Jump to content

Beardy the Wildling

Members
  • Content count

    341
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Everything posted by Beardy the Wildling

  1. Beardy the Wildling

    Do D&D hate feminity?

    You may have noticed I never actually said I disliked the inclusion of patriarchy/oppressive systems. In fact, the raw depiction of these things, both book and early seasons of the show, are definitely one of the series's strengths. No, the problems come in with the differing motives for showing these things between GRRM and D&D, and how these differences in motive have bled through onto the screen. The main reason one can tell that D&D don't care about realism in this world is that these systems of patriarchy and oppression are inconsistent. So, for example, Randyll Tarly, an established buyer-in to rigid gender roles to the point of threatening to kill his first-born over him not adhering to dominant masculine roles, and who is forcing his daughter into an arranged marriage with a far older man due to viewing her as a possession and little more, is not only magically okay with his wife talking back to him, but will actually call her a 'good woman' for doing so. Another example is Cersei Lannister; as a queen dowager, she has little real power, as she's not married to the king, is merely his mother. This reluctance to give a woman power is the centre of her resentment of the system, that and the Tyrells and Faith Militant, who can use the system to their advantage with marriage and humiliation respectively, are encroaching upon her. So, how does she solve this? By blowing the Vatican the fuck up. And suddenly, the realm's problems with queen dowagers having any say over the kingdom is magically gone, all signs of what should have been a succession crisis is gone and Cersei wins. Another example is the notoriously sexist culture of the Dothraki magically being okay with being ruled, not just by a woman, not just a woman that wasn't born Dothraki, but a woman who'd just burned their holy place down. Or how about Dorne, who went from (apparently) a culture ruled by 'weak men' to one that was magically okay with backstabbing, kinslaying women taking over, because feminism. And that's not even going into how the universe seems to bend over backwards to make Arya Stark and Lyanna Mormont correct all of the time. So, if the universe isn't actually consistent in how it's depicting oppressive systems, if the 'realism' excuse isn't the reason for all of this violence and brutality, what's the real reason all this shit is depicted? Simple. Edginess. Because sex and rape and violence is 'cool' and that's what all the edgy, 'pushing the envelope' writers do. The defining example of this is Sansa's 'marriage strike' and subsequent rape by Ramsay Bolton. Not only did this not happen in the books, not only was there a better story there (Sansa learns from Littlefinger how to be a political player in the Vale), not only does it make no sense from any perspective (legitimise your enemy's claim to the North to take back the North!), not only does it result in a gratuitous rape scene that establishes... what, Ramsay Bolton likes rape (?), but it also... doesn't make sense from the perspective of there being a patriarchal system and patriarchal residents within. Let me explain; Littlefinger is a possessive, sexist man. Of this there is no doubt. Both in the books and in the show, he considers 'lost loves' largely replaceable, has a massive entitlement complex, and sells women against their wills willy-nilly. And what is it that Littlefinger likes about Sansa more than anything? She resembles a young Catelyn Tully, and she's his. Patriarchy's (slightly) positive side-effect is a man's protectiveness of their women, and Littlefinger just ain't letting Sansa go. That's why in the books he keeps her with him at all times in the Vale. So even if the show was interested in showing the dire effects of patriarchy, they could still do it by keeping her in the Vale. No, the true rationale behind Sansa's rape was, essentially, they need a recognisable actress for Ramsay to rape so they could set up their own lame rape revenge plotline. Not only that, but according to D&D, Sansa was not developed enough to be a kind person, she hadn't 'been through' enough to be a true hero. Arya was 'already there', but Sansa 'had to' go through some trauma. Why is Sansa the inferior sibling? Well, she didn't, at the time, kill people with a shit-eating smirk on her face. Now to get onto the pertinent issue: Do D&D hate femininity? This brings up your other point about men being defined as nothing but badasses. Yes, this is sexist too, and yes, it's sexist towards men, because whenever D&D bring up admirable traits in men, they almost always come down to how aggressive and violent they are. Jon is awesome because he charges into battle recklessly, Ramsay is 'more admirable than Joffrey... like... he fights...', Sam's a bigger and better person for buying into his father's philosophy that all maesters do is 'read about the works of better men'. This then extends to women and femininity... namely, they don't really like it all that much. Sansa is lame because she didn't have any rape revenge to go after, and only became good after leaving Ramsay to dogs while smirking, Arya is the most awesome grill ever because she kills with a shit-eating grin, Brienne now uses 'woman' as an insult while being degraded from a gentle, chivalrous being to a brutish transman, Lyanna Mormont is awesome for scoffing at very necessary feminine wartime roles like knitting socks, etc The list goes on and on. It's not the inclusion of inflammatory scenes, some of which involve violence against women, that make D&D sexist. It's their rationale, the feelings they're trying to get across: That being feminine is something women must shed to be awesome, that real men never forgo violence, that in order to be respected, women must act like stereotypical testosterone-poisoned men. And yeah, that's sexist against... pretty much everyone. And yes, it means on some level they hate femininity.
  2. Beardy the Wildling

