Some thoughts about "Kings are a rare sight in the north"

[northern_amnesia]

Hi! Hope you’re doing great, this is not a theory (yet), just some thoughts I have about the north that I wanted to share, and see what you think, and hopefully get some input.

I’m far behind in my re-reading of the novels, so surely, I’ll miss a lot of details by just remembering what I read a while back, and looking for the quotes, instead of doing it the other way around. Sorry about that. Also, this ended up being much longer that I intended, sorry about that too!

 

Here’s the thing, the novels start from the Starks point of view, so everything we see is clearly influenced by the way they feel about things, and that’s especially true about Ned’s feelings for Robert.

 

 

Quote

 

“I trust you enjoyed the journey, Your Grace?”

Robert snorted. “Bogs and forests and fields, and scarcely a decent inn north of the Neck. I’ve never seen such a vast emptiness. Where are all your people?”

“Likely they were too shy to come out,” Ned jested. He could feel the chill coming up the stairs, a cold breath from deep within the earth. “Kings are a rare sight in the north.”

Robert snorted. “More likely they were hiding under the snow. Snow, Ned!” The king put one hand on the wall to steady himself as they descended." Eddard I – AGoT

 

 

 

This quote has led many people to believe that what Ned says, “Kings are a rare sight”, and what Robert answers “More likely they were hiding under the snow. Snow, Ned” means that Jon is a trueborn Targaryen, and it could be that of course, but I think that in that quote is the first indication that there’s something funny going on in the north, and that the rare sight and the emptiness are key here.

 

There are other interesting things in this quote, that I personally missed on my first read, this is Ned’s first chapter and of course, up until that point, we’ve never seen any other northerner, so the comment he makes that “likely they were too shy” goes unnoticed until we meet this people. And clearly, they are not shy.

 

The other very interesting thing here is how the king has to “put one hand on the wall to steady himself as they descended” because it’s clear that Robert is already very drunk, and of course, one could think that he became an alcoholic while being king, which is exactly what that chapter suggests, but we find out later that he was already a drunkard and a mess when he was very young, he won a drinking contest at Harrenhal when he was barely eighteen or so, and had a bastard being much younger than that.

 

So, the point here is that while Ned saw absolutely nothing wrong in bending the knee to that guy that had no other skills than being drunk all the time and unhorsing men on melees, the rest of the northerner lords could have other ideas.

 

 

Quote

 

“What did Torrhen and my Eddard die for, if I am to return to Karhold with nothing but their bones?” asked Rickard Karstark.

“Aye,” said Lord Bracken. (..) What have we fought for, if we are to put all back as it was before?” Catelyn XI

 

 

 

When Robb is proclaimed king, it all started with Cat saying that Robb should agree to Joffrey’s terms and exchange their four Lannister prisoners for her two daughters, and of course the men refused. The first one that speaks is Karstark, and what he says about his sons, and what Braken adds “what have we fought for, if we are to put all back as it was before” made sense at that point but especially during the "War of the usurper”.

 

The Starks had lost three members of their family, and not 'some' member but the Lord and his heir, and at least four other northern families lost their heirs too, Dustin, Ryswell, Glover, and Wull. But when the war ended, the north went back to business as usual, they gained absolutely nothing from that war. None of those families, except the Glovers, sent a big force with Robb, in fact the Wull’s, as far as I remember, are not even mentioned.

 

We found out later that the Dustins and Ryswells are all in with Roose, but the Wulls aren’t. It’s not clear if Roose always planned to betray the Starks, I honestly can’t remember, I believe that it was Robb’s marriage and Karstark’s beheading what changes things, please correct me if I’m wrong.

 

When Jon sends Stannis to the Mountains so he can, as Jon suggested, get Deepwood Motte back, all the clans join his army, and out of nowhere, Alysane Mormont also showed up there. Alysane’s presence there is weird, the Mormont’s had declared not long before that, that they knew no king in the north but A STARK, so it’s clear that at that point something is going on in the north, there are great theories about this, but I think that it started long before. At least the idea of a “better king” is old.

 

Quote

“MY LORDS!” he shouted, his voice booming off the rafters. “Here is what I say to these two kings!” He spat. “Renly Baratheon is nothing to me, nor Stannis neither. Why should they rule over me and mine, from some flowery seat in Highgarden or Dorne? What do they know of the Wall or the wolfswood or the barrows of the First Men? Even their gods are wrong. The Others take the Lannisters too, I’ve had a bellyful of them.” He reached back over his shoulder and drew his immense two-handed greatsword. “Why shouldn’t we rule ourselves again? It was the dragons we married, and the dragons are all dead!” Catelyn XI

 

What Umber says here is as applicable to this war as to the one before. He says that the Baratheons are nothing to him, which of course is as true to Robert’s brothers as it was to Robert himself. Robert fought the war because the king asked for his head, not for Lyanna. That’s one of the biggest lies ever told. Up until the moment that Aerys demanded Ned’s and Robert’s heads, none of them did anything, not even looking for her.

