[Book Spoilers All] Branraven Theory

[Blazfemur]

Ok, so i've posted this in other threads, but I've never actually given it it's own thread. I think it's time I posted a theory I've formed on Bran/Bloodraven.

Ive posted it all over the place, but the basis of my theory is this:

from the moment you even meet bloodraven, what do you see? You see an older gentlement, on a chair, with weirwood roots growing in and among him to power him.

I see, a corpse long since dead, but still very much alive (he's what, exceeding 130 y/o or of the like at this point). I see him chained, and imprisoned, to that throne. As a corpse, i see him bound in that cave, since no undead can enter, it can also be understood, that no undead could leave (i.e., a barrier of sorts).

I see the weirwood roots, that entangle his body, as a form of imprisonment. Bloodraven was put in that cave, he didnt go there. Whether or not whomever did this knew the full extent of Bloodraven's power, we dont know.

Now, all that being said, Bloodraven is connected via his powers to wierwood and thus can see past the cave he's held in. The question of, well, why did he go to Bran in his dreams, why would he just get up and go to Bran, why did a crippled boy, on the back of the simpleton, have to go to him. It makes sense, that that was the extent of his powers, to contact Bran through dreams, if his body was imprisoned in that weirwood.

So Bran sees his visions, collects Hodor, Jojen, and Meera, and heads off to see the three eyed crow beyond the Wall. Much to Bloodraven's appeal. This is his way of finally getting out of that cave. They arrive, and Bloodraven begins teaching Bran how to use his powers. Why? And questioning my theory, why pick a crippled boy, when Hodor is huge and monstrous if utilized the right way.

Well, let's use a Star Wars analogy since May The 4th just happened. If Yoda were to die, and he were to possess someone. Would he possess, Luke Skywalker, who he's trained and is much more akin to "the force," or woud Yoda possess Chewbacca, the giatn monstrous ferocity he is. Clearly, Yoda possesses Luke Skywalker to enhance the abilities he's training him to use.

The same goes for "Why not just possess Bran immediately?" He's opening Bran's eyes, making him stronger. Perhaps, making him stronger, and prepping his body and mind to accept such a sorcerous power that is Bloodraven. He finally got him here, and he's finally going to use that to get out. Remember, why is Bloodraven sitting in that chair, why hasn't he stood up, and why hasnt he left that cave to meet Bran closer to Bran's former habitat. Bran, Jojen, Meera, they never did ask Bloodraven ow he got to that cave, why he left society to get there, and why he has weirwood roots growing throughout his body.

Now, it's up for debate whether or not Coldhands worked with Bloodraven to get them there, them both being members of the Nights Watch. It's up for debate whether Coldhands was helping Bran, or if he was serving a master waiting to be released. With all the powers Bloodraven has, it would make sense if he was "a horror locked away from the world and never to be seen again." Such power to be sealed, not destroyed, if he can be destroyed. Death certainly hasnt claimed him, and he's as conscious as Coldhands is. But that's all heresay, much like this theory in general.

I think it would make for more interesting storytelling, if Bloodraven possesses Bran, and gets unleashed upon the world again. He's openly dead, due to age and deterioration. If theres a wall preventing the dead from entering, it would be logical to assume, that wall is still there and keeping the dead from crossing to leave.

If Bloodraven were to warg Bran against his will, which, the story has made a point to make it an "abomination" whenever Bran wargs into Hodor (he says Hodor struggles him, but then hides himself deep within), then Bloodraven would have a living vessel, and could leave the cave.

Still, Bran cant walk, despite his newly acclaimed powers (and then, enhanced, by Bloodraven's). The idea would be, suddenly, Bloodraven's existence seemingly just dies completely, as his spirit wargs into Bran's body. The only people left to convince are the simpleminded Hodor who wouldnt realize it anyway, and, the tough part, Meera. Jojen has since died, so if there was any "sensing" of Bran being false, it would have died with him since it appears Meera has no real powers at all (aside from her warrior/hunting abilities).

And there you have it. Once Bran is capable enough to handle the immensity that is Bloodraven (through 'training'), Bloodraven wargs Bran, Branraven orders Hodor to pick him up, and him, Hodor, and Meera leave the cave, passing throught he barrier that keeps dead out, and dead in. Bloodraven is free, and unleashed once again to do whatever the fuck he wants.

Now, he might not need Bran after passing that threshhold. After they cross, I would think Bloodraven could exist to possess anyone after that, even now, the stronger, more endurant Hodor, until he gets somewhere to get someone better. He may use Bran's body for his influence though, I'd like to think. Besides, if it's weirwood that kept him there on that throne, there's a weirwood door beneath the Nightfort. Same concept, but this time, he'd need to posses one of the Night's Watch to pass through it.

Or... I could be wrong.

Bloodraven: Ok Bran, ive taught you all you need to know, i wish you luck.

Bran: Ok Brynden. See you around!

