WeKnowNothing

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  1. It's not written in the books specifically, but everyone of these Targearyens who seemed to belive on the prophecy were aware of some sort of 'doom' coming - otherwise why were they do eager to produce the prince that was promised. They also took steps to try and achieve this, like when Rhaegar read a prophecy on TPTWP and made himself to become a warrior ("it seems I must be a warrior"). Jaehearys II also forced his two kids Aerys and Rhaella marry because of the prince that was promised was foretold to come from their line. He was so insistent on this as he had believe that the prince that was promised was to save he world from whatever 'doom' was coming. So obviously they knew something was to happen, and the prince that was promised is meant to be a hero to save everyone.
  2. I'm putting my bets on 'Aemon.' Just because, there is a lot of foreshadowing in the books of this and it would also make all of the Maester Aemon-Jon scenes (in the books and the show) incredibly ironic. And it would also make it very bittersweet, judging how good their relationship was. And also, the show has also taken Jaehearys II out of the Targearyen family tree, which would make us missing that generation. They also haven't mentioned Jaehearys I in the show- so if they have taken out both of them, Jon's unknown name being Jaehearys would make show only-watchers totally confused. It's not a name they know or can relate other characters or the story with. Same with Aegon, they haven't mentioned any Aegon in the show so it wouldn't make any sense. And if they decide to make a prequel, they would have to show Rhaegar's first son Aegon to be part of the story line, which they wouldn't be able to do if Rhaegar's second son was also called Aegon (as I said, it's confusing to show-watchers only). Also, mostly every Aegon seems to have a brother called Aemon in the books. For example: 2 sons of Jaehearys I were called Aegon and Aemon, Aegon II and brother Aemon during dance of dragons, Aegon IV and Aemon the dragonknight, Aegon and Aemon Blackfyre, Aegon V and Maester Aemon, etc. So following this, it would also make it ironic if Rhaegar's son Aegon also have a brother called Aemon (Jon).
  3. Rhaegal the dragon wasn't named after Rhaego, Rhaegal was named after Dany's eldest brother Rhaegar. Dany even discusses this in the books; after the dragons were born, she mentions that Rhaegal was a green colour. Then she also tells Jorah that she is naming this green dragon after her brother Rhaegar who died in the green banks of the trident. Infant both Rhaego and Rhaegal had been named after Rhaegar. As for what was in Rhaegars mind, it is thought at this point in the series that Rhaegar was melachonic about the circumstances in which the deaths of his relatives at Summerhall had led to his birth. And Rhaegars family (which only consisted of Jaehearys II, Aerys, Rhaella and Maester Aemon by this time) and Rhaegar himself, all thought that Rhaegar was the prince that was promised for about the first 20 years of his life. IT wasn't until Aegon was conceived did Rhaegars view change, and he began to believe it must one his children instead of himself. And since you mentioned Azor Ahai, i had read another theory on this forum (not recently) and Its not really relevant to this topic, but it's interesting if you are into the whole Azor Ahai theory. I'm not quoting word for word from the books, but Azor Ahai was said to try to forge light bringer 3 times. The first two times the sword had shattered. But on the third try, when he had stuck it into the heart of Nissa Nissa (who was his greatest love), it had worked into forming lightbringer. Similarly, Rhaegar had wanted to conceive the three heads of the dragon/prince that was promised. The first two times he had tried, it was with his wife Elia, who he had married out of duty. The third time, it had been with Lyanna, who he was said to have loved. And if Lyanna had died due to the birth of Jon - it mirrors Jon with Lightbringer as they had both been the successful results of Azor/Rhaegar's third attempt at trying and also, both of the women who they had loved had died because of these successful results.
