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About OberynBlackfyre

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    The Starcrow of House Dayne
  • Birthday 04/01/1989

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  1. I would say yes only because essentially NONE of the Houses keep a standing army. All of them essentially conscript their armies. But also we have people like Osha. She was taken as a prisoner and essentially used as a slave/servant-but then was able to earn more and more freedoms although she was never essentially free. This didn’t seem to raise anyone’s eye in the North. So I would say yes that Serfdom absolutely exists in Westeros and is essentially what the peasant class is when they live in close proximity to their Lord. But it’s just not “official”. Where as in the Iron Islands thralls are still common place and legal.
  2. This is very true and actually goes on to say something that I agree with that Bronn says to or eludes to in the show basically he states that all their families were killers and just killed enough/the right people “kill a hundred people they make you a knight. Kill a thousand they make you a Lord.” which is absolutely true since that’s how many of them became who they were and then just consolidated power. Bronn is the ultimate self made person in this sense
  3. I actually see what your position is and I want to agree but I think it muddys the waters of the question. Being “self made” is usually something by your OWN actions in which your power or skill doesn’t derive from anyone else, and that your own actions have been what propelled you to become what you currently are. i thinkJanis started as a self made man, but by the end of his story it’s quite clear that apart from him being an officer of the Gold Cloaks, his power and position derived from Littlefinger’s protection. This is pointed out to us by Stannis
  4. I actually agree about Arya and was going to add her in, but I think there are ways that people can say her birth helped her. The skills she learns from Syrio come from her special status of Hand’s daughter, the only reason Yoren gives a rats ass about her is because she’s a Stark. Same with her treatment of BwB and the Hound. alothough id say Arya has walked her own path DESPITE the issues placed on her because of her High Birth. I don’t think her birth has necessarily helped her all that much. with Brienne I think she would have had a hugely hugely different time and way of growing up had she not been highborn. She legitimately doesn’t get raped because of her high birth and ransom. And she wouldn’t have had the access to a master at arms
  5. -I don’t remember the Greyjoy’s raiding the Reach AT ALL during or around Roberts Rebellion. If you could provide a quote or a location for that context I’d be happy to read it because I love the Ironborn and that seems way out of character for them. -With Tywin, id also need proof to show that he was ALREADY marching at the time of the Battle of the Trident. If this is true I think it would have changed A LOT of decisions for Rhaegar, Robert & Co, etc. -what you’re saying about the Vale and North is just flat out not true. Lol not trying to be snarky but the only way you actually defeat either the Vale or the North is...well by DEFEATING THEM. The North is essentially isolated and the only way in is through Moat Cailin. To even destroy towns and cities like you suggest, he would HAVE TO go through Moat Cailin first and would lose thousands upon thousands of men, and open himself up to attack from the Riverlands and the Vale. The North has its own economy and the only way you stop the trade is if you do something like take White Harbor, which could not happen unless you sent ships (they didn’t have the power) or invade the North after taking Moat Cailin which no one from the South has EVER through force. The Vale is the same thing. It’s basically protected on the high road and from the bloody gate. The mountains give it its own barrier and makes people have to crash again and again on the Bloody Gate. the Vale is also VERY fertile and shares a bay with the North, so they would be able to supply each other.
  6. also just to chime in what what you’re saying- Another reason why it WOULDNT be apparent that the kidnap would cause war would be the fact that Brandon had the Wolf’s Blood, but not that he was mad. If he thought was was going to come he would have called the banners. Which he does NOT. and again even Rickard Stark DOES NOT CALL THE BANNERS when Brandon is imprisoned. If you compare this to the War of 5 Kings we look at Tyrion’s abduction. As soon as Tyrion is abducted Tywin calls the banners and Ned even gives orders to Catelyn to begin amassing men. This is what it looks like when an abduction leads to war. Lyanna’s was not that.
