bilplat

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About bilplat

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  1. Your whole point is that they acted out of character on their wedding night. Drogo, as far as I know, has never been married. It might have made sense in the past for him to take every woman he wanted and have his way, but can you not accept the idea that he might be smart enough, or it might be imbued in the Dothraki lifestyle, to respect the woman who will go on to, as far as he's thinking, to become a part of the Dosh Khaleen? Do you realize how revered the Dosh Khaleen are to the Dothraki? The wedding officially made Dany a Khaleesi, so don't think that her newfound power over Viserys is anything but a result of her marriage. Sure, she had dragon dreams, but without the bloodriders that became her protectors on her wedding night, Viserys would've twisted her nipples like so many times before.
  2. I am very glad you created an account to post this. It is very easy to forget that Planetos is hugely immoral, even where marriages are concerned. It is very easy to forget just how many Westerosi people are unwillingly forced into marriages and brutally raped.
  3. You're absolutely right. Had this been completely ethical and moral, Drogo would have made sure that Dany was a willing partner in their encounters. Unfortunately, the (fictitious) culture of the Dothraki, and most of Planetos, dictates that after a marriage, the husband can claim his right. Fortunately, in our society, we know that acts such as "claiming a man's right" constitute rape. Here's the passage from aGoT: "At first it had not come easy. The khalasar had broken camp the morning after her wedding, moving east toward Vaes Dothrak, and by the third day Dany thought she was going to die. Saddle sores opened on her bottom, hideous and bloody. Her thighs were chafed raw, her hands blistered from the reins, the muscles of her legs and back so wracked with pain that she could scarcely sit. By the time dusk fell, her handmaids would need to help her down from her mount. Even the nights brought no relief. Khal Drogo ignored her when they rode, even as he had ignored her during their wedding, and spent his evenings drinking with his warriors and bloodriders, racing his prize horses, watching women dance and men die. Dany had no place in these parts of his life. She was left to sup alone, or with Ser Jorah and her brother, and afterward to cry herself to sleep. Yet every night, some time before the dawn, Drogo would come to her tent and wake her in the dark, to ride her as relentlessly as he rode his stallion. He always took her from behind, Dothraki fashion, for which Dany was grateful; that way her lord husband could not see the tears that wet her face, and she could use her pillow to muffle her cries of pain. When he was done, he would close his eyes and begin to snore softly and Dany would lie beside him, her body bruised and sore, hurting too much for sleep. Day followed day, and night followed night, until Dany knew she could not endure a moment longer. She would kill herself rather than go on, she decided one night . . . Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again." Here's my take: She's just in pain all over from the Dothraki lifestyle. She could "scarcely sit" because of riding. Yes, Dany experiences pain when they have sex. What 13-year old would not experience pain during sex with a person who most likely has a large member? Especially in the just 3 nights following their marriage night during which she lost her virginity. I can only hope I am not wrong, but I think Dany would've put up - and therefore describe it in her POV - a fight if she was unwilling. Fortunately, she has a dragon dream, in which she is engulfed in the fire from a black dragon, ending up feeling "strong and new and fierce." She adapts to the Dothraki lifestyle and comes to enjoy it, even the nights. She even shortly comes to take control of her relationship with Viserys, shoving him and securing his place walking behind the khalasar. I like to look at her first few chapters as a huge development for her. Before her marriage, she's a pawn in her own life, subject to Viserys terror. She is freed of this by immersing herself in the Dothraki lifestyle, in part because of her character development in the dragon dreams, and also because of the support of the Drogo and his men. She even comes to think of Drogo as her "sun and stars."
  4. Isn't that kind of the gist of what Varys tells Kevan before killing him? Creating chaos to make it easy for Aegon to drop in? Aegon, smuggled by Varys to Illyrio, and raised by JonCon, an agent of their choosing? You're 5th name having lineage back to Braavos is a great catch.
  5. I know this is hugely controversial, but how is it "clearly rape"? Where is Dany's lack of consent? Where does it say she is unwilling? Just because it is violent does not mean it is rape.
