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The "Fall" of the Nightwatch


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#1 OberynBlackfyre

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:24 PM

Throughout the series we have heard tales of the White Walkers, all pretty much ending with "as long as the Wall stands and the men of the NIghtwatch stay true, they cannot pass."

We have come to think that of course that means that the NIghtwatch has to be there to stop them, but when we saw the Blackgate at the NIghtfort, we know that it could have more magical purposes than just an oath.


Which is why I think that what is going to "break the camels back" per say is that the Nightwatch conspired to kill its Lord Commander, twice now. If there is any symbology with that, I think it shows the fall of the NIghtwatch as of course the Kings/Queens men and wildings that are there will detain if not kill those who stabbed Jon, and then probably cause the Nightwatch to turn in on itself.....this I feel marks the "fall" of the Nightswatch as the men did not stay "true".

The Wall will physically detour the White Walkers but I feel that after this event, whatever magic that warded them from crossing will be broken by this magical "breach of contract" and then therefore will allow to pass, albeit slowly or possibly through (or under?) the water.

#2 Eli Stark

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:45 PM

If all the bizarre stuff that went down under the Night's King didn't break the "spells", not sure this would either.

#3 Northbound

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:46 PM

Agreed, whole heartedly. I think, not only has the NW become a shell of its former self. But the entire realm of man. Thus giving the Others the chance they need. The members of the NW, that betrayed two LCs in under a three year span, was the straw that broke the camels back.

#4 Stan the Man

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:48 PM

Agreed, whole heartedly. I think, not only has the NW become a shell of its former self. But the entire realm of man. Thus giving the Others the chance they need. The members of the NW, that betrayed two LCs in under a three year span, was the straw that broke the camels back.

Yup, at that point the NW went from downward spiral to full on plummet in unredeemable dishonour.

#5 Northbound

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:53 PM

Interesting thought though. How would Jon feel, if his resurrection happens right at the very moment the Wall falls down on it's self? I don't know if it would be linked. But Jon, being who he is would see it that way and be filled with guilt.

#6 OberynBlackfyre

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 07:53 PM

If all the bizarre stuff that went down under the Night's King didn't break the "spells", not sure this would either.


mmm but see The White Walkers were already involved with that as NK was married to a White Walker, thus proving that a White Walker at that point (the state the NW was in) COULD pass through the Wall. at that time however, it was only one White Walker and the NIghtwatch reformed itself

#7 three-eyed monkey

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 08:05 PM

And didn't Ned always say that a wall was only as good as the men that held it or something like that? (Ahem, by always I mean at least once.)

#8 CrowsBeforeHoes

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 08:24 PM

I like this thread. I never put a pattern to two LC assassinations. And this was obviously a long time coming. The North alone could not sustain the Watch. Even with The Lord of Winterfell's support and his brother as First Ranger could they reverse this downward spiral. I believe that they had planned to resettle the Gift, but didn't have the manpower. Jon's actions were helping, but general with any radical reform things gets worse before they get better. But maybe he should've tread a little more carefully. I'd like to think Ned getting sent to the Wall after GoT might've helped, but he would be too traditional to the things that Jon saw were necessary. Another angle that might be interesting is the Tully household men just sent North to join the NW, arriving to a broken organization.

#9 Illusion

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 08:37 PM

Could possibly mean that until ALL of the men of the NW turn against defending the Wall.....then the Wall remains? Isn't there always that tricky interpretation that as long as one man holds true then the cause remains? Edited for my previously poor grammar...this may be a long night for me then....

Edited by Illusion, 12 July 2013 - 08:39 PM.


#10 Lord Damian

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 08:45 PM

The others seem to be gaining strength with the corrosion and corruption of the Nights watch. I assume there was thousands of Nights watch in the "black" when the Night's King took power, with all of the fortesses occupied. I wonder if all of the watch was with him or did they fight each other. Anyways, the white walkers seem to have been around for a while longer after the Victory in the battle of Dawn than the "others" aka The creators of the white walkers but we need more info on this as we have not found anything more than sam Tarly has in the cellar of Castle Black.

#11 The Crow

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Posted 12 July 2013 - 08:52 PM

The wall will never fall! What is a wall that can fall which is what a wall is not meant to do, u know, fall!

#12 OberynBlackfyre

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 07:51 PM

The others seem to be gaining strength with the corrosion and corruption of the Nights watch. I assume there was thousands of Nights watch in the "black" when the Night's King took power, with all of the fortesses occupied. I wonder if all of the watch was with him or did they fight each other. Anyways, the white walkers seem to have been around for a while longer after the Victory in the battle of Dawn than the "others" aka The creators of the white walkers but we need more info on this as we have not found anything more than sam Tarly has in the cellar of Castle Black.


yeah exactly. I think that if the organization as a majority becomes corrupt, then the NIghtswatch is not necessarily being "true". It could many interpretations, but I feel that Cotter Pyke and Eastwatch are going to get decimated at Hardhome, and that would only leave Castle Black plus Shadow Tower, which I believe some ppl from the Shadow Tower could be in league with the coo to take out Jon....thus leaving it open for the White Walkers to cross

#13 mindchap

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:10 PM

yeah exactly. I think that if the organization as a majority becomes corrupt, then the NIghtswatch is not necessarily being "true". It could many interpretations, but I feel that Cotter Pyke and Eastwatch are going to get decimated at Hardhome, and that would only leave Castle Black plus Shadow Tower, which I believe some ppl from the Shadow Tower could be in league with the coo to take out Jon....thus leaving it open for the White Walkers to cross

You may be right about the Shadow Tower, considering that's where Qorin was from and I'm sure they know by now that Jon killed him, if they turn on Castle Black it could easily turn into a NW civil war, the Others would only have to wait until they have nearly killed each other off.

#14 OberynBlackfyre

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:34 PM

You may be right about the Shadow Tower, considering that's where Qorin was from and I'm sure they know by now that Jon killed him, if they turn on Castle Black it could easily turn into a NW civil war, the Others would only have to wait until they have nearly killed each other off.


yep, plus I think there were others who were possibly cronies of Slynt/Thorne that Jon sent to the ST.......but besides the civil war, you also have to remember the queen/king's men and wilding that are still there, who will probably give the black brothers a trial/straight up kill them...if the NW tried to war with them, they'd be decimated...leaving the WW only Stannis' men and the wildings to oppose them

#15 Brother Walfrid

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Posted 16 July 2013 - 08:51 PM

When Sam reads up on the history of the Watch, we discover that guarding the realms of men hasn't always been the priority. There's been all out war between factions of the Watch, as well as attempted invasions of the lands to the south. I'm sure Jon and Mormont aren't the only two Lord Commanders to face assassination attempts by their men.I'm of the opinion that this is in fact the first time in generations that the Watch is actually living up to it's ideals, even if their is a bit of violent disagreement about the methodology.

#16 TheTowerOfJoy

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 02:05 PM

I don't think the assassinations have anything to do with it, other than weakening the Night's Watch.

#17 Squarely Rooted

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 02:11 PM

NIghtwatch


http://www.4thletter.../nightwatch.jpg

#18 joluoto

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Posted 17 July 2013 - 04:14 PM

The Wall will fall, but the Watch will live on. Someone must lead the fight against the Others.