robert, it would certainly be noticed by Cersei! And other's. Do you have a link to this theory? This reminds me of that line about Ned telling Robert that Robert had the better claim to the throne, which leads me to believe that Ned also had a blood claim to the throne, just not as strong as Robert's. I think there is something hidden within the Stark lineage that will be a big reveal. Aegon would be Elia's son, which perhaps makes the link to the Rhoynar make sense.
  6. Demetri

    GRRM's (Brief) Thoughts on the Final Episode

    The larger points, in my mind, are: 1) GRRM straight up confirmed Jon's parentage. We know he doesn't lie to try to throw us off the trail, though he might try to distract or confused. To me, this is an unprecedented amount of candor. It wasn't so long ago that GRRM wouldn't even discuss the books at a show event so as not to provide spoilers. All history indicates that he views spoilers with disdain and ire. And yet he is confirming a spoiler for book readers by confirming a plot point in the show. In my opinion, it isn't as much about the actual reveal itself as it is the mindset surrounding it. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've never seen him VOLUNTEER a spoiler explicitly (no inference necessary.) I'm somewhat curious if this is a mindset change and if so, why? This reveal was way out of character for him. When the Aegon issue is juxtaposed with Jon's parentage, it makes it seem like he's stating Aegon VI as legitimate because Jon's parentage was stated just as matter-of-factly as Aegon VI was. I did omit the Aegon quote accidentally (my bad and thank you to the person who supplied it!) But to me that sounds more like the doublespeak of GRRM that I'm used to as there remains some ambiguity regarding what it means to be a character called Aegon VI. This contrasts with the Jon reveal which was stated unequivocally. We know GRRM likes to portray the opinions/deeds of others as fact, it's part of his writing, so someone recognizing Aegon or even Aegon recognizing himself could warrant calling him Aegon VI. That's certainly going to be the name signing the letters sent across the realm. 2) I'm with you on the "will we get the book" thing and it bothers me. As a result, I tend to be a bit optimistic and naive when GRRM says he's writing. That optimism drives me to perceive a mindset change represented in that post. My take (again, optimistic) is that he wants to explain why the number of daughters O'Hara had actually matters and he wants to explain that desperately. I'm not saying he'll be using the show as a counterpoint to undermine, but he knows that it's out there. 3) The story about the dinner with D&D and guessing Jon's mother is an old one. GRRM tells lots of old stories in blogs, interviews etc. Perhaps the story means something different to him now than it did at the onset of the show. I certainly hope so. I think the fact that he just straight up stated that Lyanna is Jon's mother is a form of accepting that there are some similarities and his willingness to accept that they exist. This inherently means that a "different" version exists in book form. My hope is that each time he mentions O'Hara he is reminded that unless he writes his version that we'll know exactly how many children O'Hara because we only have one version of the story: the show. Yes, I'm being very idealistic, but you have to admit that at least some things about this blog post are wildly different than things we've seen from him before.
  7. Lord Lannister

    Since we can't talk about the show on the other side...

    I really wish there's was a separate sub forum for book/show talk instead of just lumping it in with the show thread. You can probably draw some conclusions the way Wind will go from the show, yes. It's not a coincidence that the show had season 5 Stannis attacking Winterfell with an army of southerners and season 6 Jon attacking Winterfell with an army of wildlings and northmen and Dance ends and Winds begins with Stannis attacking Winterfell with an army of wildlings, southerners and northerners. D&D seem eager to assign other people's roles to certain characters to keep the relative. A prominent one being Sansa taking Jeyne's role as Ramsay's wife. I'm willing to guess a lot of that happened in the final two seasons. (F)Aegon's role seems to be merged into Dany and Cersei's roles a bit for example. So many threads split from threads it's hard to speculate how different and tangled the web gets taking another road to the same ending.
  8. True true. But you could try to get yiur nephew or cousin after you die.
  9. Ghost+Nymeria4Eva

    GoT and Feminism: What Happens Now?