    Targaryen Madness: What If We Have It All Wrong

    Oh God, who is this guy, and why is he spouting this weird stream of consciousness? Some advice for you, Mister Bombadil; even if you're just having a joke, keep it relevant to the topic at hand. This feels really out of left field. And what's this shit about Gaia and 'Order out of a controlled Chaos' and God's freaking will? I mean, this is truly bizarre, the kind of impromptu craziness that only comes around every now and then. It's genuine, though, and it's a delight to see a genuine crazy person amongst all the attention-seeking tryhards.
  3. Beardy the Wildling

    Do D&D hate feminity?

    Except murdering your brother-in-law/nephew magically makes a woman equal in status to a man in GoT's moronic 'world', and similarly blowing up the Vatican while smirking or burning down the only holy establishment a bunch of hyper-sexist barbarians have also makes you magically equal in status to a man in Weisseroff, despite the fact that Margaery was apparently going to have to do a walk of atonement for so much as having self-pride and being a woman (as well as not having enough child sex) and all of the gratuitous background rape/whorehouse scenes that are there because 'that's just the world, man, it's rough'. The patriarchy/religious dominance/Night's Watch Vows/literally any oppressive law/cultural nuance in Westeros is so subject to change depending on D&D's creative 'sense' (ie: What they want to happen) that all of this 'women on top' bullshit is nothing meaningful. I entirely mean it as an insult when I say the Wachowskis write more nuanced takes on resistance narratives. Catelyn Stark, both book and show, and Book!Sansa show what shrewd resistance within the system looks like, and guess what? It's not just hypermasculine, 'kill everybody because it's cool' bullshit, or getting raped to get revenge against the Boltons (wut?). The show has consistently failed at portraying femininity as anything other than a 'lame' thing that holds women back, and portrayed hypersexuality or hypermascuclinity as the only meaningful way to 'honourably' deal with a problem. You know what would be realistic, if Weisseroff was truly the awesome, consistent grimdark setting you seem to think it is? Arya would have been spotted during her dumb Frey pies schtick, and killed. Dornish guards would have seen Ellaria's usurping attempt and killed her, because it turns out they don't like the thought of a woman in power (never mind the whole 'kinslaying' thing, that seems to be in in Weisseroff). But nope; to D&D, female empowerment means letting women kill lots of people gratuitously or use their sexual wiles to manipulate men to kill lots of people gratuitously. They're not really a smart bunch; it seems they can only quantify a character's worth by how well they kill people. Incidentally, that seems to be your position, given you place so much emphasis on men being 'badass' too as justification for this toxic tripe.
  4. Beardy the Wildling

    Any two characters have a chat

    Come on, goldenmaps, stop living in the past, man! Live in the present moment, dude! It's not like what happened in Season 2 matters any more.
  5. Beardy the Wildling

    How good a swordsman is Jon actually?

