Darkstream

6 hours ago, lancerman said:

You made a comment about the poll not meaning anything because less people watch the show. I responded that it is a flat out lie that less people watch the show. If you can't follow a response to your own comment, that's your failing.

The issue with you is that you are trying to prop up your opinion that the show is bad and to do so you question the intelligence of the show runners, you've questioned the intelligence of the people who liked it, you questioned whether they read the books, all so you could try to say that their opinion isn't relevant. And my response to that is, why is it so one-sided? The majority of critics, the majority of people who talk about it, the majority of the most hardcore fan community that discuses it. So what is it that is sooooo compelling about your take that it renders that side meaningless and every barometer that overwhelmingly disagrees with your opinion meaningless.

You couldn't even help yourself. You had to pull a, "won't change the reality that Got is a poorly written show". Most people don't think that. So why is that the reality? Because your so special and smarter than the rest of us that your take is the only factually one? Cause that's only conclusion you can draw from a statement like that. But then you'll  play victim again and act like your being persecuted for your opinion...which you try to pass off as fact... and subtlety question the intelligence of those that disagree with you.

 

There wouldn't be a problem if those with a negative opinion hadn't long since taken this condescending elitist attitude and make snide remarks about the intelligence of those who like the show or question their fandom as if they never read the books. Then those same people are the most sensitive and take a victim mentality when that's thrown back at them.

If the criticisms were "I just didn't enjoy the episode" that would be one thing. It's constant bitching and moaning a and bashing of the showrunners, questioning their intelligence, and the people who like it. It's the only group of people that feel entitled to bash the creators of the show, who needed their own thread for every episode where they could be shielded from debate.

I would refer you to the "Got (gasp) positive thread" and you mean shielded from trolls like you.

Nobody would care if someone came in here said "man I just didn't like tonight's episode, for x y and z, didn't do it for me". But it's "this is the stupidest show ever, the creators suck and are dumb&dumb, I can't believe their are people (who obviously don't know the source material) that eat this up, lol at them". If someone went in the books forums and acted that way about GRRM and all of us who liked the books , they would be rightly criticized and probably deemed a troll. And it's been happening for quite awhile, and plenty of people have gotten fed up  with  it.

Wrong, all the responses on this thread were to several posters that just have to add onto the end of their comments things like, "any one who votes a 1 is a troll" and "if you voted a 1 you are a soulless psychopath"

Why is it reality? Because by any literary standards it's true. The reason I don't follow your point is because you keep shifting the issue that we are debating, and refuse to acknowledge the legitimate counter arguments to your ridiculous assertions. However, I grow tiresome of trying to have a objective discussion with you. good day. 

ETA: False, I did not say less people overall watch it, I implied that a lot of the people who are critical of the show don't watch anymore. You have got to stop with the false quotes. Do you not remember your own post? My statement was a rebuttal to you saying  "It is also a section of a site of the most hardcore critical fans in the world for this material.  " Not only is this statement irrelevant to the discussion, it is factually wrong, this is the Got section, you are thinking of the ASOIAF section.  "If you can't follow a response to your own comment, that's your failing."

And phuuuleeze, stop with the crying victim shit, if you think you have any power to make me feel victimized, you are sorely mistaken.

10 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

I suspect that the showrunners may not have been pleased when Uncle Orson scathingly wrote:

But wouldn't it have been nice if HBO had presented an adult version of this masterpiece of fantasy literature, instead of giving us the lonely-14-year-old-boy's version.

This has been reasonably theorized to be a dig at Card’s genocide in Ender’s Game of the “buggers”, an insectoid, beetle-like race of space-faring extraterrestrials.

Understand that Cart quite likes A Song of Ice and Fire: notice he calls it “a masterpiece of fantasy literature”. But the show gratuitous nudity, perhaps amongst other things, seems to have rubbed him quite the wrong way.  

Then again, he's hardly alone in this regard.

thank you for providing the link.

2 hours ago, Joe Pesci said:

Yet here you are, arguing about it over some 18 pages of posts. Oh, sweet irony...

7/10 

Iron Islands/Kingsmoot was pretty poor, the theatre show in Braavos too long, and everything north of the Wall just seemed rushed into this episode too quickly.