  7. If Robert falls at the Trident I think you go to Stannis as this point since they “justified” Robert’s Rebellion by the Targaryen blood he had through the female line. -Ned is still going to want Lyanna back. -It’s not like Aerys is going to somehow end the war. He didn’t end it even after Rhaegar had died. If anything Robert’s death would have made him even more stubborn to NOT bend the knee. -As Selma even days, Viserys has already been showing signs of being mad by the time they fled to Dragonstone. Honestly this BIGGEST change that I think could happen is if the realm deposed of the Targaryens and then decided to convene a council about who should rule them. In which case I do believe you end up with a possibly Tywin Lannister I, Protector of the Realm. Ned was not the type of person to grasp for Kingship and he would have grudged Tywin but Jon Arryn obviously didn’t think the Lannister’s as very very evil as he marries Cersei to Robert. Tywin is also single at this point and could possibly even win the support of the Tyrells if he decides to marry one of their bannermen or someone from their House. Stannis of course might grumble but being as just as he is, I think would concede to a Great Council, if he even lives through the siege of Storms End.
  8. I really, really hope not. It would waste A LOT of the cool black sorcery and Lovecraft imagery, not to mention a lot of the foreshadowing that is setting him up to be the human big bad of the series. with Euron sure he is in essence somewhat a con man, but he’s more like a cult leader. And there is a difference, especially in this world. Euron has said he’s sailed to Valyria and he has more than one way of seeming to back that up, not to mention he is one of the few bad characters that take the true sinister approach- caring only about what’s important, but not making himself seem important. He sees kingship in the Iron Islands as a means to an end. He doesn’t give a shit about the Seastone chair really. But he needed the Ironborn to listen to his word. And he did so by being very open handed with plunder. He conquered the Shields not to bolster his name, but to give them away right at the moment he got them to win over men, and to in essence shield HIMSELF from any diss grace when the Shields are lost. He is a true shark. Swim, eat, swim. Keep moving. Don’t get complacent until there is no one left to stand against you.
  9. I think you leave out one important person and to me the ONLY truly self made person of quality other than Jon or possibly Varys. DAVOS SEAWORTH. I think what many people turn a blind eye to, especially on these forums unfortunately, is that they think a certain character is righteous or correct when in reality many many are coming from a huge sense of privilege. That’s why in the Jon chapters it’s nice that you get to see how absurd some of the nobles seem, but really Davos is where you get the closest inkling as to what a commoner feels like when they are around noble blood. The idea of their words carrying more weight or truth simply because of their noble birth. It’s something that all other characters from Catelyn to Tyrion, to yes even Ned has perpetuated and unfortunately something that many fans ignore.
  10. -The Vale and North aren’t unconquerable but they had heavy losses as well, as the battle of the trident was probably one of the bloodiest conflicts in Roberts Rebellion. They aren’t going to go and take an army and smash it against Moat Cailin or the Bloody Gate- both of which leave their backs unchecked. -Tywin had not declared for anyone. The threat of him especially with a paranoid King would not make them Royalists bold in leaving Kings Landing open. The only reasons KL was left open was BECAUSE Rhaegar lost and his host was scattered. That wasn’t supposed to happen. -I don’t see how the Greyjoy’s join the Royalists as they didn’t join the North or Vale or Riverlords. They were content to stay out of it. If they had joined in, it would be to crown themselves PERIOD. Even then Casterly Rock having the ships at Lannisport would have been a big issue and chance for them.
  11. I do agree that the women get waaay too much crap. But this wasn’t supposed to flame Catelyn. This was comparing what her actions could have done negatively and why in comparison to Cersei, certain things didn’t apply.
  12. I think people, as they tend to on these boards, took this as a very different way than what was intended. This isn’t saying Catelyn is bad, but more looking at the negative aspects she had on the story and comparing her to other female driven characters. I personally think the female characters are much more interesting and have some of the best parts in the narrative. I’m a hardcore Arya fan, and even came around to being a Sansa fan after a lot of rereads. But I do think if you compare say Cersei and Catelyn you get a very very different view in how women are treated. And is that because Robb actually loved her and was incompetent, or because Catelyn had to fit certain roles? For instance why was Catelyn not offered as a marriage pact? She didn’t bring anything to the table per sei but from a nobility aspect she was part of the Royal Family of the North so politically she could have been seen as a good marriage to tie a House closer to the King. Ned died around the same time as Robert, yet one of the first things Tywin does is say that she needs to marry again.
