Bittersweet Endings, The House of Black & White and Arya

[Alia Atreides]

I don't think Arya necessarily has to walk away, especially if Arya becomes some sort of messiah type figure for the FM, she may end up with more freedom than your average faceless bear.

She can perform her missions, use her wargability and fulfill her lifelong affair with death by becoming the many faced god in the flesh..

how can you be a Messiah and "no-one" at the same time?

[Mulled Wino]

how can you be a Messiah and "no-one" at the same time?

She can rise above the typical face man "no one" status, all the signs are there. Death is associated with Arya from the start.

[Alia Atreides]

She can rise above the typical face man "no one" status, all the signs are there. Death is associated with Arya from the start.

Ok Correct me if I am wrong but is not the Kindly Man still technically "no one" and he is of a high rank in the order? Also did they have ranks at all in that way? I can see what you are saying she will change things perhaps but at what sacrifice to Ayra? She still has her sense of self and conscience you would lose both in becoming one of the FM I don't think the two can co-exist.

[Mulled Wino]

Ok Correct me if I am wrong but is not the Kindly Man still technically "no one" and he is of a high rank in the order? Also did they have ranks at all in that way? I can see what you are saying she will change things perhaps but at what sacrifice to Ayra? She still has her sense of self and conscience you would lose both in becoming one of the FM I don't think the two can co-exist.

The KM is technically "no one" I believe and he appears to be the head trainer of FM's (for the time being). There could be a rotation of sorts.

What I"m getting at is that Arya could be a mold breaker of sorts, someone who can keep their identity and be a FM. She could also transcend normal FM status because of her pedigree and uncanny connection to death. As far as sacrifice to Arya, it depends. I wish I had more time but Arya is still a child, there's so much that she can be. I'm going to try and link you to a few threads when I get back in a little while.

[Alia Atreides]

The KM is technically "no one" I believe and he appears to be the head trainer of FM's (for the time being). There could be a rotation of sorts.

What I"m getting at is that Arya could be a mold breaker of sorts, someone who can keep their identity and be a FM. She could also transcend normal FM status because of her pedigree and uncanny connection to death. As far as sacrifice to Arya, it depends. I wish I had more time but Arya is still a child, there's so much that she can be. I'm going to try and link you to a few threads when I get back in a little while.

Thanks and yes I got what you were saying but any other links is awesome as well.

[Mulled Wino]

Thanks and yes I got what you were saying but any other links is awesome as well.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/78551-aryas-relationship-with-death/

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/76013-arya-no-one-and-the-water-motif-in-braavos/

[Keltess]

I think that Nymeria is the link that will bring her back to Westeros and the north. Through the Direwolf she will be able to find Jon, Bran, and Rickon. Finding her Brothers alive will give her reason to love again, and she needs that badly. She keeps Needle not only because it is from Winterfell but also because Jon, who she relates to more than her other siblings gave it to her. I have hoped since she drove Nymeria away that they would be reunited. Her whole story would have been different if she could have kept her wolf. I do not think she will ever be able to give up her identity completely and so ultimately she will have to leave the House of Black & White. she is still a child of what 10, 11 ? to her, this putting on an another face is a game, a deadly game certainly. I do not think the kindly man will accept a permanant and irrevocable life choice decision from a child.

[Mulled Wino]

I think that Nymeria is the link that will bring her back to Westeros and the north. Through the Direwolf she will be able to find Jon, Bran, and Rickon. Finding her Brothers alive will give her reason to love again, and she needs that badly. She keeps Needle not only because it is from Winterfell but also because Jon, who she relates to more than her other siblings gave it to her. I have hoped since she drove Nymeria away that they would be reunited. Her whole story would have been different if she could have kept her wolf. I do not think she will ever be able to give up her identity completely and so ultimately she will have to leave the House of Black & White. she is still a child of what 10, 11 ? to her, this putting on an another face is a game, a deadly game certainly. I do not think the kindly man will accept a permanant and irrevocable life choice decision from a child.