  4. Many Targearyens believed that something bad was coming, not just for their house but for the realm in whole. Aenys I, Jaehearys II, Aegon V, Maester Aemon, and also Rhaegar were said to be convinced of this and therefore they all invested their lives in trying interprete the prophecy. They knew that something bad was coming, not for just the Targearyen's but for the realm in whole - and that's where the beliefs about "three heads of the dragon" and "the prince that was promised" comes from. No one is certain what "three heads of the dragon means," is it referring I three dragons who will be hatched? Three Targearyen members who will save the world? Or three sacrifices? "Dragon" can also be interpretated into "Targearyens,"like when Daemon Blackfrye II prophesised that a 'dragon' would be born under Whitehall - but we find out that it was only Egg revealing his true identity as Aegon Targearyen (V). Also Aegon V was said to have believed that a 'dragon' would be born in summer hall, but it ended up to be Rhaegar being born. Similarly, there have also been theories by certain book fans that there is foreshadowing in the books that there will be a 'dragon' born in the crypts of Winterfell, but what can be so special in the crypts? We know Jon has already been dreaming about the crypts and there are the theories about the 'dragon' being born there. I have my own ideas about this, but if you prefer you can come up with your own... Your first point: nothing is ever established in the text by GRRM. We as readers read in between the words to find hidden meanings and clues for theories and ideas just about in every POV chapter. Your second : True, Rhaegar never stated outright that he believes Rhaenys to be the first head of the dragon, but it had been strongly implied that he believes he has two heads of the dragon already in Dany's vision. His two heads so far, referring to Aegon and Rhaenys. And you said that Rhaegar may have believed that he may have been the prince that was promised or at least the first head of the dragon - but then this would be discounted since Maester Aemon himself believes that Rhaegar stopped believing this when Aegon was conceived, as Rhaegar had seen a comet "bleeding star" around this time. So this would also show that Rhaegar is not relevant to the prophecy anymore - he is not the prince that was promised and not one of the heads of the dragon, and also cannot be sacrificed. His importance now would only be due to being the father of one of the dragon heads/prince that was promised. Like this, GRRM specifically states that Aegon is the prince that was promised, which we know is unlikely as GRRM prefers to show and not tell. He tells us this about Aegon, but then he shows us Bowen Marsh's salty tears, the falling/bleeding star and the smoking wounds during Jon's stabbing in ADWD - and all of these things coincidently happen to also be part of the prophecy. your last point: does "transferring Aegon's consciousness into a dragon" or being reborn "into something stronger," refer to making Aegin being reborn into a dragon? If yes, then you should also take into consideration this was also what Aerion Brightflame believed when he drank a cup of wildfire, though as it was said in the books, "the gods were kind and turned him into corpse instead [of a dragon]." Aerys also seemed to believe that if the city burned down by wild fire at the end of the rebellion, he would still be able to survive as he could be reborn amongst the ashes as a dragon - and there is no doubt he would also have ended up like Aerion instead of a dragon.
  5. It is emphasised in the books (like in dany's house of the undying vision) that Rhaegar believed Rhaenys to be the first head and Aegon the second. It's why he says "there must be one more," because he knew Elia couldn't give him a third child - which would cause him to believe his child with Lyanna (Jon) would be the third head. So if he wanted to hatch dragons, he would sacrifice all three children in the ritual, as he would know just two wouldn't have worked. Even Dany knew to put ALL three sacrifices (Drogo, Rhaego and that red priest) into the fire when hatching her three dragons, so Rhaegar would be a fool for bringing only two of his children at the tower. and anyway, Rhaegar didn't concieve three children to just sacrifice them for a dragon hatching ritual. He believed he had to have three children (three heads of the dragon) who would work together to save the world in the long night. Sort of like a Visenya-Aegon-Rhaenys threesome, who worked together to conquer.
  6. The show fans seem to either go with Jaehearys or Aegon, since they probably tried to lip read Lyanna's words as much as possible. Although that does not make any sense, as Rhaegar already had a son called Aegon (why they would show in a prequel) and the Jaehearys's have been taken out of the shows Tagearyen family tree. So using these names would be very sudden and it would make show only fans even more confused. personally, I hope they go with 'Aemon' as being the true name since D&D try to copy as much from the books as possible, and the books have A LOT of foreshadowing for the name Aemon. And also would be bittersweet since the characters know Maester Aemon, and he had a good relationship with Jon.
  7. Yeah the other side of the argument could be that Rhaegar ordered the kingsguard to stay at the tower. But that all ends the minute they found out about Rhaegars death. The kingsguard don't follow a kings/princes orders once they are dead, which can be seen in AGOT - where Robert writes in his will his orders to which should take place after his death. But once Robert was dead and the will torn up, no one, not even the kingsguard cared about following Roberts orders anymore. To be honest, I'm not really sure about this matter. There's evidence for and against both of them both, so i can believe in both a little.