 

Robert’s gods were as wrong as his brothers' gods, that’s clear, there was nothing that made Robert a great choice for a king, except that Ned loved him.

 

So, when Umber asks “why shouldn’t we rule ourselves again?” I suspect that he wasn’t the first to wonder that, and worse, when he says “it was the dragons we married” he’s clearly saying that Ned’s “wedding” to Robert has nothing to do with him, is one thing to “marry” a fearful enemy that has the ability to destroy your army in one single battle, and another to “marry” a guy you share absolutely nothing with.

 

AGoT starts with this great character, Waymar, (that looks like a Stark) that seems to be heading straight to stardom, but then dies tragically. He raises again “changed” with blue eyes, and I think that among other things, that points to the fact that for the north all they did was change the names, but not their reality.

 

Having Robert as king made sense if Lyanna was queen, but it made no sense to bend the knee to a southron ignorant that knew nothing, or care nothing about the north. In fact, Robert spends fifteen very long years in the throne without so much as set eyes on Winterfell, let alone the Wall, and that’s exactly what the first quote implies, “Kings are a rare sight in the north”.

 

Even when Ned was the king’s best buddy, the Wall, or rather the Night’s Watch was falling to pieces and apparently, he doesn’t do much about it except some discussions he has with Benjen. Worse, the north and Ned’s marriage were pivotal to allow him to get that throne and he never even went there until he needed something.

 

In Cat’s first chapter is clear that Mance has been a problem for a while, that the raiding’s are getting bolder, and the rangers are dying in an alarming rate, yet Ned doesn’t seem concerned. Of course, Ned doesn’t live as close to the Wall as the mountain clans, or the Umbers, or the Karstarks. The Wall is their main concern because their smallfolk and their women relies on the NW.

 

 

Quote

 

Maege Mormont stood. “The King of Winter!” she declared, and laid her spiked mace beside the swords. And the river lords were rising too, Blackwood and Bracken and Mallister, houses who had never been ruled from Winterfell, yet Catelyn watched them rise and draw their blades, bending their knees and shouting the old words that had not been heard in the realm for more than three hundred years, since Aegon the Dragon had come to make the Seven Kingdoms one… yet now were heard again, ringing from the timbers of her father’s hall:

“The King in the North!”

 

 

 

When Robert says Snow, Ned! I honestly think is this what it means, what Maege says, the “King of Winter”, Kings were not a rare sight in the north, there’s a crypt full of them, right on Ned's face, on the contrary, the Starks were always kings, what was rare and likely scared them were dragons, so of course they knelt, but at least they negotiated first, Ned on the other hand…

 

I mentioned at the beginning that this phrase: "More likely they were hiding under the snow. Snow, Ned" seems to me an indication of 'something', and the thing is that Jon remembers Robb with snow melting on his head, which is a very clear parallel to Viserys, and of course to the fact that what was "hiding" was the idea of a new king, a true king, born in the right place, that believed in the right gods, and that understood the people he ruled.

 

I also believe that when the north knelt to the dragons, they did it bidding their time, waiting for a chance to rise again, that’s hinted in the prologue, Waymar rises when Will goes for his sword and heavily hinted in what the wildlings represent, the old blood, what the north likely looked like before the dragons.

 

The shouting when Robb is proclaimed king also made me think about Jon’s announcement on the Shieldhall when he declares that he’s going for Ramsey, not because he killed Stannis, and not because he has Mance on a cage, but because is a matter of principle, Ramsey called him a craven. Aside from the very clear parallel to Bael’s song there are also very clear parallels to both wars.

 

Brandon went straight to KL like a mad man demanding blood, because what Rhaegar did was call the Starks cravens. Ramsey demanded a bunch of people in exchange of not bothering Jon or his crows, and that’s what Rhaegar did, took Lyanna and apparently expected no trouble from Winterfell, so clearly, he must have thought them cravens.

 

People die in wars all the time, so if you must go to war, at least make a point so people won’t mess with you again. The Starks made absolutely no point. Joffrey did exactly what the Targaryens did, and the northern lords did what Ned should have done 15 years before, make it worth, if a lot of people had to die, at least they should die for something, for the rare sight of ruling themselves again.