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Is there a tenative unit list for each faction yet?

And will there be any balance changes made before beta. Such as the balance used in Kingdoms. For example dismounted knights in vanilla were 13/21, and in kingdoms they were 11/17.

I've thrown away all the units which don't fit in Westeros. This includes: highlanders, nubian spearmen, berbers, lamtuna spearmen, sherwood foresters, carroccio standards, conquistadores, almughavars, jinetes, javelin troops, all the order knights and gunpowder units, and so on.

Sometimes I'm not sure if they would fit, i.e. Pavise crossbowmen. I don't know if the pavise shield exists in Westeros so... I deleted those as well. Other difficult ones are the Venetian heavy infantry and the billmen.

So the unit rosters will be smaller than what you see in vanilla. I can't model nor skin so adding new units is not an option. The skinner who's helping me will edit some of the remaining units. These are for instance town milita, spear militia, peasant archers, dismounted knights, etc. Several units will be renamed and get a new description.

Most factions will also have some elite units which can only be built in their core lands (e.g. 'Knights of the Reach' will only be recuitable in the Reach, obviously).

I cannot offer you a list of all the units yet. It's still work in progress.

And yes, it's my intention to edit the unit stats. I don't agree with some of the vanilla stats and will change them as I see fit.

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Most factions will also have some elite units which can only be built in their core lands (e.g. 'Knights of the Reach' will only be recuitable in the Reach, obviously).

I cannot offer you a list of all the units yet. It's still work in progress.

And yes, it's my intention to edit the unit stats. I don't agree with some of the vanilla stats and will change them as I see fit.

Cool. Sounds great. Can't wait until its ready. :P

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I've thrown away all the units which don't fit in Westeros. This includes: highlanders, nubian spearmen, berbers, lamtuna spearmen, sherwood foresters, carroccio standards, conquistadores, almughavars, jinetes, javelin troops, all the order knights and gunpowder units, and so on.

Wow, I didn't know "jinetes" were called "jinetes" in English version. It means riders in Spanish.

Returning to the topic: will you add some skirmishers to Ironmen? I mean like those finger-dancers. This would mean melee units throwing axes instead of javelins (like almughavars or javelineers). I'm not asking for it, it's just curiosity.

If you plan to add a Daenerys's faction with mercs, slaves, some Dothraki, Free cities and Eastern people, maybe some of those discarded units would fit with her. Examples: Nubian units could look like Summer Island mercenaries, those pavise crossbowmen could come from Free cities. Jinetes and horsearchers could be Dothrakis...

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Wow, I didn't know "jinetes" were called "jinetes" in English version. It means riders in Spanish.

Returning to the topic: will you add some skirmishers to Ironmen? I mean like those finger-dancers. This would mean melee units throwing axes instead of javelins (like almughavars or javelineers). I'm not asking for it, it's just curiosity.

If you plan to add a Daenerys's faction with mercs, slaves, some Dothraki, Free cities and Eastern people, maybe some of those discarded units would fit with her. Examples: Nubian units could look like Summer Island mercenaries, those pavise crossbowmen could come from Free cities. Jinetes and horsearchers could be Dothrakis...

Good idea. But I don't think Danny is going to be included in this mod. At least for a while.

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Hi guys I was part of the old team, I thought this mod was over so I stoped comming over to these forums. If you guys still need help I would be more then happy to get back on the team and start making more stuff. The last stuff I was working on was the buttons, I did all the fam portraits and the loading screens, I can also do very nice banners and some skinning.

Send me a e-mail if you would like my help.

[email protected]

If not then good luck to you all and I can't wait for this mod. ^^

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Returning to the topic: will you add some skirmishers to Ironmen? I mean like those finger-dancers. This would mean melee units throwing axes instead of javelins (like almughavars or javelineers). I'm not asking for it, it's just curiosity.

You can always ask, Inda. I don't mind. :) I'm a curious person myself.

