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About AegonTargaryen

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  1. Just to address the point of Tywin's long-term plan to have Sansa's son rule the North. My whole premise is that the RW transformed a war of succession into an inter-generational struggle of nations, transcending any political marriages engineered by the Iron Throne. The Red Wedding transformed Robb Stark into a mythical figure in the North, The Young Wolf, The King who Rose, The first Stark King in 300 years who laid waste to the South, defeated only by treachery. The Red Wedding made King Robb Stark a legendary martyr, and a folk hero, and his cause would not be forgotten because his sister was raped by a Lannister dwarf. Sansa's hypothetical son would only be accepted by the North if he catered to his heritage, and that means presenting himself as the heir of the Young Wolf, and to do so, he would have to carry on the cause. A product of a forced marriage and rape, raised in the south, and by Lannisters, would NOT compel the Northern lords to forget King Robb. The Northerners had Brandon Stark, Rickon Stark, and Jon Snow to rally around, and if all three were to fail, I believe a Northern noble would have ascended to champion Robb's cause. And if by some twist fate the North was kept in the seven kingdoms, then I have complete faith that once liberal democracy swept up Planetos, and 21st century modernity spread throughout, the North would eventually secede through a referendum, and a romanticised image of Robb Stark would be the rallying symbol for the election. Sound familiar? *cough Scotland cough*
  2. Yes I was talking long-term. The point I was making is that the North won't lose a home game, and if the IT wants to rule the North it will require some level of consent. Butchering the Northern King and the Northern aristocracy at a wedding feast, and then rewarding the perpetrators was a recipe for disaster in my opinion. Sure, with Tywin alive, Stark loyalists aren't too eager to rebel. But Tywin knows he's not going to live forever, and lo and behold, shortly after Tywin's death, the Northern lords are plotting another rebellion against the Boltons/Freys/Lannisters. And what are the Lannisters going to do this time? Fight the Northmen, in the North, during winter? IMO Tyrion's grim reaction to the RW in the show was the right one. "The Northerners will never forget this." Beheading the Northern King and parading him around afterwards, are you kidding me? Almost every great Northern family lost someone at the RW. How could you expect the North to hold to a Lannister king in the long-run?
  3. Tywin Lannister was a competent tactician (at the very least), and managed to win a war without ever winning a battle. On the surface it seems like the Red Wedding was a strategic grand slam -wipe out the enemy army, and murder the Northern King and his bannermen swiftly in one night. But long term it seems that the Red Wedding was bound to haunt the Iron Throne. In my interpretation, Robb Stark was declared King in the North for a lack of better options. The lord of Winterfell was beheaded, the Northmen thus couldn't hold to Joff. The Baratheon brother with the weaker claim looked strongest, and the elder brother's prospects seemed bleak. So the Northmen said "fuck it, let's just declare ourselves a separate kingdom." By this point however, I don't think things were past a point of no return. If Joff had been deposed by Tywin, Tommen had ascended, the Stark girls returned, I suspect Robb Stark could have been brought to consider laying down his arms and ending the rebellion. Similarly, If Renly had taken King's Landing, returned the Stark girls, sent the Starks Joff's head, Robb may have sworn fealty. Same deal with Stannis. The point I'm making is that after 300 years of union, before the RW I don't see Northern nationalism as having been as entrenched as it is at this point in the books. I simply cannot see the North bending the knee to anyone other than a Stark. *MAYBE to Jon if he took the throne, and MAYBE to Aegon if he took a Stark girl etc etc. I think at this point the RW has become a catalyst for Northern ultra-nationalism, and has made a Lannister monarchy impossible. The struggle is no longer about avenging Eddard Stark, it's about independence. The North knows no king but the king in the North, whose name is Stark. Thoughts? Any scenarios by which the Northerners can be brought back into the seven kingdoms without a half-Stark at the helm?
  4. How to indicate "spoilers"?

  5. Understanding traveling in GoT book

    If still interested, at some point there is a ship sailing for eastwatch by the sea going south. We're told that it took about ten days from eastwatch to the island of Skagos. Check out a map and it'll give a general idea of time/distances. Keep in mind travelling by ship is faster.
  6. Thoughts about The Red Wedding...SPOILERS!