Bloodraven: *stays put, and lets events unfold as they do, with zero interference.*

Kinda boring if Bloodraven is just a good guy there to teach Bran and that's it, isnt it?

***ETA: A lot of people have brought up "well, what about the other greenseers? other things he may or may not have warge dinto to leave that cave?"

P.S.- I stand by, thats why he's building Bran up, training him. So Bran's spirit can handle the transition, and accept the magnitude and power that is Bloodraven. You know those bones, and skulls all over the cave? Yeah, possibly failed attempts of taking each one over, maybe? Bran must be prepared first, primed. If he's not strong enough, spiritually, it may come across as a shock, and then Bran becomes another in the pile of bones that are all over that cave to begin with.

That's why, proper precaution, must be taken.

[Fool of a Book]

This is an interesting thought....

All I would say is that BR is "the last greenseer" meaning there were others before him. What happened to them? Couldn't they have just used the same trick with the next in line?

I don't think BR is a good guy, for the record.

[Blazfemur]

This is an interesting thought....

All I would say is that BR is "the last greenseer" meaning there were others before him. What happened to them? Couldn't they have just used the same trick with the next in line?

I don't think BR is a good guy, for the record.

He's still around, isn't he? He still is, the last greenseer, after Jojen. Unless your counting Bran too, and then when theyre one being, they will be the last greenseer.

[Blazfemur]

The greenseers saw the warging of another human being, "an abomination." Because it basically takes advantage of their body against their will, which in itself, is tough if the recipient has a strong spirit. Maybe some existences are the greenseers, maybe some arent (mormonts bird? the tomcat at kings landing? coldhands' elk?)

[veto]

Most of him has gone into the tree ... He has lived beyond his mortal span, and yet he lingers. For us, for you, for the realms of men.

this line has always swayed me from going down the COTF/Bloodraven/Bran are in the evil camp , he lingers around so he could pass on his knowledge to bran . i know its far to straightforward and cheesy , but it all cant be twists and turns .

[Blazfemur]

Most of him has gone into the tree ... He has lived beyond his mortal span, and yet he lingers. For us, for you, for the realms of men.

this line has always swayed me from going down the COTF/Bloodraven/Bran are in the evil camp , he lingers around so he could pass on his knowledge to bran . i know its far to straightforward and cheesy , but it all cant be twists and turns .

and yet we're coming full circle at the same time, For The Realm. those famous words, who else speaks those words, i wonder. Someone else, whose identity can be thrown into question. Someone else, that may have a tie in with Bloodraven's history, i wonder. ;)

[evita mgfs]

The greenseers are separate and apart from MERE WARGS/SKINCHANGERS. Bran and BR are something far more than V6S and Orell.

[Blazfemur]

The greenseers are separate and apart from MERE WARGS/SKINCHANGERS. Bran and BR are something far more than V6S and Orell.

and that's why Bran was chose-ennnnnn. Otherwise Bloodraven would've picked anyone else. It' simply because Bran is better, that he brought him there.

It's all the same reasoning that people that believe Bloodraven is a good guy is, however with a tweest!

[FalseSpring]

If BR wanted to warg out of that cave, Jon should have been his first choice. If he can warg from person to person thereafter, ANYONE would have been his choice. Since bran, a seemingly weak skinchanger/greenseer, can warg into another person's mind, then for sure BR could go into anyone's mind if he wanted to. For some reason I feel like he likes his little tree house, as well as knowing everything that happens through his birds and trees.

Kind of gives new meaning to the term "little birds"

[Blazfemur]

If BR wanted to warg out of that cave, Jon should have been his first choice. If he can warg from person to person thereafter, ANYONE would have been his choice. Since bran, a seemingly weak skinchanger/greenseer, can warg into another person's mind, then for sure BR could go into anyone's mind if he wanted to. For some reason I feel like he likes his little tree house, as well as knowing everything that happens through his birds and trees.

Kind of gives new meaning to the term "little birds"

Ah but that makes for such boring story outcome in his position. Train Bran, let him go, and then what? Just, character dies? Or just lets Bran go, and then he remains in his cave?

I revert back to my earlier post, since Bran is more attune to these powers, Bloodraven specifically picked him, to get out of that cave. At this point, other than being in Bran's dreams, we havent seen Bloodraven warg into anythingthat wasn't already in that cave. While he may be able to see through the weirwood, and channel in bran's dreams, as of yet we havent seen warg/skinchanging from him outside of that barrier.

I'm going to stretch this further, and theorize that his direct warging ability, cannot go beyond that cave as of yet.

The theory stands. :)

[TallTyrion]

I like the idea of BR being a darker character and your theory is a much better dark twist than the whole Jojen paste thing.

