Bloodraven's Ravens

[mindchap]

In the Bran chapters of DwD Bloodraven mentions that when a warg, and I know some prefer skinchanger but that gets hard as hell to type out, anyway when a warg uses an animal it leaves an imprint behind so that a piece of that warg stays with them. Since Bloodraven seems fond of the ravens, maybe all of these theories about him warging Mormont's raven aren't so much him personally but that little piece of himself that has been left behind, the same could be said for the murder that travels with Coldhands, I mean that many wild ravens that know how to speak seems a bit of a stretch and even though Bloodraven is good, I doubt he could warg a tree full of ravens all at the same time.

I personally think that Bloodraven has connections to at least some animals all over the world but really have not found any proof to support it other than the chapter in GoT when he shows Bran all the things that are happening all over the world. I tend to think that they are birds because there are a few places where birds are mentioned seemingly out of the blue, and birds would be the most ideal for seeing Cat and Ser Rodrick on the ship on the way to King's Landing.

Anyone who is rereading that happens to come across anything that might suggest something like this please let me know or if you come across something that totally blows it out of the water that's cool too. I know pretty much anything that happens in front of a Weirwood is Bran and BR territory but that doesn't explain all the rest. Any help, comments, or even complaints would be greatly appreciated.

[Frey-A-La-Mode]

In the Bran chapters of DwD Bloodraven mentions that when a warg, and I know some prefer skinchanger but that gets hard as hell to type out

Just as a small note of clarification, the term warg only applies to people who can take over the minds of dogs, wolves, or direwolves, whereas a skinchanger can take over the bodies of other animals. So a warg is a skinchanger, but a skinchanger isn't necessarily a warg.

Also it seems that there's precedence for controlling more than one animal at once: Varamyr Sixskins. So someone as powerful as Bloodraven could probably control multiple ravens at once, though I would expect they would have to be in the same general area. It wouldn't be fair if he could simultaneously control a wolf in the North and an eagle in the South.

[mindchap]

Just as a small note of clarification, the term warg only applies to people who can take over the minds of dogs, wolves, or direwolves, whereas a skinchanger can take over the bodies of other animals. So a warg is a skinchanger, but a skinchanger isn't necessarily a warg.

Also it seems that there's precedence for controlling more than one animal at once: Varamyr Sixskins. So someone as powerful as Bloodraven could probably control multiple ravens at once, though I would expect they would have to be in the same general area. It wouldn't be fair if he could simultaneously control a wolf in the North and an eagle in the South.

I know but typing skinchanger, skinchanging, and skinchanged, just doesn't roll off the fingers as well as warg, warging and warged.

[Inquisitor Glokta]

Just as a small note of clarification, the term warg only applies to people who can take over the minds of dogs, wolves, or direwolves, whereas a skinchanger can take over the bodies of other animals. So a warg is a skinchanger, but a skinchanger isn't necessarily a warg.

Also it seems that there's precedence for controlling more than one animal at once: Varamyr Sixskins. So someone as powerful as Bloodraven could probably control multiple ravens at once, though I would expect they would have to be in the same general area. It wouldn't be fair if he could simultaneously control a wolf in the North and an eagle in the South.

Yet I too, don't bother writing out the additional 7 every time I'm referring to skinchangers, when warg means basically the same and is way shorter.

[ForestChild]

Also it seems that there's precedence for controlling more than one animal at once: Varamyr Sixskins. So someone as powerful as Bloodraven could probably control multiple ravens at once, though I would expect they would have to be in the same general area. It wouldn't be fair if he could simultaneously control a wolf in the North and an eagle in the South.

Bloodraven has been alive for 125 years. That's a long time for him to hone his skills, I wouldn't doubt his skinchanging ability it's probably unparalleled.

[Frey-A-La-Mode]

Bloodraven has been alive for 125 years. That's a long time for him to hone his skills, I wouldn't doubt his skinchanging ability it's probably unparalleled.

That's all well and good, but I know that GRRM hates when stories use Deus Ex Machina, and I feel like that Bloodraven has the potential to be one such. I just mean, for example, it wouldn't be fair if he could simultaneously control all the animals in Westeros. Still, you're right, his powers do seem to be unparalleled, and he HAS had a lot of time to practice.

[mindchap]

The biggest thing that puzzles me is the dragons stirring in Asshai and the Dothraki mountain. All the rest could be tied to ravens but I read and reread all through Dany's chapters when they were at Vaes Dothrak and could not find a raven or bird of any kind anywhere in there. That's mainly what got me wondering about other birds or even other animals. The only thing that stood out in Vaes Dothrak is that one of the crones was one-eyed but I know that shouldn't have anything to do with it.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Speaking of Bloodraven and other animals, I noticed something that might be completely nothing on my first read of the Kingsmoot chapter:

"Balon is dead... but an iron king shall rise again, to sit upon the Seastone Chair and rule the isles.”

“A king shall rise!” they answered. “He shall rise!”

“He shall. He must.” Aeron’s voice thundered like the waves. “But who? Who shall sit in Balon’s place? Who shall rule these holy isles? Is he here among us now?” The priest spread his hands wide. “Who shall be king over us?”

A seagull screamed back at him. The crowd began to stir, like men waking from a dream.

