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#1 Daniel Snow

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 09:23 AM

Just a very simple question.

If people still believe tommen is baratheon then where are his bannermen? why is the city full of Lannisters and Tyrells but no Baratheons?

After Tywins death who is looking after everything owned by Lannisters? (gold mines)
not cersie obviously, nor jamie or tyrion, kevan is hand until end of ADWD.

The lannisters sent men to the wall after stannis went there, so they could look like they were helping the realm too. they never turned up in jons POV??

there's lots of others who just go missing or who should be there or have an effect but these three really annoyed me.

Edited by Daniel Snow, 19 May 2013 - 09:24 AM.


#2 Gingerchu

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 09:29 AM

The Lannisters were going to send 100 men to the wall with Kettleblack weren't they?

A whole load of men went back to Casterly Rock with Kevan and a dead Tywin, Daven Lannister is warden of the west and that covers the Westerlands and mines

If anyone is suspected to be alive or missing they are hiding in the neck with Howland Reed

#3 The Dornishman's Wife

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 09:32 AM

If people still believe tommen is baratheon then where are his bannermen? why is the city full of Lannisters and Tyrells but no Baratheons?


I'm not sure how to respond to that... but the only Baratheons left are Stannis and Shireen. Or do you generally mean knights and nobles from the Stormlands? In which case the answer is: Look closely, they're there. Some of the noble Stormlanders died, some went with Stannis, some are probably sitting around at home happy that they have been pardoned and not about to risk stirring again, and some fight for Tommen now (e.g. remember the Holy Hundred).

After Tywins death who is looking after everything owned by Lannisters? (gold mines)
not cersie obviously, nor jamie or tyrion, kevan is hand until end of ADWD.


Before his death Tywin wasn't personally overseeing the mines, he was off being Hand in King's Landing and left the control over the mines in the hands of family members, castellans, stewards etc... I assume they haven't stopped managing them in the Lannister name just because Tywin is dead.

The lannisters sent men to the wall after stannis went there, so they could look like they were helping the realm too. they never turned up in jons POV??


Cersei planned to send men there, but afaik, no men were sent after her plan with Kettleblack went wahoonie-shaped. So it's not overly surprising that noone turned up.

Edited by The Dornishman's Wife, 19 May 2013 - 09:38 AM.


#4 Leap

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 10:03 AM

Well, Daven Lannister is Warden of the West - but generally a lord leaves a lot of the day to day logistics to stewards like Vayon Poole. No doubt there is a castellan, steward and maester at Caterly Rock looking after it while there is no lord present.


As for the Baratheon bannermen:

- House Caron, Lord Bryce was slain at the Blackwater fighting for Stannis, he fought for Renly first. Since he was the last male true born Caron, the Caron lands now belong to House Foote of Nightsong( House Foote are a Westerland house originally)
- House Swann, Lord Guilian took no part and his son Donnel are at Stonehelm, Balon is in Dorne.
- House Dondarrion, presumably defunct now Beric is gone.
- House Grandisen, Lord Hugh is too old to fight and presumably declared for Joffrey, but Ser Narbert fights for Stannis.
- House Cafferen, yet to come into this story although the only known Cafferen died in RR.
- House Morrigen, fighting for Stannis.
- House Hasty, the only known Hasty - Ser Bonifer the Good fought for Renly but is now at Harrenhal with his Holy Hundred
- House Estermont, Lord is in KL, some of his younger relatives fighting for Stan the man
- House Selmy, apart from Barristan they are not present
- House Tarth, Seleyn does not appear to have taken part, obviously Brienne is doing her shiz elsewhere
- House Fell, Lord Fell died on the way to WF with Stannis
- House Trant, Only Meryn is mentioned

Most of the other houses aren't really mentioned, and most are with Stannis.



#5 NomadicDirewolf

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 02:49 PM

Just a very simple question.

If people still believe tommen is baratheon then where are his bannermen? why is the city full of Lannisters and Tyrells but no Baratheons?

