WeKnowNothing

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About WeKnowNothing

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  1. Technically, Jon would be a fire Wight, since he was brought back by the fire God, the Lord of the light. You forget Dany is sort of undead to, since she's fire proof in the show. So fireproof Dany pregnant with fire Wight Jon's child. Yeah, I can see that working without Dany dying. if you talk about genetically - then that also wouldn't be a huge problem, because Jon and Dany are only estimated to share 46% of genes together. Which compared to Jaime and Cersei, is good.
  2. Book reader here - even in the books it seems very foreshadowed that they have to end up together. After learning about R+L=J, Jon and Dany become the last two Targearyens who could carry on the Targearyen lineage and if they marry, it would also be solving the inheritance issues it would cause if they don't. There's a reason why GRRM makes the last two Targearyen's alive a male and the other female - and marrying and reproducing is why. Dany does call herself 'Dany' even in the books. I think even GRRM gets tired of writing 'Daenearys' in every damn sentence, so he made up the shortened version of 'Dany.' It's good because I always find 5 different spelling variations for Daenearys, but no one can spell Dany wrong.
  3. Bran can show how powerful he is if he wargs into Viserion, who is now wightified. Warging into Rhaegal would just be like warging into any other animal, which we know Bran can do anyway. Whereas if Bran warns Viserion, it would be a huge power change for him. And Jon riding Rhaegal would be the factor convincing everyone of R+L=J, when Sam Sam and Bran attempt to prove it.
  4. Well actually that's not quite true. The only family member who Lyanna is described as looking like is Arya. Not Ned. Lyanna is described as being an 'ugly duckling' in her childhood years like Arya is - but as soon as she hits her teens, she becomes more and more beautiful, like Arya is now. Same with Jon, he seems to be described as more and more handsome, or 'pretty' to be exact in each book. Whereas Ned isn't described like this - Ned is just 'homely,' which is decent looks but not near handsome or attractive. By comparison, Ned's brother Brandon was the handsome one.
  5. ^ this. Henry VIII only made Mary and Elizabeth bastards to get back at their mothers whilst having them divorced/beheaded. It wasn't because of the divorce or annulment itself. If it was, then he wouldn't have been able to legitimise them again later...with just a piece of paper. And just reading up about the other annulemnt under the Catholic Church makes things a lot easier. King Louis and Eleanor of Aquitaine were married and had 2 daughters. However they had a unhappy marriage and both of them decided to have the marriage annulled, but they did not make their daughter bastards whilst doing so. It seems as if they could have chosen if they wanted to or not - but they chose not to. Eleanor and Loius both went on to marry other people, and no one had a problem with it - it was that easy. Rhaegar and Elia's situation could have been like this to. People assume too much when finding out Rhaegar had an annulment. This seems to automatically make him a jerk because he 'abandoned' Elia and his kids and ran off with Lynanna because he was 'prophecy obsessed.' Except it's more likely Elia agreed - because if she decided to stay in the marriage, she would have been obliged to give Rhaegar another kid because of prophecy/inheritance reasons...which she couldn't do. Then people would have regarded Rhaegar as a jerk for impregnanting Elia and killing her because of it. This scenario of annulment and taking another wife would be much better, and he would actually be doing Elia a favour by doing so. And anyway, the books could always go with the polygamy route - so who knows? People are making wild assumptions on Rhaegar's annulment and Elia's feelings and how big of a hypocrite Lyanna was - except this doesn't get them anywhere because a). Everyone seems to see facts and theories in a different light and b). We are 2 WHOLE books short of evidence, so why are such personal opinions on R+L being formed now?
  6. Woah that's a lot of assumptions you have made there. Firstly, the marriage in the books is very likely going to be different than the show. The books have the easier option of Polygamy, but the show are only going to take the easier option of annulment. So in the books, if Rhaegar takes the polygamy route, he would technically not be abandoning Elia or his other two kids. and even if he had an annulment - how can you assume the kids would become bastards? In real life history, an annulment means that the kids become bastards if you annul a marriage with your spouse. But GRRM doesn't seem to follow this - the only mention he makes of annulment is Robert and Cersei's marriage. And that would only have meant Cersei wouldn't have been Robert's legal wife anymore, not that their kids would become bastards. Same with Rhaegar and Elia - if he annuls their marriage, it would only mean they aren't legally married anymore...but their kids would still be in line for the throne. They would just be joined with any other kids Lyanna gives Rhaegar. you have also assumed that Elia wanted to stay married to Rhaegar, when evidence says she probably wouldn't have wanted to. She wasn't even in love with him, and she became barren after giving birth to Aegon. A huge negative because Rhaegar needed another son. So what's wrong if she decides to have the marriage annulled? It's good for her as she now doesn't have to die to give birth to another kid, and she can also go back to Dorne. I also don't know how you seem to have gotten that idea of Rhaegar taking his first sons name and giving it to Jon. It's a lot more likely that Jon's real name is Aemon or Jaehearys. I'm not one of those 'who don't care' about Elia and her kids, but you just seem to have taken a huge leap and 'confirmed' Rhaegar as some sort of douche just because he had his marriage annulled. In reality, it's a lot more likely that it was the wish of all three involved.