Are there any axe throwing units in M2TW? I don't recall any. I would not have a clue how to get started on that. Probably change the projectile parameters in the EDU and then do a lot of other files editing. It's not a priority.

The Ironmen will have archers and decent ground troops. Nevertheless I feel they will be one of the hardest factions to play. I will disable the recruitment of Ironmen (Ironmen Raiders, Ironmen Warriors, Ironmen Axemen) outside the Iron Islands (that means Pyke and Ten Towers) for logical reasons. In newly conquered territories they can recruit the various militia types and maybe some other units. I'll make the Ironmen cheaper and tougher to balance the gameplay a little bit.

If you plan to add a Daenerys's faction with mercs, slaves, some Dothraki, Free cities and Eastern people, maybe some of those discarded units would fit with her. Examples: Nubian units could look like Summer Island mercenaries, those pavise crossbowmen could come from Free cities. Jinetes and horsearchers could be Dothrakis...

Ah, Dany. I can imagine how it would have to look like in-game. A "The return of the Targaryens!" event, Dany and her armies spawning on the eastern coast of Westeros just like the Mongols in vanilla... It would be hard to get it done right. But I will not get into that issue for now. It will not be in the first release anyway because it would slow me down for many months.

Your remark about the units is not without merit. Indeed, if she was ever to arrive in Westeros I think her 'army' would be a motley horde of warriors and followers from many nations and the units you listed could very well fulfill those roles.

@ Drachen: Hi there, nice to see you back. I read that post of yours where you uploaded all those loading screens. I took the liberty of incorporating them in my mod and mentioning you in the credits (I would PM you first about it). Is it okay for you if I do this?

So far I like to work on the mod alone because I can set my own pace and - very important - I can decide in what direction I want to go with it. I noticed that the two previous projects wasted a lot of time and effort on debating and debating until something was agreed on. I can just fulfill my own dream. Thus far the feedback - which I appreciate a lot - has been really positive so I'm not a conceited autist yet.

Still, making a total conversion (or an attempt thereto) can only be singlehandedly completed by the most versatile and resourceful of modders and I am not among them. If you can skin or make 2D art you can surely help me out in many aspects. I've already taken care of all the portraits but there is a ton of stuff to do in the skinning department. Note though that I won't wait until all factions are reskinned before I'll release the mod in case it stalls the release too much. So don't worry, it will be released this year. :)

I will send you a PM later on when I'm less busy in real life (somewhere end of June) to discuss the development of the mod. Thanks for volunteering, Drachen.

Although I haven't been actively working in the last 2 weeks, progress has not stopped. LordSnow, the guy who skins House Stark is almost finished with the model textures. The sprites and unit cards are not done yet. I've seen his work in-game but I won't disclose anything about it until it's completed. Then I'll make a faction preview for House Stark and post that in a new thread here.

And I had some free time this afternoon and made several nobility titles which you'll be able to bestow on your generals/family members.

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You can always ask, Inda. I don't mind. (IMG:style_emoticons/New/smiley2.gif) I'm a curious person myself.

I do ask often when an idea comes to me ;), but it wasn't the case for this time. I'm following (and helping with info) the development of ISOAF mod for Mount&Blade. I saw those finger-dancers there and they fit really well the Ironmen style. Of course, M&B engine and MTW2's one couldn't be more different.

Cause almost every detail and needed info are gathered, I cannot help (I'm no modder and right now I have exams so I haven't time to learn).

Are there any axe throwing units in M2TW?

I'm afraid there are no such units. That's what drawed my curiosity.

I will disable the recruitment of Ironmen (Ironmen Raiders, Ironmen Warriors, Ironmen Axemen) outside the Iron Islands (that means Pyke and Ten Towers) for logical reasons. In newly conquered territories they can recruit the various militia types and maybe some other units. I'll make the Ironmen cheaper and tougher to balance the gameplay a little bit.

