Diminutive size + mystic abilities = ...?

[Syphon the Sanitator]

So I was reading through The WoIaF and something came to my attention.

The chapter detailing the arrival of the Andals to Westeros gave me an interesting thought.

Here:

Some few children may have fled to
the Neck, where there was safety amidst the
bogs and crannogs, but if they did, no trace of
them remains.

What if they interbred in the Neck?

The crannogmen we know are uniformly small. One of the three we know has a gift. They are all described as fairly small. For instance, see Jojen's description:

Jojen is short and slim with unusually deep green eyes, wearing green-colored clothing

Also see Meera's description:

As is typical of crannogmen, Meera is short and slim. She has long brown hair and green eyes.

Then there's their father's description:

Howland is a small man,like all crannogmen [..]

Neither the First Men nor the Andals were described as being particularily short. Then what else does that leave? That's right, the Children. My theory is that the crannogmen are the result of the Children inbreeding with the locals of the Neck that survived the sundering of the Arm that caused the flooding and creation of what is now the Neck.

[TheSovereignGrave]

You'll actually find quite a few people on the forums who believe that the First Men interbred with the Children. Especially when it comes to the Crannogmen, I believe.

I'm willing to believe it, mostly because abilities such as warging don't seem to be something you learn, but rather something in the blood. And I don't see why the First Men would've been able to be wargs and Greenseers prior to crossing the Arm, so those abilities have to come from somewhere.

[Syphon the Sanitator]

It would make sense if they (C + 1st M) interbred, I agree.

Let's take a look at where wargs live: In the North and beyond the Wall. That is, wargs we know of.

From another passage in The WoIaF I learned that people who resisted the Andals went into hiding.
One group went into the wild beyond the Wall, becoming the Wildlings. The other became the clansmen of the Vale mountains.

It's not inconceivable that the Stark children, none of which have Andal features, are Wargs because of their 1st M ancestry. If anything, their entire connection to the Weirwood only strengthens my belief.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

Yes, quite likely.

It would make sense if they (C + 1st M) interbred, I agree.

Let's take a look at where wargs live: In the North and beyond the Wall. That is, wargs we know of.

From another passage in The WoIaF I learned that people who resisted the Andals went into hiding.
One group went into the wild beyond the Wall, becoming the Wildlings. The other became the clansmen of the Vale mountains.

It's not inconceivable that the Stark children, none of which have Andal features, are Wargs because of their 1st M ancestry. If anything, their entire connection to the Weirwood only strengthens my belief.

Here you are wrong though. The people who resisted the Andals went into hiding only in the Vale. Elsewhere, they actually won. And still make up the majority of the society, including the ruling Houses.

By the way, the Stark children have Andal features - at least if you consider Tully features Andal features. Which may be weird, because the Tullys are originally First Men.

[TheSovereignGrave]

It would make sense if they (C + 1st M) interbred, I agree.

Let's take a look at where wargs live: In the North and beyond the Wall. That is, wargs we know of.

From another passage in The WoIaF I learned that people who resisted the Andals went into hiding.

One group went into the wild beyond the Wall, becoming the Wildlings. The other became the clansmen of the Vale mountains.

It's not inconceivable that the Stark children, none of which have Andal features, are Wargs because of their 1st M ancestry. If anything, their entire connection to the Weirwood only strengthens my belief.

The Starks probably got the warging ability when the King of Winter killed the Warg King and took his daughters as prizes.

And the North isn't the only place you have skinchangers. House Farwynd and House Crane are also reputed to be skinchangers, and they're in the Iron Isles and the Reach, respectively.

[Syphon the Sanitator]

I disagree there, Blue Eyes. VERY Blue Eyes.

The Andals never won in the North at all. See this quote from The WoIaF:

The clans of the Mountains of the
Moon are clearly descendants of the
First Men who did not bend the knee
to the Andals and so were driven into
the mountains. Furthermore, there are
similarities in their customs to the
customs of the wildlings beyond the
Wall—such as bride-stealing, a
stubborn desire to rule themselves, and
the like—and the wildlings are
indisputably descended from the First
Men.

The Starks probably got the warging ability when the King of Winter killed the Warg King and took his daughters as prizes.

And the North isn't the only place you have skinchangers. House Farwynd and House Crane are also reputed to be skinchangers, and they're in the Iron Isles and the Reach, respectively.

The Warg King came from behind the Wall. Which makes him a Wildling, a First Man. Which strengthens my theory.

House Farwynd was settled by First Men too, even if their own legends say they weren't. As for house Crane, they are in the Reach as you say. They present an interesting conundrum. We have Andal chivalrous codes that reign there, this is true. But you forget one thing: The Reach also borders on the Isle of Faces.