  6. Dany deciding to kill herself is not only the product of the physical sex. Your quote doesn't show the paragraph separation between "...hurting too much for sleep" and "Day followed day...". I see her brief desire for death as the culmination of physical pain, not only coming from her nighttime experiences with Drogo, but also from riding with the khalasar: "The khalasar had broken camp the morning after her wedding, moving east toward Vaes Dothrak, and by the third day Dany thought she was going to die. Saddle sores opened on her bottom, hideous and bloody. Her thighs were chafed raw, her hands blistered from the reins, the muscles of her legs and back so wracked with pain that she could scarcely sit. By the time dusk fell, her handmaids would need to help her down from her mount." I disagree with "It was actually Doreah’s advice that was the catalyst in changing their relationship". I think it was her getting over the pain that accompanies riding a horse all day for weeks on end. She (arguably) has a dragon dream, and from then on, "From that hour onward, each day was easier than the one before it. Her legs grew stronger; her blisters burst and her hands grew callused; her soft thighs toughened, supple as leather." After her "dragon dream" she "began to find pleasure even in her nights, and if she still cried out when Drogo took her, it was not always in pain." Also after this, she even stands up to Viserys, resulting in him walking at the end of the khalasar. I see the wedding night as the catalyst for Dany realizing just what a toxic influence Viserys is. After her wedding night, she adopts the Dothraki way. Yes, it is painful, but she persists and goes through major character development.
  7. I think that you're too strongly/misguidedly characterizing Dany as fearful of Drogo. Prior to Dany riding her new philly, all the fear of Drogo is instilled by Viserys. Viserys is the real abuser of Dany. Viserys is the one who makes Dany believe that she will be treated as property by Drogo; Viserys is the one who makes her believe she is a child, while she does not think of herself as a child in Drogo's presence ("Drogo stepped forward and put his hands on her waist. He lifted her up as easily as if she were a child and set her on the thin Dothraki saddle..." then later, after Viserys threatens Dany to please Drogo, "The fear came back to her then, with her brother’s words. She felt like a child once more, only thirteen and all alone, not ready for what was about to happen to her.") I see the sex scene and Dany's willingness in it as more of a reflection of Dany and Visery's relationship. In the very drawn out foreplay ("It seemed as if hours passed before his hands finally went to her breasts."), the blindfold is being taken off Dany. She realizes that it is her brother's delusions that she has been blindfolded with. When the blindfold is gone, she simply sees her new husband on her wedding night. She has already been introduced and acclimated to the idea that a marriage needs to be consummated, so she willingly takes part. In summary, Dany is a frightened and abused child, yes. But she is frightened of her brother's iluusion of Drogo, not Drogo himself. When the illusion is destroyed, she sees Drogo for what he is in that moment: a tender husband on their wedding night. She accepts her situation, which is to consummate the marriage. Had Drogo fulfilled Visery's illusions and acted like a brute and rapist from the beginning of their first sexual encounter, I think that Dany would've treated the experience as rape.
  8. Don't get your panties in a bunch
  9. Hand o' da King
  10. Can't be true. Ygrette's actions would have toppled the Wall.
  11. Thanks for the history lesson (that might come off as sarcastic, but I assure you, its not). I hadn't realized there were examples of Lord Commanders who served as Hands. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense. The Hand is second in power only to the King, so Aegon V would definitely only place his most trusted friend/advisor/protector in that position. I love to hear all this speculation and can't wait to read about the development of these characters. It intrigues me to think about the implications of Dunk getting married before he joins the Kingsguard. I expect we're sure to find out (that is, if GRRM ever finishes...).
  12. I really like your thoughts on this, especially the last paragraph, but I'm doubting that Dunk will be revealed to have served as Aegon V's Hand. As he's already on the king's council in his role as the Lord Commander, I don't see a need for Aegon V to make Dunk his Hand. As I'm typing, though, I wouldn't be surprised if Aegon did it anyways. Something along the lines of revealing Dunk's origin as a Flea Bottom dweller to the small folk as he puts the chain of office around Dunk's neck.
  13. Wasn't trying to get technical. Have you heard those colloquial terms I quoted? In any case, they're more suited to today's mostly-literate society than the largely illiterate medieval society.
  14. Dunk's definitely not "book smart," but growing up in the streets of King's Landing makes him quite "street smart."
  15. I must be missing something. What Dunk did to the Osgrey's smallfolk essentially saved their lives. Otherwise Osgrey, Bennis, and the smallfolk would have been slaughtered by Lady Rohanne's forces. On the other hand, Bloodraven offered safe passage to Aenys, then beheaded him when he arrived, then argued that he had sacrificed his honor to safeguard the realm. How can you compare them?