I think I've read it somewhere in this thread... If you plan to apply this rule to every faction (or at least applied to their unique units), a culture factor, just as the British Islands campaign from Kingdoms expansion, could be added to help. This way, as time goes by, conquered settlements will eventually worth the effort in military terms as they hit the culture threshold to recruit better units. It would be a pain to attack Sunspear with levies or troops brought from Riverrun or Casterly Rock.

How many cultures? Northern, Ironborn, Dornish and Westerosi (or Andals). Just four matching those from the expansion.

The problem is that it would force you to mod over Kingdoms or "port" that feature to this mod and keep it "Vanilla based" (a huge work I guess).

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I think I've read it somewhere in this thread... If you plan to apply this rule to every faction (or at least applied to their unique units), a culture factor, just as the British Islands campaign from Kingdoms expansion, could be added to help. This way, as time goes by, conquered settlements will eventually worth the effort in military terms as they hit the culture threshold to recruit better units. It would be a pain to attack Sunspear with levies or troops brought from Riverrun or Casterly Rock.

How many cultures? Northern, Ironborn, Dornish and Westerosi (or Andals). Just four matching those from the expansion.

The problem is that it would force you to mod over Kingdoms or "port" that feature to this mod and keep it "Vanilla based" (a huge work I guess).

Yeah I'm not sure how easy that would be. I think we are having religion, which is very similar. So maybe we could have the Ironborn units and other unique faction units be tied to religion levels. Say you need 80% of the population to follow the drowned god to recruit certian units for the Greyjoys. And similar requirements for each faction. I know that system was used in the Teutonic campaign, but I am not sure if it can be implemented in Vanilla.

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That's a bit how the game engine thinks, so to speak. On the second turn of the game I ALWAYS get a "candidate for adoption, benefactor: king stannis" notification. Next turn, again. Until I have 3 new family members, adopted sons (and thus a total of 4 generals). When Shireen comes of age she is almost immediately betrothed to some guy. And the adoptions continue... So the game tries to give factions with a small family new family members.

The Stannis situation also applies to:

Arryn (Robert has no children)

Stark (Robb has no mature brothers)

Renly (alone and no kids)

Joffrey (Tommen is a minor and joff unmarried)

Tully (for christ's sake, Edmure is still not married and the old chap has no offspring yet)

[take note: the game starts with Hoster Tully being dead since he's too old to fight and the game would make him die of old age in no time]

The adoption mechanism is one of my worries for this mod. I will need to make certain decisions. I might make a post about that in the future.

This can be solved with the "Golden Bastard Rule". All those who are adopted by a House could have the region Bastard name (Snow, Stone, Rivers etc). This way if a House has no Heir it could have plenty of bastards (Baratheon comes to mind) and it will give you a sense of continuing the story.

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This can be solved with the "Golden Bastard Rule". All those who are adopted by a House could have the region Bastard name (Snow, Stone, Rivers etc). This way if a House has no Heir it could have plenty of bastards (Baratheon comes to mind) and it will give you a sense of continuing the story.

Sounds good. But if the bastard becomes king does the kings last name stay Snow, Stone etc. Or would the last name turn into the family name?

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Yeah I'm not sure how easy that would be. I think we are having religion, which is very similar. So maybe we could have the Ironborn units and other unique faction units be tied to religion levels. Say you need 80% of the population to follow the drowned god to recruit certian units for the Greyjoys. And similar requirements for each faction. I know that system was used in the Teutonic campaign, but I am not sure if it can be implemented in Vanilla.

Riverlands became part of the North despite their religious differences (so Robb had access to Riverlands troops), something that wouldn't happen in this game with religous recruitment factor... but neither with a culture factor, and religion is already in Vanilla. Good argument.;)

This can be solved with the "Golden Bastard Rule". All those who are adopted by a House could have the region Bastard name (Snow, Stone, Rivers etc). This way if a House has no Heir it could have plenty of bastards (Baratheon comes to mind) and it will give you a sense of continuing the story

Good idea, unfortunately, it doen't helps with the "gazillion generals and zero sons" situations, like Robb's.