No, if you were bothered to read any of my post on those eighteen pages, instead of making baseless accusations, you would know that my stance is in support of my right to give a vote of one in a meaningless poll, not whether said poll has any meaning.

1 hour ago, lancerman said:

See that would make sense if the show experienced massive decreases in viewership. But it didn't. So there again that's a baseless statement. There is no proof that their is a statistically significant amount of people that influenced the amount of people voting.

 

I honestly can't follow what your point is anymore, and I fail to see any benefit to your obstinate stance on this issue. Bottom line, if you want to go on fooling yourself into believing that the results of this poll have any meaning, or that I'm a troll for voting a one, feel free to do so. It won't change the reality of it, just as you giving it a ten won't change the reality that Got is a poorly written show.

3 hours ago, lancerman said:

The majority of people here liked it, in an overwhelming majority. The majority of critics liked it in an overwhelming majority. If you go by the public and social media the majority of people who watched it liked it in an overwhelming majority.

Your posit is one of those statements where people who didn't like the show are trying to justify the overwhelming disagreement with their opinion as not being as legitimate because the people voting positively are somehow incapable of looking at it with a critical eye. Yet it falls when you apply it to every barometer to how you would judge the show to be received.

This forum is the Game of Thrones foruml. It is also a section of a site of the most hardcore critical fans in the world for this material. And of the 500 fans on this site  of hardcore fans who vote, just shy of 400 said the episode was a 7 or above. So why is it the vast majority of positive criticism that is being questioned?

You still think these poll results mean anything? Out of 115, 201 members of this forum, only 512 have even voted. If you want to account for the people that don't even watch the show anymore because they think it is so bad, and therefore don't vote, you argument might mean something.

On 5/23/2016 at 8:00 PM, Tooms said:

You may recall GRRM's  Kathunk speech he gave Tyrion in season 4.

If you are referring to the beetle speech with Jaimie, you do realize that was all d$d.

15 hours ago, Steelegrave said:

Which statistical laws exactly?  A standard bell curve should have near equal values at the extreme ends with higher measures in the moderate values.  If one extreme end is substantially higher than the other, I would theorize that those on that disjointed extreme are the fucking trolls.

You forgot to drop the mic.

 I love being trolled by a troll, calling me a troll. Aaah, fun times indeed. 

5 minutes ago, God-Emperor of Yi Ti said:

yeah GRRM never resorts to unorginal and repetitive tropes at all ...

we have someone pretending to be Arya 

and a real arya pretending to be no-one 

and sansa pretending to be someone else 

and sandor clegane pretending to be someone else

and random red shirt disguised as Mance 

and mance disguised as someone else

and a fake Aegon

and a faceless man pretending to be Pate

have i left any out?

 

Mission:Impossible would be proud to have that amount of mask pulling going on.....

 

Strawman.

16 hours ago, God-Emperor of Yi Ti said:

And in your mind you are listening to shostakovich in disdain, i suppose as the "masses" of 450 people who could be bothered to log on to a fan site follow their drivel. 

Funny that you don't imagine you might be the one saying "its just noise and not a patch on the original " as the the masses listen to this new fangled rock and roll. 

Sometimes.. probably most times... an outlier opinion is an outlier because its flawed....

And as stated below, the people voting 1 don't really get that they're giving themselves away as trolls due to the rules of statistical distributions...

 

You still don't know what a troll is, and your giving to much validity to an uncontrolled poll of, as you put it "masses" of 450 people. Your PhD in statistics is not going to win this argument.

@Steelegrave 

Also, bravo to you, good Ser.

8 minutes ago, Steelegrave said:

You sir are a man of distinction and grace.  Bravo.

I would second that, those are the words i was searching for.

27 minutes ago, God-Emperor of Yi Ti said:

disagreeing is the point of the exercise.

However announcing that you in the fullness of thought  voted 1 for an episode where the plurality is at 10 and the average is above 9 makes the case for ignoring your opinion as a  trolling exercise far more succinctly than any counter argument could do...

You have a skewed view of what a troll is, there is nothing inflammatory about announcing your views, whether contrary to the majority or not.

18 hours ago, YOVMO said:

The real question isn't what to rate the episode, but whether anyone who really enjoys GoT and asoiaf can ever reasonably be expected to feel happiness again.

