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[ADWD SPOILERS] Jon 9


Xray the Enforcer

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Well he's already gave some startlingly accurate predictions: the red wedding and other things.

The red wedding?? When?? I guess I just missed it... Anyhow, Patchface mentioned wights when he said that the dead were dancing. He seems like he doesn't know much but he deffinetely does. Perhaps nobody is consciuos about it but to me Patchface is very wise in a weird sort of way.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I can't believe there were one or two comments who didn't like this chapter!! I love the reveals here, a) with the braavosi history, and B) with karstarks betrayal and how that completely undermines Mel's religion/powers, and hopefully now people can see it for what it really it - all smoke and mirrors.

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  • 1 month later...
  • 1 month later...

LOL...this is the second time a Star Wars reference has crept into this book. The preceding Tyrion chapter had him thinking 'I have a bad feeling about this.'

On a more serious note though...

I ma happy to see more people are getting this sense of foreboding about the decisions Jon is making. I wrote about it in Jon 8 so I won't repeat it here. He is making unpopular choices and it is quite obvious that the men of the Night's Watch are getting restless about it. Sooner or later, a vigilante type is going to get it in his head that Jon is destroying the NW and stab him in the back.

I think Jon is being set up to be killed by GRRM. GRRM seems to have a problem with the Starks, since all Starks are either being set up to fail (Sansa) or die (Ned, Robb, and now Jon) or lose their identity as a Stark (Arya, Bran, Catelyn).

Sansa's last chapter in Feast was one of the best in the book. She's being set up to win if everything goes right as littlefinger wants to reinstate her as commander of Winterfell and marry her to that heir of the Vale.

I agree. I keep looking at Jon and Dany's chapters as being parallels. It's hard though because even though Jon is making good choices, he doesn't have many followers who see that and that may be his undoing and then ultimately theirs because their too blind to see it. Going to save the wildlings by boats is going to just be more flame for the fire...and the borrowing money.

I don't think Mel or Jon should be upset about the mistaken vision. Mel's even said that the flames themselves don't lie, but her interpretations are sometimes wrong. In the flames, she sees a young girl desperately trying to reach Jon on a dying horse. He gets a letter that announces her impending marriage to a monster. She interprets that girl she sees as being his sister due to that. If not for the letter, she probably would have just informed him about some young girl coming, but she jumped to conclusions. It was heartbreaking though to see him get so excited to see her and make plans to keep her safe and then well there's Alys. :crying:

Melisandre explains why she does that in her chapter. She is not certain but claims she is so people will take her predictions serious. If she said something like: oh there might be a girl who might be your sister coming to you, it wouldn't sound very foreseen would it? It would sound more like a lucky guess.

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  • 5 months later...

Only a small detail but I really like it - through POVs in different locations, we can see this snow storm moving.

Here Jon says the storm had moved south, and in the previous Theon and Asha chapters we can see it moving.

Gotta love the little details that bring everyone together :thumbsup:

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  • 4 weeks later...

Yep, good chapter:

- Jon is not letting himself be bullied by the southrons - telling the knight to mind his own business re Val, and the giant is a guest, just like them. Good on ya, son! Jon seems even amused by the knights boast that "one word to the Queen, and I'll get the wildling princess parading naked." Jon is not worried, he seems to find all this amusing. He is confident of his own power. Great.

- borrowing money from the Iron Bank: well, unless the envoy did come with chests of gold, which I doubt, the loan will still have to be ratified back at base (in Braavos), and the gold sent to Castle Black. So the enjoy will need to either send a raven to Braavos, or go back there himself. Otherwise how is the gold going to reach Jon?

- if the Iron Bank loans money to Jon, it will have an idea of how the NW can repay it. It's a bank, a large and successful and powerful bank, it won't loan money without understanding how the loan can be repaid. I wonder what the collateral will be. Yep, wood perhaps. Or maybe they see the NW as a valuable ally to Stannis, an ally who needs to be supported in the greater game. We don't know at this point.

- I don't think Melisandre told Jon she was 100% that the girl on a pale horse would be Arya. Incidentally, isn't there a parallel between the girl on a pale horse, and Quaithe's vision of "the pale mare" for Dany? In Quaithe's case, it is the greyscale or the flux (I think), and coincidentally, here comes Shireen with her own greyscale. So is it what Melisandre meant? In any case, I don't think Jon will go to Mel and say "ah-ha! You were wrong! It is not Arya, but Alys Karstark." Mel was quite upfront about the fact that she didn't know exactly what the vision was.

- And GRRM makes a point of telling us that Mel had told Jon, one day before the ravens announced it, that Selyse & co were on their way. So she can see stuff before anyone else and Jon knows that.

- We don't know about the exact state of Stannis army, whether he has spies, outriders, rangers etc. So when and how will he know that Karstark has betrayed him. Maybe Jon will have to tell him. Hard to get a full picture of Stannis'army capabilities at this stage: are they just barely surviving by the lake, unable to move and see anything? Or are they still functioning as a fighting unit?

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  • 1 year later...

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