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Good idea, unfortunately, it doen't helps with the "gazillion generals and zero sons" situations, like Robb's.

Yeah. Looks like he is going to need some good kid making traits. And hope for sons. :leer:

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I've thrown away all the units which don't fit in Westeros. This includes: highlanders, nubian spearmen, berbers, lamtuna spearmen, sherwood foresters, carroccio standards, conquistadores, almughavars, jinetes, javelin troops, all the order knights and gunpowder units, and so on.

Sometimes I'm not sure if they would fit, i.e. Pavise crossbowmen. I don't know if the pavise shield exists in Westeros so... I deleted those as well. Other difficult ones are the Venetian heavy infantry and the billmen.

Hmmm. Well for the Venetian heavy infantry I think they will be ok to have. I think war hammers have been mentioned in the series in some battle scenes. They could be a high level/late period unit with good armor. I don't think that would clash with the books.

The billmen also might work. Polearms and halbreds have been mentioned as well. So I believe they could be used without straying from the novels.

Yeah as for the pavise shields your guess is as good as mine. So far none have been mentioned as far a I know. The free cities idea sounded cool for that unit eventually.

One more random question. Have the Varangian guard been used yet? Some of the Russian axe units would be cool as well. I was thinking that they would be fit well for the Greyjoys or the North. Dorne might work as well as a bodyguard unit like Areo H.(I cant spell his name). But the skinning would be an issue, unless the colors could be changed easily.

Will the Gallogalich be in the game as a unit? I hated the fact that they were only a merc unit in Vanilla.

On a side note I know there are no axe-throwing units in Vanilla. But they were used in Rome Total war I think. How easy is it to import a unit form one of the other Total war games? I'm not sure if its possible. But it may be cool if it would work.

Just thinking about this mod makes the work day go soooo much better.

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Robert himself used a big mace/war-hammer (though it wasn't two-handed). Axemen units would fit with Ironmen and Northmen as Jack has said. Hungary and Denmark have those too, both one and two-handed versions for Denmark. Galloghleig (or whatever it's their name) could be in one of those factions too.

I'm not sure pikes are mentioned in the books, but they would be a good weapon for the mod. The only problem I would see are those good armored polearm units. I mean, in the books the armies were mainly a mass of conscripted farmers/villagers with less more than a spear and a shield (in the better cases, read Septon Meribald's dialogues), but not chainmail or partial plate armor (like billmen or armored Scotish pikemen). Better infantry units had chainmail but also better weapons than spears.

However, making it in this way would make infantry useless and nobody would use them (like in Vanilla, just used to garrison cities for free) and thus, there won't be polearm units in the battlefield. I'd add them for this last reason.

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EDIT: and anyways, the armorer's buildings series would give armor to those conscripted farmers.

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Just a question. Is this mod going to use some feature from Stainless Steel? I haven't played any mod yet, I'm waiting to finish my Vanilla campaign and for this mod. But I read some good features there before I found this one.

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I'm not sure pikes are mentioned in the books, but they would be a good weapon for the mod. The only problem I would see are those good armored polearm units. I mean, in the books the armies were mainly a mass of conscripted farmers/villagers with less more than a spear and a shield (in the better cases, read Septon Meribald's dialogues), but not chainmail or partial plate armor (like billmen or armored Scotish pikemen). Better infantry units had chainmail but also better weapons than spears.

I think pikes have been mentioned. But as far as the North goes I agree completely. Maybe some of the pike units could be replaced by Armored Sergeants, and other spear units for the North. We could use the units from Sicily, so they would not need to be skinned at all. They have the proper white and grey coloring.

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I am sure that unit issues have been tackled already. Mechanincs issues are more serious problems IMHO.