    And as I said, if he comes back from the dead and the universe winds up bending 9001 different ways to serve Jon in the books, I'll happily put the books down, say it's jumped the shark, and give up on aSoIaF.
  6. Beardy the Wildling

    Any two characters have a chat

    The episode where Jon met Gendry was really eye-rolling too. Gendry magically starting to give a fuck about lineage and deciding that because Bobby B was his dad (his dad he never hinted at trying to imitate beforehand) and Sean Bean was Jon Snow's dad, they should automatically become bezzies. Heck, even Kit Harrington looks a little uncomfortable at Gendry's aggressive overtures of forced friendship, like even he can't hide how hideously unnatural it all is.
  7. Beardy the Wildling

    Targaryen Madness: What If We Have It All Wrong

    I didn't think this was GRRM's theme as much as D&D's, given they obviously ship Cersei and Jaime, as opposed to depicting it as an unhealthy relationship, and they depict Daenerys as a Mary Sue, as opposed to a possibly mad, possibly incompetent imposer into others' cultures, not to mention they really seemed to get off on boatsex, probably because aunt and nephew were both of age and hot. D&D put the 'in' in incest!
  8. Beardy the Wildling

    Targaryen Madness: What If We Have It All Wrong

    This is the thing a lot of people forget; the actual mechanics of how inbreeding increases genetic defects. There needs to be a genetic defect in the system already, inbreeding just increases the chances of pre-existing defects being expressed. Of course, one could argue Targ madness was in the line since Daenys the Dreamer, so their inbreeding likely did exacerbate this nature. Not to mention Cleopatra's lineage also contained the stunted, cleft-palated Tutankhamen. And most inbred royal lineages have some recurring genetic defect; haemophilia, porphyria, mental illness like dementia (likely alzheimer's), etc.
  9. Beardy the Wildling

    Why did nobody arm Wun-Wun for the Battle of the Bastards?

    Wun Wun himself requires cg already, that's why I was asking about the budgetary difference between Wun Wun alone and Wun Wun with a log.
  10. Beardy the Wildling

    Why did nobody arm Wun-Wun for the Battle of the Bastards?

    Now I'm curious; how much more does it cost to have a giant wielding a log compared to having the giant alone? Did the wight polar bear really break the bank that much?
  11. Several characters can be considered 'paragons' by D&D, the ones they obviously want us to root for and cheer for when they say a 'profound' swear-laden quip, or use 'woman' as an insult, or threaten to flay the face of their sister. There are also obvious 'anti-examples', which D&D hate and want us to boo for and celebrate when something unspeakably cruel happens to them. Naturally, with their attempts at cutting-edge religious commentary with the Faith Taliban, it can also be assumed D&D want us to have some moral takeaways from Game of Thrones. So, with this in mind, what was the best unintentional life lesson Game of Thrones taught us? Examples: Arya Stark: If you dress like a man and fight lots, you're perfectly justified in threatening your sister's life and resenting her for being traditionally feminine. Alternatively, if you go through PTSD, you'll be an absolute jerk to everyone you know and love, but will be cured for Ed Sheeran. Alternatively, if you get stabbed in the belly, definitely leap into scummy, disease-laden canals and consult your actress friend, as they'll know how to heal you. Lady Crane: Female physical abuse of men is funny and quirky, and will give you excellent medical skills when you inevitably have to cover up the evidence for the police! Stannis Baratheon: Don't sacrifice your daughter over the work of twenty good men. Alternatively, if you're the slightest bit uncharismatic, fuck off and die because nobody likes you. Ramsay Bolton: Flaying, murdering, kinslaying and rape is cool as long as you fight (ala D&D's notes on him compared to Joffrey: Ramsay's kind of admirable compared to Joffrey...... like, he fights...) and will earn you lots of political