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Jon Snow is NOT a Targaryen


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#1 The Promised Prince

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 09:46 PM

You read that right.

Even if R + L = J is true Jon isn't still a Targaryen. Why?

Everybody who's assuming R + L = J is true will obviously claim that Jon is Targaryen. Well by blood that would be correct but he'll be illegitimate in Targaryen name and claim to the throne.

Because he's still a bastard, of Rhaegar and Lyanna. Elia is Rhaegar's true and legal wife and queen which means their children should be the only ones who should inherit the Targaryen family name and thus the throne. Jon wouldn't be Targaryen but a Blackfyre, bastards of Targaryens. Which would produce tons of plot complications and connections.

He'd be connected with the Golden Company, with the Blackfyre, with Dorne. He can turn against Dany and Aegon VI. This simple realization will open up a lot of possibilities.

What do you guys think?

#2 Jem

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 09:50 PM

This has been addressed up-teen times. There is adequate evidence to suggest that R+L were married.

And the name Blackfyre belonged to one specific Targ bastard (and his decedents) it is not a catch-all name for any and all Targ bastards.

Edited by Jem, 26 July 2012 - 09:50 PM.


#3 Lord Reaper of Pyke

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 09:51 PM

Some of the Targaryens practiced polygamy and there are people that believe he married Lyanna in secret.

#4 Every

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 09:51 PM

What evidence? I've certainly seen people talking about the theory, but I wasn't aware there was any really strong evidence to support it.

#5 pitakon

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 09:53 PM

yes he will not. he is dead.

#6 Jem

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 09:53 PM

What evidence? I've certainly seen people talking about the theory, but I wasn't aware there was any really strong evidence to support it.


The words and actions of the 3 Kingsguard at the ToJ.

#7 Winter's Ghost

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 09:54 PM

He'd still be a bastard, but their are some theories that believe Rhaegar married Lyanna.

#8 Ghost of Groat

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 09:56 PM

Bah! I still think R + L = J and R was Robert Baratheon. L kinda liked Robert but loved the targ. Got knocked up by Robert and made Ned promise to keep J away from Robert because Robert was a goober.

#9 Brony Stark

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 09:58 PM

Wouldn't he still be a Snow? He is after all a bastard. Or wouldit be Sand because he was born in Dorne?

#10 pitakon

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 09:59 PM

nah its Rickard + Luwin = Jaime.

#11 Jem

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 09:59 PM

Bah! I still think R + L = J and R was Robert Baratheon. L kinda liked Robert but loved the targ. Got knocked up by Robert and made Ned promise to keep J away from Robert because Robert was a goober.


Timeline doesn't fit. Based on the time that Jon was born, Lyanna fell pregnant after she was kidnapped.

#12 Garlan Marius

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:01 PM

Targaryens have practiced polygamy. Dornish are sexually liberal. I have no problem with Rhaegar being double-married.

Edited by Garlan Marius, 26 July 2012 - 10:02 PM.


#13 pitakon

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:02 PM

how would you know when Jon was born?

#14 richard_ba

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:04 PM

Elia was already passed away, both Raegar and Elia knew that she couldn't bear another children, there is a presumption that he either secretly nullified their marriage or that he married both, which is customary by Targaryen (polygamy), anyway I found a curious fact that I'm going to post in R+L thread

#15 Ragnorak

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:04 PM

The short version is that there were three remaining Kingsguard knights who all chose to stay at the ToJ leaving no KG protecting Viserys who would be the King after Aerys/Rhaegar/Aegon/Rhaella were dead if Jon was a bastard.

#16 Jem

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:05 PM

how would you know when Jon was born?


Shortly* before Ned found Lyanna dying in her 'bed of blood' (the Westerosi nickname for the birthing bed).

*Shortly meaning possibly up to a week or so ago, assuming that Lyanna died of puerperal fever.

#17 pitakon

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:07 PM

when was the other time this bed of blood was used?

#18 Garlan Marius

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:09 PM

when was the other time this bed of blood was used?

Sansa's first period? The situations are definitely not the same.

Just realized that wasn't what you were going for.

Edited by Garlan Marius, 26 July 2012 - 10:11 PM.


#19 Jem

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:09 PM

when was the other time this bed of blood was used?


It is used at least twice that I can think of off the top of my head (aside from the time that Ned used it in reference to Lyanna). Once was Mirri Maz Duur talking to Dany and once was a male character, I can't remember who now, saying that men do their battles on the fields of war and women do their battles on the bloody bed.

#20 The Promised Prince

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Posted 26 July 2012 - 10:12 PM

Even if they practiced polygamy, a bastard is still a bastard. So he wouldn't be a Targaryen but could be named as Blackfyre or maybe Rivers? Either way Dany's claim to the throne is still stronger than Jon's and as I've said he might resurrect old problems.