What if Ned was declared Hand of the King inmediately after the War of the Usurper?0

[mrunderhill]

Obviously besieging Storms End wasn't worthless. Yet it has been mentioned that Mace Tyrell was more or less camping in front of Storms End, having a good time.

ASoIaF wiki says the Trident Army only had Several hundred levies from the Reach. I cannot find more sources atm.

I also fail to see how the number of soldiers provided accounts (if you are right here) for

The Reach can easily field twice, if not three times as many soldiers as Dorne. That doesn't necessarily make them more devoted to the Targaryen cause. One of the biggest Targ supporters is house Darry, who probably can only field a few hundred soldiers.

Basically what I see throughout the books is that whenever people talk about Targaryen supporters, Dorne is mentioned. House Martell is also the only one of the great houses scheming to get the Targaryens back into power. The Tyrells had what 10+ years during which Margarery wasn't queen. Why didn't make Mace Tyrell a move to get Viserys back on the throne, like Doran did?

Dorne was against the Lannisters and the Baratheons. During the war they held back their support Martin has said this himself.

You have seen Kevan's quote for yourself.

Now these are Martin's own words.

Why did mighty lords of Mace Tyrell and Paxter Redwyne's calibre waste their time and efforts in besieging an untested young lord with (apparently) only a few thousand men (and those weakened more and more of hunger to boot)? Meanwhile their overlord were losing the war?

The Targaryens had lost a number of battles (and had also won some), but they weren't really losing the war until the Trident and the Sack of King's Landing. And then it was lost. And sieges were a crucial part of medieval warfare. Storm's End was not geographically strategic, but it was the base of Robert's power, as important to House Baratheon as Winterfell was to the Starks. If it had fallen, Robert would have lost his home and his lands... and two of his brothers would have been hostages in enemy hands. All important chips. Also the fall of Storm's End might have convinced many of the storm lords supporting him that the time had come to bend the knee. So the castle was hardly unimportant.

Tyrell had a sizeable host, but some of his strength was with Rhaegar, certainly. Rhaegar actually outnumbered Robert on the Trident, although Robert's troops were more battle-tested. I haven't gone into the whole history of the fighting, but there was a good deal more to it than just two armies meeting on the Trident. There were a number of earlier battles, sieges, escapes, ambushes, duels, and forays, and fighting in places as farflung as the Vale and the Dornish Marches.

When Ned appeared, Aerys, Rhaegar, and Aegon were dead, and Viserys fled. There was no one left to fight for, and the war was clearly lost anyway.

http://www.westeros....tegory/C91/P225

The Tyrells gave everything they had to win for the Targaryens. Of course things are changed they have a Tyrell as Queen. If this were not the case then things would be different. During the rebellion Dorne helped back.

Rhaegar had Dornish troops with him on the Trident, under the command of Prince Lewyn of the Kingsguard. However, the Dornishmen did not support him as strongly as they might have, in part because of anger at his treatment of Elia, in part because of Prince Doran's innate caution.

http://www.westeros....atheon_Brothers

Apart from making a marriage pact on paper the Martells did nothing for the Targaryens either. They did not provide for them or send soldiers to look after them. They were more interested in a way to get revenge on Tywin than restore the Targaryens.

[Fauch]

Tywin Lannister is also dead by now. Still Doran is trying to get the Targaryens back into power.

He has also consented to marry his son to a "Baratheon"

Some quotes mentioned throughout the books:

Tyrion (A Storm of Swords), talking about Oberyn Martell:

"Is it true that he tried to raise Dorne for Viserys?"

(Tywin) "No one speaks of it but yes"

Tyrion (to Aegon during ADwD)

"I would go west instead of east. Land in Dorne and raise my banners"

[Prince of Dragonstone]

Ned would have been offed instead of Jon Arryn. Jon only started meddling at the end when Stannis found out about the incest and told him. Before then he seemed pretty oblivious to a lot of the underhanded stuff going on under his nose. The Lannisters, Littlefinger and Varys all would have still had their schemes and machinations in place. Ned would have just been another obstacle to steamroll over. He probably would have been assassinated a lot quicker than Jon though because he would have been more suspicious and forceful. I mean, how long was he Hand for before the wheels fell off? A few months?