IMHO, this is the best comment on this thread yet.  

And this...  

Quote

Littlefinger not teleporting. I think what people miss is that Gendry is rowing people all over the place. Killing Tristane in the harbor at Kings Landing, Balish getting around to all corners of the known universe -- pretty much any time someone crosses an absurd amount of time and often under the cover of stealth we have to assume that it is Gendry rowboating them around.

...

This was a post of mine from up thread,

Quote

It's also worth pointing out that all of you ranting about the majority, are not actually a part of the majority. The majority of people on here giving high scores are explaining what they enjoyed about the show without disrespectfully insulting anyone that doesn't agree with their opinion.

I would add, the majority of you on this thread are not who my posts are intended for, any argumentative or sarcastic comments I've made are directed at the people that refuse to respect the opinions of others.

2 hours ago, lancerman said:

You don't get to play the I'm being disrespected card when you accuse people who disagree with you of either not reading the books or having less than a fourth grade reading comprehension.

First of all, you don''t get to tell me what I get to do. Secondly, You are making a baseless and false accusation. Show me one post of mine where my point or assertion had anything to do with me having a problem with someone disagreeing with me. You don't seem to understand my argument on this thread at all, Maybe some of my post aren't clear enough, as I get tired of repeating the same thing over and over on the same thread. If so I apologize for that. I will concede that mayhaps my responses to Jondance have been a little harsh, but that's because he made it personal by attacking me the last two weeks with posts that the mods have removed.

Quote

JonSnowed

Posted 17 hours ago · Report post

P.s don't feed the trolls they live empty lives and gaining a response from others fuels their self-importance ignore them and they will stop eventually.

...something ....something....first stone...blah...blah

39 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Sorry that's like saying you won't be spoiled if you watch the Harry Potter movies. Every adaptation of any work of size beyond a 300 page novel will have some changes.

The bulk of the plot points are there. The big ideas and payoffs are there. So they had Jon stabbed before the Pink letter. Doesn't change the fact that the Pink Letter happened and Jon got stabbed. The fact that it was the wildings and not the Jon rebelling against the letter doesn't change that the important content happened.

Honest opinion, I think there's a lot of book fans (who don't have a high opinion of the show) who have been terrified that the series they devoted so much time was going to be finished by the show first, and now they feel the need to justify every change as it being too different to count as a spoiler.

Here are the facts

-Jon got stabbed

-Ramsay threatened Jon with the Pink Letter

-Reek helped Ramsay's bride escape. (so they used Sansa in place of another character, as long as they get her in position for wherever her Vale plot leads, the overall content is maintained)

-Tyrion eventually made it to Mereen while the Harpies revolted

-Cersie had her walk and is now awaiting a trial with Undead Gregor

-Dany got taken from the pit in Mereen and ran into the Dothraki

-Ayra got blinded training with the faceless men.

-Euron won the Kingsmoot

-Dorne is planning on having some type of war with the Lannisters.

-Sam went off to Oldtown

-Bran met the three eyed Raven in the tree.

Sounds pretty familiar to where the books I read left off. Are some things different? Yeah of course. They always were going to be. The show wasn't going to last 15 years to accommodate the sheer amount of content and detail George put in. It stopped trying once it got past the first and simplest book to adapt (and even their they took a few liberties). Of the major characters, Sansa is the biggest who is out of place, and her plot in the show is still flirting with Baelish and the Vale, so it probably won't be hard to pop her back into position. Then you have Brienne and Jamie and we both know why they aren't in position. And looks like Brienne might be heading to Riverrun anyways. And who knows maybe Jamie has to get the Blackfish to surrender as well. By the end of this most of us are going to have a pretty good idea of where the books are leading and where they will end up.

You probably aren't going to get some completely different ending with the majority of characters in different positions. Some will be, because that happens in most adaptations. But George didn't outline the end of his series to D&D for no reason.

d&d's writing is exactly like your post, checking off a bunch of plot points on a list. It doesn't matter that you have everything checked if the way you accomplished it is implausible. A good story is more about how you get somewhere, than just being there. 

2 hours ago, johndance said:

You do realize it's been confirmed this is accurate and not even close to fan fiction right?