[Fool of a Book]

I think BR has warged out of that cave. Anyone ever think what "child of three" means re: Dany? ;)

Also it seems to me that there are the remains of the past greenseers in the cave. I don't have the quotes so I could be wrong... anyway for a man to willingly spend decades turning into a tree, he must have some pretty intense convictions about his position and the importance of it. He must have equally intense convictions about training and indoctrinating (for lack of a better word) the next in line.

[Blazfemur]

I like the idea of BR being a darker character and your theory is a much better dark twist than the whole Jojen paste thing.

Thank you, kind ser. A drink for you the next time we meet.

I think BR has warged out of that cave. Anyone ever think what "child of three" means re: Dany? ;)

Also it seems to me that there are the remains of the past greenseers in the cave. I don't have the quotes so I could be wrong... anyway for a man to willingly spend decades turning into a tree, he must have some pretty intense convictions about his position and the importance of it. He must have equally intense convictions about training and indoctrinating (for lack of a better word) the next in line.

Ahem... werent there all sorts of bones all over the place? Perhaps they were greenseers, that couldnt handle the emphatic power of Bloodraven, and promptly died in the struggle.

I stand by my theory, he's building Bran up, so Bran can handle The Coming.

[Blazfemur]

I think BR has warged out of that cave. Anyone ever think what "child of three" means re: Dany? ;)

Also it seems to me that there are the remains of the past greenseers in the cave. I don't have the quotes so I could be wrong... anyway for a man to willingly spend decades turning into a tree, he must have some pretty intense convictions about his position and the importance of it. He must have equally intense convictions about training and indoctrinating (for lack of a better word) the next in line.

***ETA: A lot of people have brought up "well, what about the other greenseers? other things he may or may not have warge dinto to leave that cave?"

P.S.- I stand by, thats why he's building Bran up, training him. So Bran's spirit can handle the transition, and accept the magnitude and power that is Bloodraven. You know those bones, and skulls all over the cave? Yeah, possibly failed attempts of taking each one over, maybe? Bran must be prepared first, primed. If he's not strong enough, spiritually, it may come across as a shock, and then Bran becomes another in the pile of bones that are all over that cave to begin with.

That's why, proper precaution, must be taken.

[veto]

and yet we're coming full circle at the same time, For The Realm. those famous words, who else speaks those words, i wonder. Someone else, whose identity can be thrown into question. Someone else, that may have a tie in with Bloodraven's history, i wonder. ;)

honestly think varys has no real irons in the main fire , as in he's just playing the game of thrones and not the song of ice and fire

could it not all really be as simple as a fight between the COTF/Firstmen Vs the other's like the storys of old .

[Blazfemur]

Interesting idea that Brynden is bound there. But I don't really see it. For a start, he's not undead that we know of - just really old. That in itself is a good enough reason for him to be in the cave. He's not physically capable of any movement. Secondly, weirwoods are presented as empowering him. He's born of a castle with the largest weirwood south of the Wall, his colouration is reminiscent of a weirwood, and he uses a weirwood bow - along with his own company of archers.

In honesty, I don't really know what evidence you're basing this on. I'd go with ''crackpot'' on this one.

Dude, he's a withering corpse, and 125-126 years old (born 175AD, joffrey died 300AD turn of new year), with tree roots growing in and out of his body and openly exposed skull. He's alive? Really?

The only other person to come close was Maester Aemon, who was around 100 before he died, and even then was blind, deteriorating, and had the best care the wall could offer.

He's not physically capable of any movement because the roots are weaved in and out of his body, on that throne. He physically cant get up.

Oh no, he's dead alright. And him being dead is the primary reason he cant escape that barrier.

While I fully realize and accept this theory as my own crackpot invention, he's albino, not a weirwood, and his weapon is made of weirwood, it's not blatantly chaining him to a piece of furniture.

[Onna Lewyys]

So you don't believe the theory that BR has been warging Mormont's raven this whole time? That bird has said and done some pretty strange things.

[Blazfemur]

So you don't believe the theory that BR has been warging Mormont's raven this whole time? That bird has said and done some pretty strange things.

He has indeed, but much like im not a believer that every other person is a Targaryen, im also a firm believer, that every other animal in this series isn't Bloodraven either. Every other plot, every other scheme, wasn't set into motion by Bloodraven either.

It's someone else. It's not Bloodraven, in mormont's bird.

Taking over an animal or beast, that requires direct concentration within direct vicinity, it seems.

Using this logic, while supporting mine, he hasnt warged anything that wasnt already in that cave.

He "leaves" the cave, through being connected to weirwood roots, thus connecting him to the trees.

He can "see" through the trees, as he's teaching Bran, yet his spirit and body remain in the cave.

You cant dematerialize in the tree, then re-materialize on the other side. it's not a teleportation system, you know?

[mindchap]

Nice, but that's not the moment we meet Bloodraven. He's featured elsewhere and is a fairly decent guy.

[Blazfemur]

Nice, but that's not the moment we meet Bloodraven. He's featured elsewhere and is a fairly decent guy.

D&E?