  8. Danny Flint was distantly related to Stark family, most probably a hundred years or so before the book was set (tho we can't be sure, we don't have a specific year or year or dates). The Flint family is more closely related to the stark family now, as Arya Flint (who married Rodrik Stark) was Brandon, Ned, Lyanna and Ben's maternal grandmother. Meaning that Danny Flint would have been around way before the books were set and probably descended from the Starks. The Dany Flint story was something about her flattening her chest down or something and chopped her hair off so she looked like a boy, all to join the nights watch. But once she did, others had found out that she was female - and she ended up being brutally raped and murdered.
  9. He smuggled Aegon, who he believed to be the second head of the dragon, out of kings landing - but left Rhaenys (who would be the first head) still inside kings landing? So how is his sacrifice rutial going to be completed when he only has two heads (aegon and Jon) at the tower of joy, and he's missing Rhaenys?
  10. Kings landing was never meant to be sacked at this time, and no one expected a sack either. Ned expected to take the city peacefully (in a seige-way), but obviously Tywin beat him to that. Technically, those three kingsguard should stay where strength is the most weakest. Rhaegar already had three other kingsguard at the trident, and Elia and her kids had Jaime, all of the city watch, and other tagaeryen loyalists soldiers at kings landing at the time. Whereas Lyanna had a few servents at best, in a deserted tower in Dorne. So three kingsguard stayed at the tower of joy, expecting Aerys and Aegon to remain safe in Kings Landing, and it wasn't until after their deaths that they considered Jon the rightful heir or King. And I don't see how Aegon could have been smuggled out of Kings Landing, when no one, not even Varys would have been aware of Tywin sacking the city beforehand.
  11. Barristan Selmy, Lewyn Martell and Jonthor Darry all went with Rhaegar to the trident. Arthur Dayne, Oswell Whent and Lord Commander Gerold Hightower stayed to guard over Lyanna and Jon at the tower of joy. Whilst Jaime and the city watch guards stayed in Kings Landing to protect Aeys, Elia and her kids. They generally order the kingsguard to either guard family members/heirs and so on or command forces in war. Like in the Battle of the Blackwater, they had some kingsguard out in the field, whilst others were guarding Jofferey or Tommen. its often implied the importance of kingsguard to protect heirs or close family throughout the book. Because of this, most argue that the presence of three kingsguard at the tower of joy proves that Jon must be legitimate, otherwise they would never have even there in the first place.
  12. Agree with both of the above. To your first point - Robert would never in his wildest dreams have imagined Lyanna ran off with Rhaegar. Never mind even think about it. His ego wouldn't have allowed him to, plain and simple. Secondly, it is risky true that the Kings word is basically almost considered as fact. So at least no one would speak to his face about elopment or love. But that doesn't stop them from having their own thoughts about Rhaegar-Lyanna. Several characters seem to believe that they were in love or ran away together, so not everyone believes Roberts propaganda.
  13. But the thing is, we don't know what info Robert got. Did he get info on eloping or abduction? Did he get news Rhaegar was raping her? We simply do not know. Personally, I think Robert just assumed abduction and rape straight away. So by the time he is king, everyone also feels what Robert says is the truth.
  14. It is possible that Robert thought that, and I would not discount the idea. But in AGOT, Robert probably spends half his time moaning about Rhaegar and making him up to be a violent rapist who raped Lyanna 'hundreds' of times. Believe me, the first time whilst I was reading AGOT, I was under the impression that Rhaegar had killed Lyanna himself the amount of times Robert ranted on about Lyanna and how Rhaegars 'raping' had killed her. It's not until recently that I'm not even sure what Robert believed about Lyanna-Rhaegar. Exactly. For all the above. Robert just assumes Rhaegar must have raped Lyanna, and he didn't have any proof for it. It's not like anyone actually (like a Westerosi CSI) saw or heard Rhaegar and Lyanna having sex, willingly or not. Like I said just before this, he also assumes Lyanna was raped 'hundreds' of times and this is one of the times where he was certainly thinking the worst ever scenario.
  15. Rhaegar couldn't have killed or even ordered Lyanna to be killed since he was dead for a month before she died herself. So the only people with Lyanna for about a few weeks at least, would have been the three kingsguard. And the kingsguard (especially those three) were regarded as the best and most honourable, so I'm having a hard time assuming everyone in Westeros would just think the kingsguard killed her even if they were ordered to. Since we are on the topic of Lyana dying, I've always found it very weird that no one ever wonders the cause for Lyanna's death. They really took Neds word of a fever to be true?