[TheSovereignGrave]

I disagree. The Andals never won in the North at all. See this quote from The WoIaF:

He never said that. He said that in most of Westeros the First Men weren't supplanted by the Andals as they were in the Vale. They integrated with the Andals instead of being subjugated by them. Though I believe the Riverlands were also conquered by the Andals as well, even though there's still a lot of First Men houses there.

[Syphon the Sanitator]

I disagree there, Blue Eyes. VERY Blue Eyes.

The Andals never won in the North at all. See this quote from The WoIaF:

The clans of the Mountains of the
Moon are clearly descendants of the
First Men who did not bend the knee
to the Andals and so were driven into
the mountains. Furthermore, there are
similarities in their customs to the
customs of the wildlings beyond the
Wall—such as bride-stealing, a
stubborn desire to rule themselves, and
the like—and the wildlings are
indisputably descended from the First
Men.

The Starks probably got the warging ability when the King of Winter killed the Warg King and took his daughters as prizes.

And the North isn't the only place you have skinchangers. House Farwynd and House Crane are also reputed to be skinchangers, and they're in the Iron Isles and the Reach, respectively.

The Warg King came from behind the Wall. Which makes him a Wildling, a First Man. Which strengthens my theory.

House Farwynd was settled by First Men too, even if their own legends say they weren't. As for house Crane, they are in the Reach as you say. They present an interesting conundrum. We have Andal chivalrous codes that reign there, this is true. But you forget one thing: The Reach also borders on the Isle of Faces.

[Syphon the Sanitator]

I disagree there, Blue Eyes. VERY Blue Eyes.

The Andals never won in the North at all. See this quote from The WoIaF:

The clans of the Mountains of the
Moon are clearly descendants of the
First Men who did not bend the knee
to the Andals and so were driven into
the mountains. Furthermore, there are
similarities in their customs to the
customs of the wildlings beyond the
Wall—such as bride-stealing, a
stubborn desire to rule themselves, and
the like—and the wildlings are
indisputably descended from the First
Men.

The Starks probably got the warging ability when the King of Winter killed the Warg King and took his daughters as prizes.

And the North isn't the only place you have skinchangers. House Farwynd and House Crane are also reputed to be skinchangers, and they're in the Iron Isles and the Reach, respectively.

The Warg King came from behind the Wall. Which makes him a Wildling, a First Man. Which strengthens my theory.

House Farwynd was settled by First Men too, even if their own legends say they weren't. As for house Crane, they are in the Reach as you say. They present an interesting conundrum. We have Andal chivalrous codes that reign there, this is true. But you forget one thing: The Reach also borders on the Isle of Faces.

[TheSovereignGrave]

The Warg King came from behind the Wall. Which makes him a Wildling, a First Man. Which strengthens my theory.

House Farwynd was settled by First Men too, even if their own legends say they weren't. As for house Crane, they are in the Reach as you say. They present an interesting conundrum. We have Andal chivalrous codes that reign there, this is true. But you forget one thing: The Reach also borders on the Isle of Faces.

The Warg King was one of the Petty Kings in the North, ruling the area around Sea Dragon Point. He was a Northman, not a Wildling.

And I am aware that the Iron Isles were settled by First Men, and the thing about House Crane isn't a conundrum at all. House Crane was, according to legend, founded by one of the daughters of Garth Greenhand. They were a House of First Men, like many southron Houses. I think you're overestimating the Andals; they didn't come in and replace everyone south of the Neck, you know. And anyway, the point I was trying to make was that there were reputed skinchangers outside of the North.

[Bright Blue Eyes]

I disagree there, Blue Eyes. VERY Blue Eyes.

The Andals never won in the North at all. See this quote from The WoIaF:

I know. I said that. I said the Andals won almost nowhere. Gardener, Durrandon, they all won. Lannister, intermarried. Other First Men Houses: Royce, Tully, Blackwood, Bracken

The Warg King came from behind the Wall. Which makes him a Wildling, a First Man. Which strengthens my theory.

Nope. Sea Dragon Point.

House Farwynd was settled by First Men too, even if their own legends say they weren't. As for house Crane, they are in the Reach as you say. They present an interesting conundrum. We have Andal chivalrous codes that reign there, this is true. But you forget one thing: The Reach also borders on the Isle of Faces.

The Ironborn are First Men. Originally at least.

He never said that. He said that in most of Westeros the First Men weren't supplanted by the Andals as they were in the Vale. They integrated with the Andals instead of being subjugated by them. Though I believe the Riverlands were also conquered by the Andals as well, even though there's still a lot of First Men houses there.

For a very short time, and the next King of the Rivers was a Blackwood-Bracken bastard. Both First Men Houses.

[TheSovereignGrave]

For a very short time, and the next King of the Rivers was a Blackwood-Bracken bastard. Both First Men Houses.

But after them was House Teague, who were Andals. And for a lot of the time it was divided and without a single ruler. I suppose the Riverlands are kind of complicated since they kinda were both conquered by the Andals in a lot of areas but the First Men integrated in a lot of regions as well.