friends like the Umbers and Karstarks. Alternatively: Never have sound battle strategy. Always send as few men as possible to do a job, and fight shirtless, because if you exhibit a competent battle strategy, you'll be beaten by Jon Snow. Bran Stark: Don't ever have a story arc that doesn't involve waving your sword around a lot, because you'll get mind-raped into being glorified CCTV. Tyrion Lannister: Be a dwarf niceguy, and all the women will be all over you, you'll always be right, anyone who disagrees with you will be evil, and you'll be the most moral man on the planet. Petyr Baelish: Don't be a fucking moron and hang around Winterfell's various walls smirking when you have a jetpack and everyone wants to kill you. Brienne of Tarth: Empowered women use 'woman' as an insult, never identify with their femininity at all, fight and swear a lot, and act like brutes. Essentially, to be a strong woman, just be a toxic, hypermasculine trans man. Ellaria Sand: Alternatively, a woman can be empowered by killing men for not being the embodiment of toxic masculinity and being sexy. Also, the best way to avenge your lover is by murdering their entire family. Jaime Lannister: Stick with family through atrocities such as blowing up the Vatican, through every indication they're a terrible person, until they bring up decent points about your political enemies and choose not to take part in a deal that obviously fucks them over in the long run. That's when it's a bridge too far. Tommen Baratheon: If you have any trouble deciding what to do as a young teen in a position of power, you're a weak little shit who should kill himself. Margaery Tyrell: In a crisis, you'll likely gain psychic powers and predict things like massive explosions, but no-one will believe you. Alternatively, if you're a hot woman, sexually manipulating a male child is funny and quirky, and a positive form of manipulation, as opposed to EEEEEVIL Cersei. Loras Tyrell: If you're gay, it doesn't matter if you're a decorated knight or a renowned fighter, you're ultimately only ever going to be defined by your sexuality. Also, if you're gay, you don't mourn your previous lovers, because all gays are promiscuous. Finally, if you're gay, you exist only to be a victim of homophobia. Septon Ray: Never be pacifistic, ever, because the world's shit and real men fight. Samwell Tarly: Real men don't research problems before they solve them, and they don't learn how to study in institutes. They buy into the same toxic machismo as their fathers and endanger their loved ones for the sake of manliness. Tormund 'Beardy' Giantsbane: If someone calls you gay, you should beat them to death. This will earn you respect and recognition as completely secure in your sexuality. Cersei Lannister: If you blow up the Vatican or allow your youngest son's suicide to take place because you're busy torturing a nun, the citizens and your brother-lover will not bat an eye. In fact, openly have sex with your brother, because nobody has a problem with brother-sister incest any more. Walk around with an obviously undead bodyguard and ally yourself with a known pirate, the people will only love you more! But NEVER try to scheme against the mary sue of the day for basic self-preservation, because that's a bridge too far, and will cause your closest allies to abandon you. Sandor Clegane: Never try to be peaceful, because REAL MEN kill for revenge and take boots from still-twitching hangmen. They also make rehashed chicken meme jokes. Lyanna Mormont: Socks and food aren't necessary in wartime, and such provisions serve only to undermine women, rather than actually being necessary for warfare. Weisseroff in General: The world is a shit, shit place, and you should feel bad, and if you ever get attached to anyone or emotionally invested, it's a trick. Also, the rules of the world are liable to flip upside down at a moment's notice at the whims of the powers that be. Also, if you want something to happen when writing a fiction, just make it happen without any thought, as it will automatically make creative sense. Can you guys think of any others?
  12. Beardy the Wildling

