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Marcus

Westeros M2:TW mod- Alpha Map

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So you're setting coming-of-age lower then? I thought that Arryn wouldn't be in for a while, and have a secretly female Lysa as his parent or something. Seven-eight is a bit young... :D

I feel that 2hp units should be removed completely. Just give them higher weapon skill and armour perhaps. I am also for less scripts. There should be a few (less winter movement etc,) but it should mostly be unscripted. For those who have played DLV, you know what I mean. The game lags like heck. It just goes very s l o w l y. I think scripted events should be

-Eddard Death/Wall/Release

-Mance Rayder's army (if it is possible, also give the Night's Watch a scripted mission they have to follow to capture the FoftFM)

-Daenerys Targaryen (in a MUCH later release when we finally get around to adding in the Targs)

I feel that the rest will all have to be simulated by the player (not being active militiarily as Arryn etc.) I've always wondered what House Tyrell would do if they were attacked by the Dornishmen while at King's Landing... Anyway, yeah, my thoughts are

-Power up 2hp units if neccessary but remove the 2nd hp

-Only essential scripts (winter, events, maybe the DLV legendary weapon script for the Valyrian blades ancs)

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Question: Should Asha be made Balon's heir, or should it be Euron? AFFC is a little fuzzy in my memory, so I think it was Euron who succeeded Balon...hmm. I'll change the question: Who should be Balon's heir? Are there any other questionable successions? Lannister goes to Kevan... everyone else is straightforward I think.

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Can we choose whoever we want to be heir at the beginning? Wouldn't the age and family setup interfere with the selection? Anyway, Euron won the kingsmoot, I guess it's alright to pick him.

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Okay! We need to move on to the next step, agents. We need a list of who could be depicted as a princess, diplomat, assassin, spy, possibly outrider if we can implement it. Also we need to know what characters should start as retinues. Thanks for everyone's input...

Edit: Forgot the merchant agent...yeah...

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While I'm also thinking of this, we need to select an heir for Arryn, Stannis, and Renly out of their general's list. The game requires an heir at the start, even if they're not on the family tree, and I'd prefer to pick it than have the game randomly pick one.

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Speaking of heirs, is there a way to designate heirs when playing the game? For example, Stannis offered to make Renly his heir ahead of Shireen if Renly would kneel to him. Will it be possible to do something like that?

By the way, the list of generals is here. Harry the Heir is not in the list.

Also, I've updated Ser Robar Royce's age to 18-21. Catlyn says in ACOK that Robar can't be older than 21. If anyone finds refences in the books that are different to what I have in the Generals list, or narrow down the ages a little bit, please let me know.

I agree, Arryn's heir should be Harry Hardyng. Alester Florent makes sense for Stannis because he was Stannis' first Hand. Renly is harder because his most experienced generals were actually Reach generals. When he's planning his attack on Stannis, he puts Bryce Caron in charge of the left and Lord Estermont in charge of the rear. I guess I'd go with Bryce Caron. If it were up to Renly, he'd probably go with Loras. On the other hand, when Renly actually died in the books, his faction basically ceased to exist. The Reach eventually aligned with the Lannisters, and the Stormlords went over to Stannis. Maybe Renly should be left without an heir.

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Well, the easiest way for Renly to become Stannis' heir is to marry Shireen to him. But I don't think the game allows a faction leader to become another faction's heir, so...

There was talk of a possibility to script inheritance through marriage from one of BBB's modders, but it'll probably take too much work and only overpower the human player. The game's about total war after all.

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I suppose the question, then, is whether a faction can designate an heir that is not of that faction... Renly's heir (until he bears a child) is Stannis... that would allow a more realistic transition for troops aligned with Storm's End. Once Renly is dead, Stannis becomes Lord of Storm's End, and the lords likely go over to him. Alternatively, I suppose that Edric Storm would be well suited as heir to Renly... makes more sense to me to have Edric Storm take command as opposed to someone without Baratheon blood... like a Caron or an Estermont.

However, I don't know that Stannis should have an heir at all. Had Stannis died in the books, what would have happened? I think his faction would have imploded. King's men would've melted away, and the Queen's men (mostly Florents that had forsaken the Tyrells) would have likely entrenched locally... or perhaps launch a doomed assault. But I don't think that the faction would hold together... most likely it would splinter and cease to exist. I don't really see Renly being able to step in and take command of his brother's lords. Nor do I see the men bowing down to young Edric Storm either. Davos would have... but the Florents? Not a chance.

