A quick question about Aegon

[gogorath]

I know a lot of folks have spent a ton of time mulling the real or blackfyre argument on Aegon, so hopefully people know this off the tops of their heads.

• Jon Connington obviously thinks that Aegon is real -- his first person motivation is not failing Rhaegar's son, right?
  
• The Golden Company, though, is joining because they think Aegon is a Blackfyre, right? They were started by Bittersteel and say things to the effect of "there's only one reason why the Golden Company would break a contract."
  

Did Ilyrio/Varys hire the Golden Company separately and not through Jon Connington? Is it apparent in the chapter that the Golden Company knows to dodge questions of why they broke their contract? I know they all dance around who the boy is.

[Rill Redthorn]

I know a lot of folks have spent a ton of time mulling the real or blackfyre argument on Aegon, so hopefully people know this off the tops of their heads.

• Jon Connington obviously thinks that Aegon is real -- his first person motivation is not failing Rhaegar's son, right?

The Golden Company, though, is joining because they think Aegon is a Blackfyre, right? They were started by Bittersteel and say things to the effect of "there's only one reason why the Golden Company would break a contract."

Did Ilyrio/Varys hire the Golden Company separately and not through Jon Connington? Is it apparent in the chapter that the Golden Company knows to dodge questions of why they broke their contract? I know they all dance around who the boy is.

No, I think the GC believes Aegon to be a Targ, not a Blackfyre. The GC gave up on the Blackfyre ambitions quite a while ago, but since the Targs fell they've become willing to support a main-line Targ over no dragon at all. This is said at one point, something like "Red or black, a dragon is still a dragon."

[Morningwing]

The reason for the founding of the Golden Company was to put a Blackfyre on the throne. Saying that they would Break a contract, something that hey have never done since their founding, to support a Targ, the line that they have been trying to depose for a hundred years is ridiculous. Following a Blackfyre disguised as a Targ though? Definitely. They would get to accomplish their purpose on the sly while fooling the Targ supporters into helping them accomplish that purpose while they had opposed them for the history of the company. I'm sure the irony is particularly sweet to them.

Jon Covington loved his prince and when he was told that his son had lived and was given the opportunity to raise him he jumped at the chance, probably not taking much time to investigate the truth of it because he was so desperate to believe that some part of his beloved prince had survived. The piss water baby story is so pathetically unlikely he has to be fooling himself. The whole story depends on The Mountain murdering the prince in a way that makes him unrecognizable, something that couldn't be counted on. Tywin said that they should have just smothered them which is the logical thing to do. The whole thing makes much more sense if they used the opportunity of the baby being unrecognizable to plant an imposter.

Jon thinks he is the prince's son and so does young Griff. The leaders of the Golden Company know better. Probably another reason they had old Griff leave was because he wouldn't go along with the plan of placing an imitation son of his prince on the throne.

[Rill Redthorn]

The piss water baby story is so pathetically unlikely he has to be fooling himself. The whole story depends on The Mountain murdering the prince in a way that makes him unrecognizable, something that couldn't be counted on. Tywin said that they should have just smothered them which is the logical thing to do. The whole thing makes much more sense if they used the opportunity of the baby being unrecognizable to plant an imposter.

Jon thinks he is the prince's son and so does young Griff. The leaders of the Golden Company know better.

The substitution plot would have worked fine even if the baby had been smothered, because it's a *baby* and it's not like they had photos or DNA tests. Fifteen years after the death, who could actually say that the smothered infant was Aegon? Gregor smashing the baby's head was a bonus but it was not in any way required to make the substitution ploy viable.

Look at it this way: If Gregor had just smothered the kid and Tywin had walked in and gone "...That's not Aegon," what would have happened next? Tywin was NEVER going to make a public announcement to the fact that one of the Targaryen kids had survived -- that would doom Robert's reign to a constant parade of pretenders and folk tales, very much as happened with Bonnie Prince Charlie and other "lost heirs" in real life. Look at the way the Anastasia Romanov story held on until we had DNA testing!