Soon enough the cries of “Gylbert! Gylbert King!” faded away to silence. The gull screamed loudly above them, and landed atop one of Nagga’s ribs as the Lord of the Lonely Light made his way back down the hill.

“Who shall rule the ironborn?” Aeron Damphair called again. “Who shall be king over us?”

Men looked at one another. Some looked at Euron, some at Victarion, a few at Asha. Waves broke green and white against the longships. The gull cried once more, a raucous scream, forlorn. “Make your claim, Victarion,” the Merlyn called. “Let us have done with this mummer’s farce.”

*dragonhorn gets blown*

The hornblower’s breath failed at last. He staggered and almost fell. The priest saw Orkwood of Orkmont catch him by one arm to hold him up, whilst Left-Hand Lucas Codd took the twisted black horn from his hands. A thin wisp of smoke was rising from the horn, and the priest saw blood and blisters upon the lips of the man who’d sounded it. The bird on his chest was bleeding too.

Euron Greyjoy climbed the hill slowly, with every eye upon him. Above the gull screamed and screamed again.

[daario's man]

Speaking of Bloodraven and other animals, I noticed something that might be completely nothing on my first read of the Kingsmoot chapter:

Interesting.

[Crannogman Pride]

That's all well and good, but I know that GRRM hates when stories use Deus Ex Machina, and I feel like that Bloodraven has the potential to be one such. I just mean, for example, it wouldn't be fair if he could simultaneously control all the animals in Westeros. Still, you're right, his powers do seem to be unparalleled, and he HAS had a lot of time to practice.

Bloodraven and Bran might start to seem overpowered, but I bet the true enemy is a little tougher than we give them credit for. We can expect things to get more epic.

So in that light, I see nothing wrong with Bran's being capable of controlling many disparate animals simultaneously. Bloodraven controlling a ton of ravens seems right up his alley. A thousand eyes would not be useful if you couldn't control them simultaneously to some extent. Imagine dispatching bird spies that keep wandering off when you're flying the other ones. Useless.Even Varamyr constantly held his bear in check, who would have loved to kill him. And varamyr is a weaker skinchanger than Jon, and I'd say Jon is weaker than Bran and BR

[Rahgh Neqaj]

Speaking of Bloodraven and other animals, I noticed something that might be completely nothing on my first read of the Kingsmoot chapter:

Nice one. Though I'd rather place the sea gull with the Storm God than the Drowned God. And I doubt that Bloodraven would have chosen Euron if he was controlling that gull. (He probably wasn't.)

Having said that, I am not very fond of sea gulls, having them and the racket they cause all over the town where I live. They just seem to be the kind of animal that's set to drive you mad without having the cute looks of a kitten as compensation.

[Rahgh Neqaj]

[...]A thousand eyes would not be useful if you couldn't control them simultaneously to some extent.[...]

The thousand eyes are probably not to be understood literally. Just imagine you'd have to process visual and audio information gathered by 500 ravens (= 1000 eyes) simultaneously. Either it adds up to a lot of static or you go bonkers.

With simultaneous control I'd rather expect that the skinchanger/warg imprints some rules, tasks and triggers into the animal. The animal can then work on the tasks automatically using its own instincts, intelligence and the imprinted rules and whenever something special occurs, a trigger notifies the skindchanger/warg of the problem so that they can warg into the animal again and take direct control.

[Ghost's Shadow]

Nice one. Though I'd rather place the sea gull with the Storm God than the Drowned God. And I doubt that Bloodraven would have chosen Euron if he was controlling that gull. (He probably wasn't.)

No one has said that Bloodraven chose Euron? If that one is pointing to someone being King, it's Jon. :lol:

[Ghost's Shadow]

The thousand eyes are probably not to be understood literally. Just imagine you'd have to process visual and audio information gathered by 500 ravens (= 1000 eyes) simultaneously. Either it adds up to a lot of static or you go bonkers.

“And the ravens?” asked Jaime. “Where are they?”

“They come at dusk and roost all night. Hundreds of them. They cover the tree like black leaves, every limb and every branch. They have been coming for thousands of years. How or why, no man can say, yet the tree draws them every night.”

I take it (my spec) that Bloodraven grew up at Raventree Hall for a while and went to court afterwards, when he already was skinchanging into ravens.

If being a greenseer gives you an extra boost in skinchanging, he might have started doing it to shut them up. :lol:

[Crannogman Pride]

The thousand eyes are probably not to be understood literally. Just imagine you'd have to process visual and audio information gathered by 500 ravens (= 1000 eyes) simultaneously. Either it adds up to a lot of static or you go bonkers.

With simultaneous control I'd rather expect that the skinchanger/warg imprints some rules, tasks and triggers into the animal. The animal can then work on the tasks automatically using its own instincts, intelligence and the imprinted rules and whenever something special occurs, a trigger notifies the skindchanger/warg of the problem so that they can warg into the animal again and take direct control.

That's possible. But I would guess it's not so simple. The greenseers can see all kinds of things simultaneously. Things from all over in space and time. Simultaneous events, the perception of time...for a greenseer our limitations probably mean nothing. A normal person would go bonkers, that's why wirewood paste isn't a party drug