    I always assumed that Jaime knew the red wedding would take place, though he had no part in planning it. Jaime would have to be a moron not to know that Roose Bolton was in league with Tywin, and most likely Roose informed him of their plans. Also before leaving Harrenhal Roose tells him to give Tywin his regards, and Jaime asks Roose to give Robb Stark his regards. At the end of the RW when the man steps up and stabs Robb through the heart, he says "Jaime Lannister sends his regards",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,so :dunno:
  7. Thoughts about The Red Wedding...SPOILERS!

    @Vjott I'm in complete agreement that Robb should have sent Catelyn back to Winterfell, and I think releasing Jaime was complete madness on Catelyn's part. I think I've mentioned this earlier but holding Jaime was invaluable to the Starks as he could have functioned as a kind of "insurance". What I mean by this is that should the war be lost, Robb could have always negotiated a peace if he held Jaime, as it's clear that Tywin regarded Jaime as his only son and heir. What's more, for obvious reasons Tywin would never go through with the red wedding if the Starks still held Jaime. In regards to Stark honor, yes there are deficiencies and shortcomings but you have to look at it in a relative manner. So Robb's lack of honor is him forgiving his mom, falling in love and getting married thereby breaking his betrothal, and not supporting the rightful king's claim (a man who seemed to have no chance of actually winning the throne). Let's take a look at the honor of other houses now. Lannister: Jaime murders the king he swore to protect, Tywin sacks King's Landing by tricking the king, and during the sack orders the murder of Rhaegar's innocent wife and infant children. Jaime and Cersei then take part in an incestuous relationship having three children that they pass off as King Robert's. When Bran sees them, they push the boy out of a window crippling him. They then kill the king and install Joffrey on the throne. They then behead Ned after telling him that he would live if he confessed...and the list goes on and on. Targaryen: Aerys refuses Lord Rickon's request for trial by combat, instead he burns him alive and kills Brandon as well. But let's not dwell on Aerys since hes mad anyways. Rhaegar kidnaps Lyanna, a girl betrothed the lord of the stormlands, starting a rebellion and plunging the kingdom into madness out of pure selfishness. Don't get me started on Viserys. Dany does some stuff that's "out there" but I won't mention it because I'm not sure everyone is at that point in aSoS (although I do like Dany and consider her "honorable") I'm not going to continue my list, you get my point. I actually begrudge the Starks for being too honourable and I think Ned would have gotten a lot out of reading Machiavelli's works. Tywin Lannister's brand of real politik is what made the Lannisters so powerful, but Ned's idiotic sense of honor ultimately cost him his life and put such a huge burden on his 16 year old son's shoulders. I'll end with this:
  8. Thoughts about The Red Wedding...SPOILERS!

    @vjott I really found everything you had to say pretty damn interesting, so I decided to address your issues I don't blame Robb for the Karstark incident. Karstark and his men walked into a jail cell and murdered the prisoners. This was more than anything an undermining of Robb's authority and a betrayal of his orders. Personally I would have preferred he send him to the wall, but I don't think this was a case of trampling on the pride of the Karstarks. The Karstarks blatantly betrayed Robb. As for the Freys, yes Robb messed up, and yes he trampled on the pride of the Freys. Does that justify Walder Frey butchering Robb and Cat and thousands of other Stark men in the most cowardly manner conceivable? I'd say no. As far as the Jaime incident in Riverrun goes, I completely agree. I think Cat acted idiotically. Keep in mind Tywin wouldn't dare go through with the red wedding with Jaime in dungeon in Riverrun. Do keep in mind that in the book, contrary to the show, it was a while before Robb knew Joffrey was Jaime's son. At one point Robb had thought that Joffrey was the rightful king, and that the rightful king had murdered Ned for treason. At the beginning of the war Robb fought Joff thinking he was the rightful king, but had no intention of swearing fealty because he wanted to avenge Ned. It seems perfectly reasonable that under these circumstances the northerners should declare their independence. Now I do agree with you that upon finding out that Stannis was the rightful heir, it would have been good for Robb to declare for Stannis. However by this time Robb had already declared himself king in the north and Stannis seemed to have no hope in hell of winning the throne. What's more we're given hints that if a Baratheon was able to win the throne, Robb would have been willing to bend the knee. To be blunt I think Stannis is a hot headed prick. Robb was just a kid and HIS BANNERMEN has declared him king, it's not like Robb had been scheming to create his own kingdom. Instead of wishing for the kid's death, fight the damn Lannisters, take KL, and most likely Robb would have bended the knee.