  7. I'm a show watcher (as well as a book one) and after watching the recent episode it indeed seems as if they gone through with the 'true king' cliche. Ah yes, sorry. I didn't pick up that mention of Cats own chambers. The show certainly do not seem to go that way though, so it makes it confusing if you need to compare it to real life history or anything.
  8. Show watcher? If you've watched the recent episode then you would likely know by now that your R+E theory has been wrong.
  9. But as we see for other couples in the story, they do NOT sleep in different chambers/beds. They only sleep apart if they have problems or difficulties in between them. Having sex is a whole different matter - it can mean that some of them visit each other to have sex, instead of sleeping in one bed. Whilst others share a bed and chamber together instead, so they don't have to visit each other. Also, the AWOAIF specificly states when a couple do and do not have sex, and if they sleep in one bed or not - e.g: Aerys/Rhaella slept apart but he visited her occasionally, and this was perhaps the same case for Aegon/Naerys. Aegon/Haelena used to sleep together in one bed and shared a chamber to have sex, but had stopped sharing either of these when she became mad. Even Robert/Cersei used to sleep together in one bed, and this wasn't always just to have sex. Ned/Cat shared one bed and one chamber, and there isn't any mention of them visiting each other.
  10. How is Jon being the true heir/King cliche? This is a fantasy medieval story, so all cliches fit right in here. And anyway, we don't yet know if GRRM will break this cliche or not - he did seem to break his other fairytale cliche, which was Robert's rebellion.
  11. But this would only be IF GRRM has based annulment in the world of ASOIAF to real history. Which he doesn't seem to have done, as most of his customs and traditions in ASOIAF do not seem to go off real history. the only mention of annulment we have is of Robert and Cersei's marriage - Renly and the Tyrells were certain that he would put Cersei aside for Margeary - but the kids, unlike Cersei, do not have to be 'put aside' just because Robert annuls his marriage to their mother. The kids, particularly Joffrey and Tommen, would always remain Robert's heirs (this is if the Jaime-Cersei incest wasn't revealed) and would also remain higher up on sucession than any kids Margeary would give Robert. so for Rhaegar and Elia's marriage, Rhaegar can declare his marriage invalid all he wants, but that wouldn't put his kids legitimacy in question at all. Aegon would just remain higher in succession than any sons Lyanna would have had with Rhaegar.
  12. An annulment wouldn't have meant Aegon wasn't heir anymore. An annulment would only have dissolved his marriage with Elia, but not making his children bastards. The children would keep their spaces in sucession, only to be joined by any other children Rhaegar would have had with Lyanna. Eventhough this is what happens in history, GRRM doesn't seem to follow this in the books. All the married couples seem to sleep in one bed - Ned/Cat, Jon/Lysa, and even Robert/Cersei. Their are many others in ASOIAF history who slept in one bedroom/bed together, but it'll take ages to dig it all up from AWOIAF. From the top of my head, the only couples who are described as not sharing a bed together/or had stopped sharing one after a while were: Aegon/Haelena, because she fell into madness so they stopped sharing a bed. Aerys/Rhaella had stopped because he fell into madness and courted other women for a long while. Aerys I and his wife, because he didn't seem to want to consummate his marriage in the first place and showed no interest in her. Aegon IV/Naerys rarely shared one because he hated her, they only had sexual relations rarely just to concieve their kids, and he had 9 other mistresses in his marriage to share his bed with. so regarding Rhaegar/Elia, we know they must have shared a bed before the concievement of Aegon. But we also know that the Maesters told Rhaegar that Elia was barren after the birth of Aegon, and that another birth would definitely kill her. So if they decided to stop sharing a bed together, just so they can stop having sexual relations - then it's not unlikely that they followed this. In the red keep, it wouldn't be unusual for him to share a chamber or bed with Elia, since many other princes and kings and done so with their own wives. So the fact that Rhaenys was said to hide under 'Rhaegar's bed' and not her 'parents bed,' gives the impression that Rhaegar and Elia hadn't been sleeping together since Aegon's birth/concievement.