    Why did nobody arm Wun-Wun for the Battle of the Bastards?

    Except he used a log in Hardhome, Angel Eyes literally mentioned a time Wun Wun used a weapon.
  13. Beardy the Wildling

    Any two characters have a chat

    Bran: He loved him, and he loved him. Ghost's rebellion was based on a lie.
  14. Beardy the Wildling

    Any two characters have a chat

    Hodor: Hodor Aerys: BURN THEM ALL Hodor: Hodor Aerys: BURN THEM ALL! Hodor: Hodor? Aerys: BURN THEM ALL! Meanwhile, D&D receive best writing for the 2019 emmies.
  15. Beardy the Wildling

    What was the best unintentional lesson learned from Game of Thrones?

    I kinda feel bad for only exacerbating the off-topic posts. I really am an argumentative blighter, aren't I?
  16. Beardy the Wildling

    Why did nobody arm Wun-Wun for the Battle of the Bastards?

    Jon was so preoccupied with fighting with the army he had that he forgot to provision his army. This disdain for provisions is why Lyanna Mormont suggested crowning him King of the North afterwards; she hates knitting and socks too. As far as she sees it, if you can't fight without provisions, you're not a real person.
  17. Beardy the Wildling

    How good a swordsman is Jon actually?

    Aside from his warging, no, I'd say the show's been more favourable. Because implausible writing to favour the survival of a character isn't a DBZ/RPG-like list of powers, but instead how the universe reacts to a character's actions. Jon gets stabbed to death by randomly xenophobic assholes? Melisandre brings him back from the grave, and unlike Beric, this has zero effect on his personality other than a few other characters saying 'he's kind of broody' (protip: If you're using random characters as mouthpieces to desperately indicate a character has trait X, you're doing a bad job of showing trait X). Jon uses his authority as Lord Commander to execute his killers in blatant personal revenge, then conveniently remembers the Night's Watch loophole and claims his watch has ended, then has the gall to claim he's just going to 'get warm' to Edd? No-one bats an eye at this, nor at the fact there's a literal zombie walking around unchecked during a zombie apocalypse (the only one to note this is Edd, once, and it's dropped immediately). Jon makes the moronic decision not to wait for the Cerwyns or accept Sansa's vale help? He 'fights with the army he has', but thankfully, Sansa helped him out anyway, making sure he never suffers consequences. Jon Snow charges into Ramsay Bolton's immaculate trap? He survives due to fate favouring him as being one of the ones that held out until the Vale knights came, despite all the ways he could have got himself killed. Not only that, but despite being the one that nearly got them all killed, and Sansa being the one to save them all, the Northern Lords reward Jon's stupidity by crowning him King in the North. Jon Snow leads an idiotic quest beyond the wall? A dragon dies, but not Jonny Boy (it should also be noted that all but Thoros in the wight hunt had egregious plot armour, given how wights were once hard to kill). Daenerys tries to pick him up, and Jonny makes the idiotic decision to keep fighting, and thus ends up falling into freezing water? Jonny Boy is immune to hypothermia (despite there being no foreshadowing for this mysterious power, unlike, say, his warging in the books) A cold, somehow not hypothermic Jon is surrounded by previously-established-to-be-hard-to-kill zombies? The universe itself bends to his will and it just so happens Benjen-ex-Machina is there. Jon fucks up diplomatic negotiations with a woman not above blowing up her political and religious enemies in a fire and having her undead slave rape a septa? He's somehow not killed on the spot by this ruthless villain (at least this is justified by Drogon being around). So while Book!Jon may have more magical powers, there are plenty of characters in aSoIaF that have magical powers, good and evil (magic is just more common in the bookverse). Euron, an absolute monster, has magic in the books. Victarion, neutral at best, has been bestowed magic. Pyat Pree and his warlocks show that mages in aSoIaF aren't nearly as powerful as one would think, as they were both defeated by Daenerys and enslaved by Euron. What makes the show 'cheat for Jon' isn't what the scouter says about his power level. It's about how many times the universe bails him out of his bad decisions; while Jon has been lucky from time to time in the books, he's never been this consistently rewarded for being a blithering idiot (which, incidentally, he isn't in the books).
  18. Beardy the Wildling

    This is how I would've fixed the Ice and Fire meeting

    Alas, it's not characterisation when another character blatantly says 'Character X sure has this trait, doesn't he?' That's telling, not showing, and clunky telling at that.
  19. Beardy the Wildling

    This is how I would've fixed the Ice and Fire meeting

    This, a thousand times. Bran's the 'three eyed raven' now, and he was sent dreams by the last one, so why can't he send out some mental emails himself? Lol. Bran is now Denny from the Room. Bran: I just like to watch you guys.
  20. Beardy the Wildling

    How good a swordsman is Jon actually?

    These are all fortuitous, admittedly, but semi-plausible within the rules of the universe established. Valyrian super steel is used by all factions, regardless of morality (one of its first uses in-story was by a catspaw trying to kill Bran), and Arya helped out a faceless man before and demonstrated quick wit and a tendency to disguise herself while in front of said faceless man. It makes sense she'd be considered as a candidate. I always got the feeling the Faceless Men started their initiations young, what with needing to brainwash the fuck out of them. As for Bran and his warg powers... yes, I'll admit, this does smack of supar-dupar-chosen-one BS. And if Jon's resurrection in the books is as no-strings-attached as it was in the show, I'll put Winds of Winter the fuck down and admit it's jumped the shark. However, at least with the former, I think we're heading into deconstruction territory; Bran is so important, so magical, yet is also a young child who may as well just be a hyper-powerful pawn in some endgame the mysterious three-eyed-crow isn't saying. Certainly feels like Bran's purpose is headed towards a dark twist rather than the magical heroics route. So while there are facets of tired tropes in the books, for the most part they work to subvert, deconstruct, or twist them in some fashion. But as I said, if Jon comes back and becomes a supar-dupar-undead hero, then fuck it. GRRM's just as terrible at writing as D&D, just a better worldbuilder.
  21. Beardy the Wildling