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The problem is the game WILL select an heir even if you purposefully left it unchosen. It will even resort to generals if there are no family available. And again, I think Stannis' faction still has a good chance to dissolve if he dies, with the rebellion triggers from BBB and the imminent threat all around.

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Could Renly be Stannis' heir and Stannis be Renly's heir?

I think Renly had enough charisma to get Stannis' lords to follow him.

Even if it's not realistic for Renly to take command of Stannis' lords, Stannis has less than 5000 men. Those men won't give Renly that big of an advantage.

Another possible heir for Renly is Cortnay Penrose. He was the leader holding Storms End even after Renly died.

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Cortnay Penrose was the castellan. Is it possible to add dead characters to the family tree? I'm not sure if it is, but if it is, it might be possible to simulate it more closely.

Cortnay does sound like the best choice possilbe (no other leaders save Loras). But I don't think that you can inherit an enemy faction. So

Greyjoy - Euron (closer to book) / Theon (law) / Asha (preferred by Balon)

Arryn - Harry the Heir

S-Baratheon - Alester Florent

R-Baratheon - Cortnay Penrose

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Marc already had dead people aplenty in his family trees, so yeah it's possible. Harry's line is pretty complicated though, I'd be satisfied if he's a general and named heir.

Back to the spare characters list...

Secretly Females/Female Generals

Asha Greyjoy

Maege Mormont, (Dacey Mormont not in atm, too many generals)

Princesses

Sansa, Arya Stark

Mycella Baratheon

Margaery Tyrell

Arianne Martell(Dorne is based on Moors, so we might have to get the middle-east princess mod)

Shireen Baratheon

Janei Lannister(daughter princess of Kevan because he's heir to Tywin)

Diplomats

Petyr "Littlefinger" Baelish

(Some womanfolk like Catelyn or even Queen of Thorns? would need tweaking...

Assassins

?(We might not be able to implement Jaqen, since new agents have new generated names. We could script buying faceless men and create him on the map though.)

Merchant

?

Outriders/Spies

?

Retinues/Ancillaries

Varys

Grandmaester Pycelle

Ilyn Payne

Melisandre

Thoros

Reed siblings

Maester Gyburn, Marwyn

Vargo Hoat

Salladhor Saan

Bronn

Clan Captains

Areo Hotah

Various fools

Hodor

Brienne of Tarth

Marillion

(Abundants: Syrio Forel, Left and Right)

(How can I forget, the HOUND himself...Sandor Clegane is anc too)

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I think Arianne should be moved into the Secretly Female. Dorne is very pro-female rule and making Arianne a female and giving the heir to Quintyn? Whatever it is, is very anti-Dorne. I mean they are/will crown Myrcella. FFC is a little foggy for me. Bleh.

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So I'm jumping into this a bit late, but here are some of my thoughts.

I think that making 1 turn = one week is a good idea to keep with the time line of the books.

This has a couple consequences. The rate at which settlements increase in population will have to be reduced considerably. Personally, i think that the ability to upgrade walls should be coded out. The way the game works is that if a city is razed, its population goes way down, but its wall type remains. Therefore, if you code out the ability to upgrade walls, all settlements would remain of about the same importance they are in the books, although their populations and incomes could go up or down. You only have a few truly huge castles (harrenhal, the rock, ect) and only a few truly huge cities (Oldtown, kings landing), making these settlements extremely important to hold.

I would also code out adoption of generals. With the exception of a few teenage characters, the generals you start with should be the only ones you get. (you can have armies without generals in this game... generals just make them a bit better)

Thats it for now, keep up the good work! everything looks great so far!

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Nice observations, that's basically the direction we're taking. Some problems might emerge from the irreplaceable populations and generals, but we'll probably have to wait for beta to test it out.

BTW a short update, I've completed two-thirds of the heraldries, with only Dorne and Reach lords left. Unfortunately, I discovered quite a few of houses banners missing in the Tower of Hand collection(my fault for not checking thoroughly, I know) so these might have to resort to westeros.org banners. But like I said, the ToH pics were still a breeze to mod compared to org ones, so I think it's still saved us some troublesome Photoshopping.

Some teasers for y'all:

0000pn4.th.jpg

0001vc5.th.jpg

0002rp7.th.jpg

0003sm3.th.jpg

Don't mind the portraits, they're placeholders. Marc's working on them :)

Feedback welcome!

Speaking of Marc, he hasn't been online for a while, probably been busy too. I'll contact him later to check with the missing houses and major heraldries. In a week or two we should be free to get fully back to work, hopefully...

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