Inheritors, seasons, diplomatic relations among the houses etc

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The problem is that it would force you to mod over Kingdoms or "port" that feature to this mod and keep it "Vanilla based" (a huge work I guess).

Yes, that would be quite an overhaul. I'll hold off with adding stuff from Kingdoms (although it features a lot of nice strat map models) until the first release is ready. Besides, in the first place I make this mod for those who only have M2TW vanilla.

This can be solved with the "Golden Bastard Rule". All those who are adopted by a House could have the region Bastard name (Snow, Stone, Rivers etc). This way if a House has no Heir it could have plenty of bastards (Baratheon comes to mind) and it will give you a sense of continuing the story.

A valuable idea. Do you know how to script this? I think it would require editing the (hard-coded) adoption process, namely forcing the game to give bastard names to all adoption-offered 'sons'.

It would be a nice feature. One could easily see the difference between an adopted and a natural son.

Sounds good. But if the bastard becomes king does the kings last name stay Snow, Stone etc. Or would the last name turn into the family name?

The last name would be the bastard name. I don't know if changing a name is possible after it has been assigned.

The billmen also might work. Polearms and halbreds have been mentioned as well. So I believe they could be used without straying from the novels.

I've decided to give the billmen to the Stormlands. In my mind they seem to fit Renly's faction. And their yellow trousers already resemble the Renly banner.

One more random question. Have the Varangian guard been used yet?

Not yet, but I'll see what I can do with that badass. :)

On a side note I know there are no axe-throwing units in Vanilla. But they were used in Rome Total war I think. How easy is it to import a unit form one of the other Total war games? I'm not sure if its possible. But it may be cool if it would work.

It would be too much work to bother, I think.

Will the Gallogalich be in the game as a unit? I hated the fact that they were only a merc unit in Vanilla.

They are not totally useless but they would require some drastic reskinning. The Braveheart-style paint on their face has to go and they cannot wear kilts. Not in Westeros. Maybe our skinner can fix them. :)

I'm not sure pikes are mentioned in the books, but they would be a good weapon for the mod.

They are mentioned in the battle between Roose Bolton and Tywin in AGOT. Ran stated somewhere in a thread that the Westerlands had the best pikemen in Westeros. So there will be a 'Westerland Pikemen' unit for the Lannisters. Other houses will have pikemen as well but I'm not done with the unit roster yet.

Just a question. Is this mod going to use some feature from Stainless Steel? I haven't played any mod yet, I'm waiting to finish my Vanilla campaign and for this mod. But I read some good features there before I found this one.

Stainless Steel is a high-quality mod. It has tons of features and it's very polished. It's by far the most popular mod for M2TW. The mod I make is simple and crude in comparison to what King Kong and his team have forged. But... Stainless Steel takes place in Europe and this mod in Westeros.

We could use the units from Sicily, so they would not need to be skinned at all. They have the proper white and grey coloring.

The Starks are being reskinned. You'll see the results when I post their faction preview. I won't disclose anything about it to keep it a surprise. ;)

Since it has been some time, here's a another screenie.

Some ancillaries of Joffrey

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I have an idea about names. If you can make each character have only his first name not a family name then you can have each general with a trait for example "Stark trait" meaning he is a Stark or "Lannister trait" for Lannisters.

See the mod Europa Barbarorum when they use this to describe ethnicities (for example a Greek could be from the Black Sea, from the colonies or mainland and this was shown on the trait)

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I have an idea about names. If you can make each character have only his first name not a family name then you can have each general with a trait for example "Stark trait" meaning he is a Stark or "Lannister trait" for Lannisters.

See the mod Europa Barbarorum when they use this to describe ethnicities (for example a Greek could be from the Black Sea, from the colonies or mainland and this was shown on the trait)

Lovely, this working with the Bastard region names could really work wonders.

Great find VorianGr

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