Unpopular Opinions

[georgeforeman]

So, look, it's theoretically conceivable that Tyrion or both Tyrion AND Joff were the target of the poison. It just makes far less sense than Joff alone.

For one thing, if you want both Joff and Tyrion killed, what happened works perfectly. If not for Jamie's intervention, Tyrion's dead right now.

But perhaps more importantly, it just makes more sense that the Tyrells wanted Joff dead rather than Tyrion. Sure, Tywin is the regent and hand for now, but in 3 or so years, Joff rules in his own name, and no one can control him. Given that he's a sadist and unlikely to stop being a sadist when he's deemed old enough to rule, that puts Marg in a tough spot. With Joff out of the way, it's a simple thing to insist that Margaery is married to Tommen (which, you know, happened) and so the alliance is intact without your favorite granddaughter needing to marry a psycho. Additional benefits include Tommen being more malleable than Joff and hence easier to influence. All of this is suggested by the text. Is Sansa's conversation under cover of "The Bear and the Maiden Fair" just a red herring? Seems unlikely to me.

Regarding people's plans for Sansa, I think it's most likely that the Tyrells planned to pin the crime on Tyrion and do their best to keep Sansa out of it. If they were able, yay, we can marry her to Willas. If not, oh well, so much for that. It's unlikely that they discussed this with LF since he had no progeny to marry to her, and he's not of sufficiently noble birth to do so himself. Plus people underestimate LF. They just do.

Either way, all of this makes way more sense than there was a particular piece of pie that was supposed to poison Tyrion.

[nevermore]

if you read arguments on that page before you would understand how confusing everything sounds...

but i would like to add that Tyrion is definitely not the target, i mean really? he is the perfect person to blame, alive he can have 100 people denounce him, dead and the conspiracy theories go on. Also if he dies, Sansa = Main suspect and LF can't use her to gain the north (if that ever becomes possible) the same thing happens for the Tyrells if they are only targeting him, she would be the only suspect to kill her vile ugly husband, no one would accuse Joffers in any case, also i believe Joffrey would have a sudden change of heart for his uncle and announce the execution of Sansa with tear filled eyes and talk of how she was to be her betrothed and how she betrayed him. or atleast some form of horrible punishment which leaves her disfigured if not execution. Also the Tyrells could never hope to reclaim Sansa, the Lannisters would probably keep her and marry her to Tommen or next of kin, if a person has joined a family already it is easier to replace the husband with lesser nobles of that house rather than turn about and go to a different house, besides Sansa was totally in Lannister power, Joffers/Cersei would take her right to marriage and the Tyrells could only ask for her.

[Selysin]

i think the Tyrells and LF planned the assination before Sansa was married to Tyrion. the Tyrells intended for Tyrion to take all of the blame and then they could have taken Sansa to highgarden and married her to Wilas. unfortuatly they told Sansa who told donatos who then told LF. the lannisters then married her to Tryion ruining that part of the Tyrells plan and givig LF the opening he needed to get his hands on Sansa

[Anya, Vengeance Demon]

I'm just saying that Tywin is not likely to be suspicious if Tyrion suddenly dies in an apparently natural way, because he hates Tyrion and wishes him dead, or to get him somehow out of the way.

Tywin doesn't want Tyrion out of the way. If he wanted Tyrion out of the way, he could have killed Tyrion himself at some point, or sent him off to the Faith or the Citadel, not given him high positions at court and made him crucial to the Lannister ambitions in the north. He doesn't want him to inherit Casterly Rock, but he makes Tyrion the acting Hand, he puts him on the council, he marries him to the most eligible maiden in King's Landing... he clearly doesn't want to dispose of Tyrion or see him die. And you never really responded to my point before: if Tyrion dies, then Sansa becomes marriageable again, and Winterfell becomes available to the Tyrells again. Your theory requires Tywin to ignore this political reality, and that is fundamentally out of character for him.

[ras rayder]

My overall theory (unpopular perhaps) is based on the fact that GRRM used the War of the Roses as the basic outline for ASOIAF.

The WOTR ended when a "new" house was created (Tudors) that unified the houses of Lancaster and York. In Westeros, I am assuming there will be a similar unification. I think the Starks have to be part of that, just to close the circle (first chapter to last). So, who is the other house? Lannister or Targaryan?

Now I see the Targaryans as more of a parallel of the Plantagenets, an ancient ruling house that has sired many cadet branches and other royal houses. It seems like there is more 'blood of the dragon' spread around that we may know... In typical dynastic cycles, houses rise and fall. I think the day of the Targaryans is over. Dany is going to show up in Westeros, probably with the Ironborn. The other houses will have to unify to throw down this challenge. However, I am sure it will be love, betrayal, and murder that brings down Dany, rather than battle.

That leaves the Lannisters. A match of Bran/Rickon to Myrcella make sense to me.

I'll stop for now so I don't ramble.

[The Marquis de Leech]

My overall theory (unpopular perhaps) is based on the fact that GRRM used the War of the Roses as the basic outline for ASOIAF.

Not really that unpopular. Aerys = Henry VI, Robert = Edward IV, Stannis = Richard III, for instance.

[ras rayder]

Not really that unpopular. Aerys = Henry VI, Robert = Edward IV, Stannis = Richard III, for instance.

I have definitely been brushing up on my history lately. Reading this series has made me realize there was more to real medieval wars than just battles and treaties.

[Lasair]

Catelyn (or somebody else with the opportunity) should have quietly murdered Jeyne Westerling.

The Freys switching sides was a greater disaster leading to much greater loss of life than that of one young woman. I think that Catelyn knew deep down that there was no hope of keeping the Freys.

And that's without any idea that the outrage of the Red Wedding could possibly happen.

[Lady Blackfish]

This thread is well past its limit. Start up another one if you'd like to continue the topic!