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Darkstar112

Questions from re-read

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Hi all

I'm onto my third re-read of the books now.

Currently on Clash of Kings and just finished Bran's chapter where Theon has taken Winterfell.

First point, when Edmure sends word that his forces have dealt a great blow to Tywin and he's heading south-east, is he re-treating to Kings Landing or has word been sent of Stannis sailing? As far as I remember at that point Stannis hasn't sailed yet and has just taken storms end, with word being received at Riverrun via raven.

I see this has already been discussed a few years back in a previous topic but Ser Rodrick leaving no men at Winterfeel doesn't make any sense to me what so ever. What did Ned say, 100 men could hold against a 1000 or something along those lines. Sure I can understand it might have been considered an isolated incident of reavers attacking the shore but actually taking Tohrens Square should have set alarm bells off.

I know this needs to happen to fall into the storyline but it seems a bit ridiculous to me, again maybe because i'm bias and like Robb. On that basis then if Winterfell hadn't fallen to Theon would the events played out any differently?

I'm still a little confused as to how Ramsay got the go-ahead to attack Rodrick's forces, surely the Dreadfort men would have thought wtf, unless there was communication between him and Roose.

Finally in thinking strategy wise, wouldn't it have made more sense for them to push onto Casterly Rock when they were at Oxcross, was there any reason to make for The Crag? 

Just used the map below to help a little with the path of the characters, really great.

http://quartermaester.info/

 

 

 

 

 

 

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5 hours ago, Darkstar112 said:

Hi all

I'm onto my third re-read of the books now.

Currently on Clash of Kings and just finished Bran's chapter where Theon has taken Winterfell.

First point, when Edmure sends word that his forces have dealt a great blow to Tywin and he's heading south-east, is he re-treating to Kings Landing or has word been sent of Stannis sailing? As far as I remember at that point Stannis hasn't sailed yet and has just taken storms end, with word being received at Riverrun via raven.

I see this has already been discussed a few years back in a previous topic but Ser Rodrick leaving no men at Winterfeel doesn't make any sense to me what so ever. What did Ned say, 100 men could hold against a 1000 or something along those lines. Sure I can understand it might have been considered an isolated incident of reavers attacking the shore but actually taking Tohrens Square should have set alarm bells off.

I know this needs to happen to fall into the storyline but it seems a bit ridiculous to me, again maybe because i'm bias and like Robb. On that basis then if Winterfell hadn't fallen to Theon would the events played out any differently?

I'm still a little confused as to how Ramsay got the go-ahead to attack Rodrick's forces, surely the Dreadfort men would have thought wtf, unless there was communication between him and Roose.

Finally in thinking strategy wise, wouldn't it have made more sense for them to push onto Casterly Rock when they were at Oxcross, was there any reason to make for The Crag? 

Just used the map below to help a little with the path of the characters, really great.

http://quartermaester.info/

 

 

 

 

 

 

That site isn't always correct though, especially Jaime's path in ASOS.

I always interpreted it as Tywin getting notified of Stannis taking Storm's End, which would naturally mean King's Landing's next on the list, so he would have to retreat. Storm's End was taken a couple of chapters before the Battle of the Fords, so the timing makes sense.

Not leaving any men behind was as arrogant as it was stupid, but that doesn't make it unrealistic. If everyone always talks about how noone could ever take Winterfell, people would naturally get careless, and jump to the conclusion that noone would be crazy enough to attack it. That's why Rodrik took the men away and doomed Winterfell with his arrogance and stupidity.

Maybe the Rock is really difficult to conquer and Robb just wanted to tease Tywin with the prospect of loosing his castle, in order to draw him to the West, without actually having to capture it.

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In terms of timing, he wouldn't have wasted all the feints on Riverrun to find a way across. Unless a raven arrived to him whilst he was attempting to find a weak point.

In saying that I dont think it would have been a raven as they cannot find people in the field so would have had to be a rider. Maybe that makes more sense of why the delay from Storms end actually being taken to Tywin falling back to KL's

Regards to Rodrik, I don't think it was arrogance or stupidity, I do think this is out of character trait that was just woven into the storyline to fit. Leaving the castle completely undefended just doesn't make any sense to me. 

The Rock has never been taken, however it is actually closer 'map' wise than the Crag. I think word that the Rock is under siege would wage a lot more cause for concern than teasing the prospect.

In thinking on that wouldn't it have been better for Robb to march on Kings Landing whilst Stannis was attacking... meh going a bit off topic there. Maybe when I read a few more chapters on it will refresh my memory why they went for the Crag.

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22 minutes ago, Darkstar112 said:

In terms of timing, he wouldn't have wasted all the feints on Riverrun to find a way across. Unless a raven arrived to him whilst he was attempting to find a weak point.

In saying that I dont think it would have been a raven as they cannot find people in the field so would have had to be a rider. Maybe that makes more sense of why the delay from Storms end actually being taken to Tywin falling back to KL's

Regards to Rodrik, I don't think it was arrogance or stupidity, I do think this is out of character trait that was just woven into the storyline to fit. Leaving the castle completely undefended just doesn't make any sense to me. 

The Rock has never been taken, however it is actually closer 'map' wise than the Crag. I think word that the Rock is under siege would wage a lot more cause for concern than teasing the prospect.

In thinking on that wouldn't it have been better for Robb to march on Kings Landing whilst Stannis was attacking... meh going a bit off topic there. Maybe when I read a few more chapters on it will refresh my memory why they went for the Crag.

I think he was trying to get across the river, when a rider/raven arrived, saying "Stannis has Storm's End and will probably soon attack King's Landing". That's when Tywin abandoned his plans and just retreated.

Well, I think noone expected an attack on Winterfell, so that's why he took the risk. He obviously made a mistake, it was dumb and arrogant.

Robb couldn't have attacked King's Landing, his plan was to let Stannis deal with that anyway, but furthermore it wouldn't have been strategically feasible as long as Tywin was at Harrenhal, and what would he gain from marching there anyway?

By attacking castles other than the Rock he tried to provoke Tywin's bannermen, who would obviously be pissed off at their castles getting sacked, while the Rock was safe. I think Hannibal used a similar strategy on his campaigns in Italy, destroying anything that didn't belong to a particular Konsul, to spread discord amongst the Romans.

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Tywin was no longer at Harrenhal at this stage, presuming the events are pretty fluent at this point Bolton has control of Harrenhal as Tywin's "retreating" south east.

I read a previous thread on here that CR was impossible for Robb to take, however I see no reason why Lannisport wasnt. 

Interesting how in the space of a few chapters in ACOK everything goes from looking thumbs up for the north to pretty much FUBAR.

I don't see what the strategic point was to have Bolton hold Harrenhal either.

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