    @Demetri Your so-called arguments have devolved into a nonsensical rant not worth responding. You made a dumb mistake real law students don't typically make, but really just man up, admit your mistake, and move on. Stop doubling down on your error like some third-rate politician. I feel sorry for you at this point. Everyone is here to offer something about ASOIAF. Not everyone says smart things, of course, but don't be a total d-bag and ruin the thread. I honestly don't even remember the original point you were trying to make. Either stick to the point of the thread or get off.
  10. Great theory! also could the deep ones have controlled krakens or something, as in a meeting of the small council Varys says an Ibbenese whaler was sunk by a kraken. If the Fishy People controlled Krakens that could be a sign they are rising again.
  11. Erkan12

    Edmure Should Have Got It

    That's exactly that means according to Blackfish. They know nothing about orders and chain of command, they are just bullshitting because of their Robb hate Blackfish knows what it meant.
  12. divica

    Master thread on what the Show means for the book plot

    Not seeing any of it happening. After the fiasco with robb and with winter here the northmen won t leave the north.
  13. a girl knows nothing

    So...what was the final WTF moment ?

    The whole 40 min after Dany's death was the final WTF moment.
  14. I have had 3 different conceptions of Sansa: 1. Up until the point Ned was imprisoned: I wouldn't say I hated her, because she was just a naive girl, but I was not fond of her. 2. From the point Ned was imprisoned until she finally returned to Winterfell: she was one of my favorite characters. 3. Starting from nearly as soon as she got back to Winterfell: I have just seen nothing likable about her. She is conniving, grasping, and rarely even pleasant to people around her. The last part is particularly odd, because she was primarily trained to be charming and has shown that training off throughout most of the story. As is true of so much of the "new stuff" in the show, I just don't get where "Part 3" Sansa comes from, and instead I see her as one of the numerous character arcs that got perverted. Part 2, OTOH, seemed to evolve naturally from Part 1.
  15. Black Crow

    Heresy 221 and the Children of Winterfell

    And that's probably a good point to wrap and move to Heresy 222
  16. Darzin

    Edmure Should Have Got It

    But as everyone has said holding the caslte does not mean doing nothing. If you think holding a castle means simply sitting inside the walls then the second part of the order, protecting Robb's rear makes no sense. Edmure can't protect Robb's rear if he refuses to send his troops outside Riverun.
  17. divica

    Master thread on what the Show means for the book plot

    It can go both ways. Either seen as a miracle or as an abomination… But if the old gods are involved the northerns will love it
  18. And the majority of the Church's assets are outside of the Vatican and not in a single connected land mass. Pretty hard to take over the Catholic church by force of arms.
  19. kissdbyfire

    Master thread on what the Show means for the book plot

    I don't think he's dead at all. So I have no point whatsoever!
  20. Lost Melnibonean

    Master thread on what the Show means for the book plot

    Jon is on ice, literally and figuratively. Manderly has pledged his support, and Stannis ought to be able to able to lead a force of Northmen south like Creegan did to save their damilies from more mouths to feed. That's where Drogon can melt his face, and Daenerys can take his troops to help her battle Aegon. And then Satin, dressed like Prince Charming can give Jon a kiss and wake the sleeper to battle the Others. Ok, maybe not quite like that, but perhaps you get my point.
  21. kissdbyfire

    Master thread on what the Show means for the book plot

    I have been calling both types as fire wights and ice wights for years now. And Martin used the exact same in a fairly recent interview, so.
  22. Lord Lannister


    Uh, does anyone really think they had any plan for Gendry beyond bringing him back as fan service and a booty call for Arya?
  23. But does not use that power to prevent the entire destruction of the capital city. In fact, one could easily argue, he used his knowledge to set the events in motion. Had Jon never been told his true heritage it might have prevented the entire destruction of Kings Landing. What purpose was there in Brann telling him? To keep the events in motion that ended with Brann being king.
  24. Kajjo

    Arya the Explorer

    No, it's not. She never wanted to be a lady, she always wanted adventures, as tomboy, as young assassin in Bravos and now after finding to herself. She still does not marry and be "Lady of Someone", she wants independence, adventures, discovery, seeing more of the world. And that she gets. It's a perfect arc. Yes, he pack survived and she realises her dreams, too. Why not? Most adventurers and discoverers had families back home and ventured anyway. Why not Arya? Departing is always bittersweet, yes. But not tragic.
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