Actually she's about 13-14 I believe, and much more grown than your average for that age.

I want everything you say for Arya, but it just wouldn't follow or make sense with her arc. Sad, but I think if you're looking for love in Arya's arc, you ain't gonna find it, but in some weird way, I'm cool with that as long as there's vengeance and hate keeps her going. Without hate, Arya will have little to live for the way things are going

[Lady Blue Rose]

Actually she's about 13-14 I believe, and much more grown than your average for that age.

I want everything you say for Arya, but it just wouldn't follow or make sense with her arc. Sad, but I think if you're looking for love in Arya's arc, you ain't gonna find it, but in some weird way, I'm cool with that as long as there's vengeance and hate keeps her going. Without hate, Arya will have little to live for the way things are going

Arya started out as 9 and by DwD she is 11 years old. Sansa is 13 in DwD.

Here is a link to a handy chart with the characters' ages though out the books.

http://towerofthehand.com/reference/compendiums/appendix_ages.html

[Mulled Wino]

Arya started out as 9 and by DwD she is 11 years old. Sansa is 13 in DwD.

Here is a link to a handy chart with the characters' ages though out the books.

http://towerofthehand.com/reference/compendiums/appendix_ages.html

I was thinking about the sample chapter from Winds.

[Keltess]

Actually she's about 13-14 I believe, and much more grown than your average for that age.

I want everything you say for Arya, but it just wouldn't follow or make sense with her arc. Sad, but I think if you're looking for love in Arya's arc, you ain't gonna find it, but in some weird way, I'm cool with that as long as there's vengeance and hate keeps her going. Without hate, Arya will have little to live for the way things are going

When Arya leaves Kings landing she is 8. She refers back to this when she is talking to a 12 year old boy who is shocked when she asks him if he's ever killed a man. she thinks to herself " I killed a stable boy when I was 8." So for Arya anyway the link for ages of the characters is incorrect. A good reference though.Thank you Lady Blue Rose. also most All of the Juvenile Characters in the books act/seem older than their years. The casting of the show further compounds this to some degree. All of the noble children seem to be compelled to grow up too fast. Example Lady Ermasande a Babe in arms and already betrothed for political alliance sake.

[Alia Atreides]

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/78551-aryas-relationship-with-death/

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/76013-arya-no-one-and-the-water-motif-in-braavos/

Thank you I will check them out. I was very nice for you to take the time to look them up for me.

I think that Nymeria is the link that will bring her back to Westeros and the north. Through the Direwolf she will be able to find Jon, Bran, and Rickon. Finding her Brothers alive will give her reason to love again, and she needs that badly. She keeps Needle not only because it is from Winterfell but also because Jon, who she relates to more than her other siblings gave it to her. I have hoped since she drove Nymeria away that they would be reunited. Her whole story would have been different if she could have kept her wolf. I do not think she will ever be able to give up her identity completely and so ultimately she will have to leave the House of Black & White. she is still a child of what 10, 11 ? to her, this putting on an another face is a game, a deadly game certainly. I do not think the kindly man will accept a permanant and irrevocable life choice decision from a child.

For her yes it is a game, but I doubt its that to the House of Black & White hence the forewarning's she continues to get from the Kindly Man and once she gets to a certain point no matter the age I don't think she will be able to turn back. I agree that if she hadn't had to of gotten rid of her wolf things might of been different; but somehow she would of lost Nymeria I just feel that instinctively. I don't think Arya has lost her ability or reason to love if she did it would not mean anything to her anymore the people who hurt her family or friends you have to love and care for it to hurt, she kills those who have hurt her; it in a way keeps her whole for now.

When Arya leaves Kings landing she is 8. She refers back to this when she is talking to a 12 year old boy who is shocked when she asks him if he's ever killed a man. she thinks to herself " I killed a stable boy when I was 8." So for Arya anyway the link for ages of the characters is incorrect. A good reference though.Thank you Lady Blue Rose. also most All of the Juvenile Characters in the books act/seem older than their years. The casting of the show further compounds this to some degree. All of the noble children seem to be compelled to grow up too fast. Example Lady Ermasande a Babe in arms and already betrothed for political alliance sake.