Stop spreading your petty wishes around like it's a fact. 

You do realize checking off plot points on a list does not equal good story telling, or a representation of book canon that hasn't been completed or released. If you've ever read the books, and have a reading comprehension level above that of a fourth grader(something that d&d have confirmed they don't have, with their moronic comments), you wouldn't  be making such a ignorant and simplistic comment. 

4 minutes ago, Baltan said:

Thank you for this clarification (this time without sarcasm).

And I completely agree, there's too little respect for different opinions around here sometimes (and that's the reason why I quoted you before). I know this behaviour is common here, but I'm glad you came back to clarify it.

  I apologize if my remarks came off as sarcastic, none was intended towards you. 

9 minutes ago, YOVMO said:

I find it odd that your natural assumption is that anyone who disagrees with you is a troll. 

Yup, I would like to add, stop coming to a forum designed to share and discuss personal opinions if you'd can't handle a differing opinion than yours. 

I am going to post a portion of a previous post of mine here, as it seems it is needed. 

...I've been accused of being a troll several times on these forums, and its pretty ridiculous. I don't want to hate this show. I want this show to be the great, iconic masterpiece that it once showed it had the potential to be. I would love nothing more than to come on here and give Got nothing but high scores and praise. Alas, that is honestly not how I see this show anymore. 

As I've stated several times before, I have absolutely no problem with people coming on here raving about how great Got is and giving high scores to something that I obviously feel doesn't deserve it. I respect your right to your opinion, and your right to rate the show as you please. 

What I ask is for that same respect. My dislike of this show in no way inhibits your ability to enjoy it. I have the same right to come on here and give this show a one, and voice my displeasure with it as you have to give it a ten. Please stop making baseless assumptions about other people's motives, just because you, for some reason, feel threatened because somebody disagrees with you. It would be real nice if I could come onto this public forum to share my opinion without several people calling me a troll, insisting that my opinion isn't valid, and acting like they are the reigning authority on how everybody is supposed to vote. 

14 minutes ago, Baltan said:

So those of us who enjoyed it -and consider it a good show despite the flaws- we are all hypnotized by flashy effects and can't think for ourselves. Good thing your comments enlighten us all. Thank you so much for your consideration

You might want to read my previous comments on this board. I have only quoted and directed my comments to people making ridiculous and insulting acusations. 

1 hour ago, dannyk65 said:

Bran's next flashback to the Tower of Joy will involve light sabers...YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!

Or is it going to be a flash forward???  

If they remember to show it at all. I sight Cercei's flashback as a precedence. They wasted valuable screen time on her flashback and cut everything in it that had any meaning. What was the point of showing that? Do the unsullied even remember that scene? Are they able to tell me what it meant?  To d&d, the tower of joy was only a chance to show a flashy, ninja style fight. Again all bells and whistles, and no substance. Oh, and to assassinate Ned's character. ( the character that the show itself established in season one. Nothing to do with the book character, for all you with your strawman arguments)

2 minutes ago, dannyk65 said:

C'mon!!!  It was GREAT storytelling to have Leaf literally fall on her grenade....it's not like she could've thrown it??!!

In all seriousness, I find it hard to get anywhere questioning things like people saying those that give 1/10 ratings are trolls, while saying they rated it 10/10 even though it had a few flaws, and then they describe the flaws.  It's a winner-less argument, and this show seems to be a very polarizing one

Yeah, I'm sure GRRM will have the COTF using fricken grenades. Just more stupid flashy effects to hypnotize the masses into thinking they are watching something good. 

35 minutes ago, johndance said:

9/10

 

you know what's hilarious? They've pretty much established most/at least more of the show is indeed based off of what GRRM has planned for the books. Curious as to what everyone who is giving the episodes 1's, bitching about the 'fan-fic' writing and direwolf deaths is going to say when it plays out this way when winds actually does come out. Will they say GRRM is a terrible writer too? 

Wholly fuck, how many times does this have to be said? Checking off plot points on a list does not equal good story telling. If you've ever read the books, and have a reading comprehension level above that of a fourth grader(something that d&d have confirmed they don't have, with their moronic comments), you wouldn't  be making such a ignorant and simplistic comment.