[Fauch]

I think it's implied here that he would have got rid of people like Varys and Littlefinger and he would have made another match for Robert other than Cersei. He probably would also have named a better Kingsguard.

[oprahnoodlemantra]

It's possible that Benjen wouldn't have taken the Black and instead would have stayed at Winterfell as castellan. Maybe he would have married and had children, possibly taking in Jon so that Ned wouldn't have to bring a bastard to court. Catelyn, Robb, Sansa, Bran, Arya, and Rickon would have been raised in King's Landing alonside Joffrey, Tommen, and Myrcella. It's possible they would have grown up as friends and Joffrey, with positive influences around him, would have turned out less douchey. Bran would have been able to become the knight that he always wanted to be.

The only reason Jon Arryn was killed is because he was investigating the parentage of Robert's children. Would Ned have done that without the need to investigate Jon Arryn's death?

[tydides]

Ned would not be performing how he should be. Specifically, he would ruin the Lannister alliance, possibly causing a Stark vs Lannister war much sooner. This would drastically weaken the Baratheon hold on the throne, as their two most powerful allies were destroying Westeros. I think another major thing that would happen would be the Martells raising Viserys in the midst of the Stark Lannister war, which would ruin everyone's day.

[Yakman]

Well, it's easy to say that Ned would have been better than Jon Arryn, but I'm not convinced that that's the case.

First, Ed didn't want the job. He wanted to go home. There's that. He may very well have left after a few years to go back home to Winterfell. At this point Jon Arryn, while healthy, is a very old man who is probably happy in the Vale - certainly away from the poisonous lies of one Petyr Baelish - who takes up the Handship? Stannis? Hardly likely. Pycelle? Who knows. Arryn's government had faults but it was able to hold an Empire together that was ruled by a man who did not want to be King and where internal forces were bursting to tear it apart once the only thing holding it together - Robert's personality - failed at the end of a boar's tusk.

Second, Arryn ensured that there was a smooth transition between the Targaryen and Baratheon regimes by pardoning everyone in Aerys' government. Would Eddard have done the same? He probably would have encouraged Robert to purge the court, which is fine when it comes to foreigners (Varys) and madmen (the Pyromancers) but not so great when it comes to Grandmaester Pycelle and perhaps even someone like Barristan Selmy.

Third, Arryn forced Robert to marry Cersei. I'm not sure that Eddard would have had the moral authority or the desire for that matter, to force the new King to marry Cersei. The Lannister/Baratheon alliance was critical to the survival of the Baratheon monarchy. Moreover, Eddard would have likely pushed for Robert to punish the Lannisters for their atrocities when they sacked King's Landing - either forcing Tywin and or Jaime to take the Black, and probably handing over the murderers of Elia and her children to the Dornish. In pushing for the punishment of the Lannisters, Eddard would have either succeeded, in which case there would be a seethingly angry Westerlands run by a very angry and quite competent Kevan Lannister OR he would have driven a rift betwixt himself and Robert, while making powerful enemies both for himself and for the crown.

Fourth, Eddard being in Winterfell kept him from falling out with Robert. Robert quickly grew fat and unhappy as King, and such a descent would likely have led to clashes with Eddard, who not only would be unhappy in the capital, but would most likely have sought to avert Robert's decline. Might Eddard have encouraged a military adventure or two - the Summer Isles perhaps? - to keep the King on his game? Probably not. But Robert would have gotten sotfaced at some point and gotten into it with his old friend, and driven a rift betwixt the two. Arryn was able to maintain his relationship through the ups and downs with his volatile King.

Honestly, I don't think Eddard being Hand would have been better for the Kingdom. It might have accelerated the spiral into Civil War that engulfed Westeros after Robert's death.

[The Fallen]

` Ned could not have been Hand at that time.

Ned had barely spent any time in the north from the time he became Lord of Winterfell through the end of the rebellion. Ned had to go home to establish himself as Lord of the North. He could not have stayed in King's Landing and name a teen-age Benjen to run the north in his stead.

Having said that, all the talk that Ned wouldn't have been a good Hand is thoughtless parroting. You can't compare Ned, Robert and Jon Arryn establishing a new way of doing business and how the new government will run with the climate and atmosphere that greeted Ned fifteen years later.