  13. Actually, there is proof that Rhaegar wasn't as obsessed with prophecies as we first think of him to be. We only have proof that Rhaegar was into the prophecy of TPTWP, and nothing other than this. Saving the world is a whole other idea, that we don't have proof of Rhaegar believing in at all. Adding this, Rhaegar wouldn't have believed Lyanna was important to the prophecy either - wouldn't it be better if Rhaegar fulfilled the prophecy unknowingly? He spend his life chasing the prophecy and trying to make it come true, but he unknowingly completes it by falling in love with a woman that was forbidden to him.
  14. I like your theory - but for some reason, Jon seems to fulfil the the prophecy more than Dany or any of the other characters. Reading his stabbing scene in ADWD, there is great, subtle foreshadowing of Jon fulfilling the prophecy...unlike Dany who definitely seems to be a red herring. I think if we ever get the next book ('if'), reading his resurrection will be very interesting in regards to both the Azor Ahai and TPTWP prophecies.
  15. The southron ambitions thing is a whole other theory, which can be debated for and against. And everyone has various beliefs on this - so it really depends on what you believe of it, and how it factors into your beliefs on everything related to R+L. Let's say for now, that it was those houses having a grab for power...then their reactions to Rhaegar's disappearance with Lyanna would make a whole lot more sense. Whereas if there was no southron ambitions, their reactions on hearing about R+L makes less sense storywise. and about the Stark marriages - i meant that they NEVER married houses that were either not first men, northern houses, or their bannermen. Houses Tully and Baratheon were neither of these - so the fact that Rickard had made an alliances with them for the first time in Sark history was very strange. Strange enough to raise doubts and suspicions. And Ned not thinking about Rhaegar isn't absence of evidence - infact Ned DOES have Rhaegar in his mind. What I meant to say was; when Rhaegar is mentioned on page, Robert would rage on and on about him, whilst Ned would just remain silent and would not even acknowledge Robert's words as being true. He certainly thinks of Rhaegar, just not in the context of how Robert does. And shock and trauma isn't a believable excuse - as I've said, every other character POV has a trauma of some sort, yet they still think back on it later on. So I guess Ned is just special enough that he can't think about his traumatic experience like other POVs...and those are POVs who have had more traumatic memories than Ned. And Ned's version of the crowning isn't told as Rhaegar insulting Lyanna, more like Ned was just upset or shocked it had happened. No mention of it being an insult. Brandon probably thought of it as an insult, though one more like he doesn't want something to happen to Lyanna like what he himself does with Barbery. We also don't know how Brandon thought of R+L's disappearance - did he find out Lyanna was kidnapped or did he receive word of her running away with Rhaegar? We can't perceive Brandon thinking of it as an insult/kidnapping and rape when a). we don't yet know what message he had heard and b). Brandon clearly overreacted and would have thought anything Rhaegar does with Lyanna as an insult - so kidnapping or eloping, Brandon probably would have reacted the same way. Moving on to Rickard, there is no mention of his reaction on Lyanna's 'kidnapping' or 'elopment,' and he doesn't even bother to make himself heard until Aerys orders him to come to Kings Landing to answer for Brandon's crimes. And when he does get to KL, again - there is no mention of Rickard asking for Lyanna, instead he only comes for Brandon. Which is very strange since his daughter is still missing...yet he never even asks about her? I think he clearly knew something, because his actions are unexplainable if he didn't. Hearing your daughter has been kidnapped (and to be raped) would be enough to raise his banners and demand her back, but he doesn't do anything like this - and that's what comes into question. Regarding Ned and Jaime - sure, Ned hates Jaime for killing Aerys - but you have to count in here that Ned doesn't know anything about on why Jaime really killed Aerys. Ned assumes Jaime only does the deed because he was dishonourable and preferred being true to his father instead of Aerys. Since Ned is a moral and honourable man, if he did know the truth about the wildfire - then I can see Ned acknowledging the good deed Jaime had did by killing Aerys. Parallel this with the 3 KG at the ToJ, if Ned had known they had helped Rhaegar kidnap and rape Lyanna, then he would hate them. Doesn't matter that they were following Rhaegar's orders, but Ned would definitely hate them for an abduction and rape of Lyanna. You forget that Ned is human, despite being honourable - and can hate people due to personal reasons. However, if he found out that they were protecting Lyanna (and baby Jon), and that Lyanna had been there in her own will, then Ned would respect these KG who died defending her - which matches with his description of them being a 'marvel,' a 'shining lesson to the world,' and that Arthur Dayne was 'the best Kingsguard he had ever seen.'