Most of the stormland men are either dead, with stannis or gone home. There are still a few though with the lannister and tyrell armies knocking about, for example red ronnet connington is knocking about with jaime in aFfC and Connington is a stormland house. By and large though, the baratheon men supported either stannis or renly and didnt believe that cersei's children were baratheons

After Tywins death who is looking after everything owned by Lannisters? (gold mines)
not cersie obviously, nor jamie or tyrion, kevan is hand until end of ADWD.


mentioned at least once in aFfC to be Damion Lannister, with Daven Lannister being named Warden of the West

The lannisters sent men to the wall after stannis went there, so they could look like they were helping the realm too. they never turned up in jons POV??

well obviously that plan went to down the drain when osney, who was supposed to lead them, told the high septon about the things she'd done, cersei no longer regent, no more plan

#6 Yukle

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 06:49 PM

Well, Daven Lannister is Warden of the West - but generally a lord leaves a lot of the day to day logistics to stewards like Vayon Poole. No doubt there is a castellan, steward and maester at Caterly Rock looking after it while there is no lord present.


As for the Baratheon bannermen:

- House Caron, Lord Bryce was slain at the Blackwater fighting for Stannis, he fought for Renly first. Since he was the last male true born Caron, the Caron lands now belong to House Foote of Nightsong( House Foote are a Westerland house originally)
- House Swann, Lord Guilian took no part and his son Donnel are at Stonehelm, Balon is in Dorne.
- House Dondarrion, presumably defunct now Beric is gone.
- House Grandisen, Lord Hugh is too old to fight and presumably declared for Joffrey, but Ser Narbert fights for Stannis.
- House Cafferen, yet to come into this story although the only known Cafferen died in RR.
- House Morrigen, fighting for Stannis.
- House Hasty, the only known Hasty - Ser Bonifer the Good fought for Renly but is now at Harrenhal with his Holy Hundred
- House Estermont, Lord is in KL, some of his younger relatives fighting for Stan the man
- House Selmy, apart from Barristan they are not present
- House Tarth, Seleyn does not appear to have taken part, obviously Brienne is doing her shiz elsewhere
- House Fell, Lord Fell died on the way to WF with Stannis
- House Trant, Only Meryn is mentioned

Most of the other houses aren't really mentioned, and most are with Stannis.


How very astute of you to keep track of all that! /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

There's also the fact that the Baratheon House doesn't have a huge amount of bannermen, nor would it being much more recent than other Great Houses. Robert didn't secure the throne because he had the largest army, and in fact it seems that Jon Arryn's armies were much larger. But it seems that they picked Robert due to his ancestry and to help with any legal issues in having a non-Targaryen succeed. Admittedly, Renly was right when he pointed out that Robert's warhammer was his claim, not his blood, but it's the reason they went with Robert and not, for instance, Jon Arryn.

#7 mrunderhill

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 07:00 PM

How very astute of you to keep track of all that! /smile.png' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

There's also the fact that the Baratheon House doesn't have a huge amount of bannermen, nor would it being much more recent than other Great Houses. Robert didn't secure the throne because he had the largest army, and in fact it seems that Jon Arryn's armies were much larger. But it seems that they picked Robert due to his ancestry and to help with any legal issues in having a non-Targaryen succeed. Admittedly, Renly was right when he pointed out that Robert's warhammer was his claim, not his blood, but it's the reason they went with Robert and not, for instance, Jon Arryn.

Robert was also the best general amongst them, the best warrior and by far the most charismatic. Everyone knew that if he died the rebellion would end. Even before his claim, Robert was the key to the rebellion.

#8 Ser Ted Snark

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 07:07 PM

Hi everyone, my first post!

Robert was also the best general amongst them, the best warrior and by far the most charismatic. Everyone knew that if he died the rebellion would end. Even before his claim, Robert was the key to the rebellion.


I do agree with this, but wasn't Robert put on the throne because of his Targ blood?

#9 mrunderhill

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Posted 19 May 2013 - 07:11 PM

Hi everyone, my first post!



I do agree with this, but wasn't Robert put on the throne because of his Targ blood?

Pretty much, but he was the focal point of the rebellion before that. If you bar Aerys and all his descendants from the succession then Robert is the legal king anyway. Aerion Brightflame is the legal precedent for this happening in the past.

#10 Ours if the Fury

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Posted 20 May 2013 - 05:31 AM

Every body has gone home or is dead or soon will be the war is at a supposed close so no one preparing for another war