Nope, if Tywin had come in and found a dead baby who wasn't Aegon, he would have insisted that everyone hew to the line of "Oh yes, baby Prince Aegon is definitely dead. Nope, no hope of a Targ restoration here! None at all!" and anyone Tywin didn't trust to keep his or her mouth shut about it, Tywin would have killed just to make sure.

And I don't for a second think that Homeless Harry Strickland or any of the other current leaders of the GC give a flying piece of poo about Targs or Blackfyres. They may have started out as a Blackfyre group, but by now they only want what all medieval mercs want -- money for the short term, land for the long term. That's their only interest now, not settling the question of "the red or the black dragon?" after a hundred years.

[Buried Treasure]

I know a lot of folks have spent a ton of time mulling the real or blackfyre argument on Aegon, so hopefully people know this off the tops of their heads.

• Jon Connington obviously thinks that Aegon is real -- his first person motivation is not failing Rhaegar's son, right?
• The Golden Company, though, is joining because they think Aegon is a Blackfyre, right? They were started by Bittersteel and say things to the effect of "there's only one reason why the Golden Company would break a contract."

Did Ilyrio/Varys hire the Golden Company separately and not through Jon Connington? Is it apparent in the chapter that the Golden Company knows to dodge questions of why they broke their contract? I know they all dance around who the boy is.

Yeah Jon C definitely believes Aegon the real deal. That Aegon is really a Blackfyre descendent is one of the more popular theories on the forum - it's proponents by far outnumbers those of us that believe he is a fake of no particular lineage.

Jon C,Varys and the last GC commander (Miles Toyne??) made the secret contact to hire the GC together, presumably just before Jon left the company to 'drink himself to death'. We are told that Toyne only told Stickland of the contract and he only shared that knowledge with the rest of the company when they were waiting near Volantis. Ive not seen a consensus amongst Blackfyre theorists about when they were told if the entire company ( or presumably just the captains believe they are secretly backing a Blackfyre

And I don't for a second think that Homeless Harry Strickland or any of the other current leaders of the GC give a flying piece of poo about Targs or Blackfyres. They may have started out as a Blackfyre group, but by now they only want what all medieval mercs want -- money for the short term, land for the long term. That's their only interest now, not settling the question of "the red or the black dragon?" after a hundred years.

Oh I agree you so much, Strickland himself was only bothered about the GC breaking it's contract - which is I think partly because the honor of the company is tied up in always keeping its contracts and partly because it's a great business model to be reliable when all the other competitors are known to be faithless. Then there are a bunch of non-Westerosi captains, including the spymaster, master of archers and I think paymaster - the idea that they would be loyal to a Blackfyre is ludicrous yet they were part of the discussion of who to back. The rest, whether recent exiles or descendants of the founders gave their reasons for following Aegon to Westeros as seeking revenge or castles, and there is nothing to make me think they might have more idealistic motives.

[Khal Shaggydog]

We also have to keep in mind the "Blackfyres" are still just Targaryens. They are legitimized bastards of the King - they were no longer bastards, and didn't use the name of a new house when fighting their parade of civil wars. All Targaryens.

[Sunrise Nymph]

But we all agree that Aegon (whether Targaryen or Blackfyre or none) -"Young Griff"- is the "Mummer's Dragon" Dany was told of, and that she will see him as fake, right?

[gogorath]

Thanks for the responses. I guess what I am trying to figure out is if JC thinks he's Aegon and the CG thinks he's not the real Aegon, how are Varys/Illyrio managing that issue? Do the GC know not to say something to JC?

[Buried Treasure]

Thanks for the responses. I guess what I am trying to figure out is if JC thinks he's Aegon and the CG thinks he's not the real Aegon, how are Varys/Illyrio managing that issue? Do the GC know not to say something to JC?

My recommendation is don't reconcile the two. Use this as a reason to reject the theory that the GC have been told Aegon is a Blackfyre.

Nevermind Varys and Illyrio managing what the GC tells JC, who is managing what 'the GC' ( the entity) is telling the GC? It is not one entity with a single goal, it is 10,000 individuals of which maybe a dozen to 20 individuals make up the senior captains. Any one individual, if trusted with a secret, could betray that secret if it suited his personal goals.