  13. So I want to preface this with the statement that I do not hate or even dislike Catelyn Stark. I only believe that her POVs are some of the strangest in the books, as is her story- and I think it could be the fact that we needed a POV in the Stark camp....although it is VERY strange that we get POVs from every other Stark (except Rickon, but I mean he’s a baby) except Robb, which I would even go as far as to say that could have been a bad choice. with Catelyn Stark I believe that her story is one of narratives that break the “realism” of the story. While I think it’s a good themed narrative of grief, anxiety, and then somewhat madness, I think that the decisions made for her character don’t gel with the world as a whole. Her being sent to Renly is I think EXTREMELY strange. Rightly so, it is remarked upon that it seems Robb is “hiding behind his mothers skirt”. Catelyn is not known to have any skill as a diplomat, and is in a state of fried due to Neds death and her daughters imprisonment. And as she comes back to Riverrun, she talks about having respect for the people around her, yet she commonly disregards or bulls over peoples commands and basically forces her will upon people. Not only that, but even the North which she says to “love” she basically abandons simply to comfort her dying father which is sweet, but does NOTHING to further the war effort or to help support her existing family. Then the coup de gras is when she FREES Jaime Lannister but still somehow remains a free woman for all intent and purposes. She does not even get any sense of punishment, which at the very least you would think that Robb would send her to Seagard right away after returning since she obviously cannot be trusted. Overall I think what sucks is that compared to Cersei’s and even Sanaa’s chapters, it shows how women appeared at the mercy of men in these medieval settings, but there was ways around it. Especially for those women who were intelligent and knew how to manipulate. But with Catelyn it seems like somehow this doesn’t apply to her, as she garners respect and almost a Mary Sue type of stature in which people defer to her wants and actions. Would it not have been better to give Robb a POV so that way we could see much of what was going on at the camp, but not HAVE to make Catelyn be in some weird narrative positions simply because she was the POV? Renlys camp and death could have been shown by Brienne. Riverrrun could have been Robb, or even Jaime.
  14. I think the only option that is worth considering is if Rhaegar had simply won the battle of the Trident. For this to take place I believe this means that Robert and Rhaegar never personally battle, or that Robert is carted off after he is injured (which he was). The war would have gone on for MUCH MUCH longer. I believe that the Rebels at that point would retreat back to The Vale and maybe even to Moat Cailin. the interesting thing about that is that this puts them in a very good strategic advantage. With being in two places that essentially can’t be taken by siege, you leave the Targaryen army with nothing except to try and stomp out Rebels where they can. However I don’t think they will attack Riverun because that would leave their back exposed to the existing armies of Moat Cailin and the Vale. I think what this results in is perhaps the first “fleet” that the North has seen in centuries. They build ships at Gulltown and White Harbor, maybe even purchase sell sails and then they make for Dragonstone or Blackwater. The Redwyne fleet would have to meet them, in which case Storms End would no longer be blockaded by sea. If they only make that feint then it’s enough of a distraction for the armies to come down from Riverrun Vale and Moat Cailin, with fresh levies. Not to mention perhaps more people in the Stormlands if Robert himself can land back in Storms End proper. if the Northern fleet (which would still be smaller than Redwynes I’m sure) can okay it smart, they keep up the threat of attacking Dragonstone and Kings Lansing, where Aerys will want them kept very close for protection. All the while they can be putting troops into Storms End. the remnants of Rhaegars host would be back at Kings Landing, but with Aerys being paranoid all the Rebel Lords would need would be either the Riverlands or Vale host to stay and “besiege” the city or at least threaten it, while the other armies go and face the Tyrells in battle. Against Mace Tyrell who won no notable victories and if the Rebel Lords played it right, will have the threat of sorties coming from Storms End to contend with as well.
  15. Oh yeah War of 5 Kings- Id most likely join with Renly at first because I do think he could have been a good King from what we would have seen as Lords. However after that I think I would have joined the group of Dornish that Oberyn took with him to the Red Keep. Although at the time that Robb Stark was in the West, I would have tried to push influence that would possibly make a Marcher/Reach alliance with the North. Because knowing that the Lannister’s were the power in the land perceptibly, I would have pushed for an army to join with him and sack at the least Lannisport while keeping the other forces close at hand while Stannis deals the death blow to the other Lannister’s. I think I’d be able to convince the Tyrells of this since the Lannister’s are really the only ones who could match them for money and power and with them out of the way....well much of the realm is for the picking.
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