Not only that they all are put into mature situations at such an early age; so many times I've forgotten Jon is only a boy of 14 when this all starts, Dany a girl of 13 and yet by the time we get to ADWD; both of them have aged in years from everything that has been thrown at them; Sansa as well we read them and we forget just how young they all truly are at times.

[Mini Ghost]

Somebody mentioned that Dark Sister will be Arya's sword? How can she claim it when nobody knows where it is?

[juanml82]

Not only that they all are put into mature situations at such an early age; so many times I've forgotten Jon is only a boy of 14 when this all starts, Dany a girl of 13 and yet by the time we get to ADWD; both of them have aged in years from everything that has been thrown at them; Sansa as well we read them and we forget just how young they all truly are at times.

Well, you can always read again about the Jeynegate. That should make anyone remember how young Robb truly was.

[Alia Atreides]

Well, you can always read again about the Jeynegate. That should make anyone remember how young Robb truly was.

of course he was only 15 :(

[Alia Atreides]

Somebody mentioned that Dark Sister will be Arya's sword? How can she claim it when nobody knows where it is?

It may be found in the new books?

[Hand to King Davos]

I really do think Arya can have a semi-normal life again. She has been driven down this path by all the horrible things she has seen, but all she really wants is revenge and justice for the murdered and abused innocents she has seen. I think she will reach the point where she is done with revenge, and at that point she will have to find something else to carry on. I think it will be a sibling that she reunites with, or else maybe seeing LS destroyed by the need for revenge will make her decide to let some of her anger go. But maybe I just really want a somewhat happy ending for Arya. :frown5:

[Bowen]

It occurred to me last night whilst reading about when she kills the merchant,at the start of the chapter there's ten other guys from the house of black n white,faceless men call em what you will but they all claim to know the target which got me to thinking that Arya won't become a faceless man whilst she has plans on killing off the names she gos through each night,she may well use the skills and do her own thing but I can't see her flying off to kill targets she doesn't know as it just wouldn't lend itself to the story IMO.

She may be quite a tragic figure but so far at least she's a real survivor and has the most Stark about her I guess,love her story.

[Hand to King Davos]

Yeah, that is a good point. If Arya becomes a true faceless man, then she won't be targeting anyone on her list. That would be the most unfulfilling ending I can think of.

[Alia Atreides]

I really do think Arya can have a semi-normal life again. She has been driven down this path by all the horrible things she has seen, but all she really wants is revenge and justice for the murdered and abused innocents she has seen. I think she will reach the point where she is done with revenge, and at that point she will have to find something else to carry on. I think it will be a sibling that she reunites with, or else maybe seeing LS destroyed by the need for revenge will make her decide to let some of her anger go. But maybe I just really want a somewhat happy ending for Arya. :frown5:

I'm sorry who is LS? I would love a happy ending for Arya myself but I am not going to hold my heart into it right now in a way the thing that is keeping her whole is the people left she hasn't killed yet what happens when that list ends? == I figured out the initials :) === and that is a good point seeing what her Mom has become might turn her about.

It occurred to me last night whilst reading about when she kills the merchant,at the start of the chapter there's ten other guys from the house of black n white,faceless men call em what you will but they all claim to know the target which got me to thinking that Arya won't become a faceless man whilst she has plans on killing off the names she gos through each night,she may well use the skills and do her own thing but I can't see her flying off to kill targets she doesn't know as it just wouldn't lend itself to the story IMO.

She may be quite a tragic figure but so far at least she's a real survivor and has the most Stark about her I guess,love her story.

True about not killing anyone she knows but

she has already broken this in WoW

I love her story too she is a true survivor BUT she has also been very very lucky.

Yeah, that is a good point. If Arya becomes a true faceless man, then she won't be targeting anyone on her list. That would be the most unfulfilling ending I can think of.

Yes it would be sad for me.