    Any two characters have a chat

    Jon Snow and Daenery- oh, that one turned out a lot more tepid than we all imagined. Sansa and Arya post-character devel- oh, no, that one turned out a little stilted too. Seriously, though, Jorah Mormont and Jeor Mormont. I imagine they'd have a lot of shit to work through (plus, Jorah's minor character status has left him relatively unbutchered, and Jeor Mormont was mercifully dead by Season 5, so they wouldn't just be trading catchphrases for t-shirts and mugs)
  22. Beardy the Wildling

    Do D&D hate feminity?

    Not the point. My point is, rapesploitation is rapesploitation, regardless of if you switch guns for swords and hitmen for armies. I wasn't saying typical heroic fantasy couldn't be successful, especially when, like in the case of Star Wars, it never claims to be much else. Now this is a good point. As mentioned above, things like Star Wars aren't intending to be much beyond regular fantasy. But on some level, I do believe romantic comedies are intending to portray their content as... well, romantic. Hence the name. Yes, it's a comedy, and yes, things are going to be exaggerated/skew from reality, but if they are, it's generally to serve a joke. Where's the joke in 'harassing the object of your affections will result in true love'? Charitably, there's the absurdity, but that's about it. And not only that, but when you hear the swelling music or the soft piano that plays when they finally get together, one can hardly say it's intended to be anything other than romantic. Now we're getting onto Game of Thrones. Are D&D trying to get messages across? I'd say, despite their schlocky material... yes. That's why they shoehorned homophobia into the Faith Militant plotline, that's why they felt like they had to do that moronic, patronising 'women on top' initiative in Season 6. D&D have ideas that they wanna express, good ones and bad ones. As I said, given their childish understanding of feminism, I think they genuinely think magically turning every woman they want to be 'strong' into either a hypermasculine killing machine or a sexually manipulative vamp (or both) is their way of telling the world they're not sexist. It's just, in doing so they unintentionally prove they're anything but, and all it did was piss off anti-SJWs (who rightly called out its pandering to the worst aspects of feminism) and reasonable feminists (who pointed out how disdainful of conventional femininity it was).
  23. Beardy the Wildling

    How good a swordsman is Jon actually?

    I know he obviously never intended for boatsex, but if he wanted to mine Dragonglass, he could have brought... well, way more than five people. While he's survived ranging past the wall, so has: Dolorous Edd, Sam Tarly, Pipp, Grenn (the list goes on). While it's dangerous, it's not suicidal. Including S6's Battle of the Bastards, almost everything Jon Snow has done has been either physical or political suicide. Why not send an envoy? Literally everyone, even in-universe, was screaming at him. I think the showrunners are going for 'dumb is good' with Jon Snow, ignoring the fact that one of the things Jon Snow was learning before contracting a deadly case of knife-in-gut was shrewd political negotiations... and chiefly, it was when Jon decided 'fuck it, I'm going to prioritise my emotions over my duty' that Bowen Marsh and the likes turned on him (instead of Alliser 'I really hate wildlings so I'll let them through the wall then stab Jon Snow' Thorne stabbing Jon because... Olly's village got sacked, or something). Of course, Jon Snow has got a few free passes in the books, and at times they were... suspiciously fortuitous. However, it's never reached the levels of 'rewarding a character for abysmal stupidity' as Jon's been receiving as of late. There's irritating, but tolerable, and outright egregious. As I put it in another thread: In the books, the writer doesn't cheat to make the good guys win. In the show, the writers cheat to make the bad guys win, unless it's Jon Snow, in which case they cheat to make Jon win. I think this is a major gripe I have with the show. Okay, poor decisions in earlier seasons (like never establishing Jon Snow is improving at politics) will force the writers into a hole and thus they have to make him a blithering idiot, but there are some cases, like the big gay wight polar bear or Jon choosing to not climb on Drogon so deus-ex-Benjen can come in and save him, that I have to wonder. Are D&D deliberately going with the worst possible option to troll viewers? To see how much stupid shit they can get away with before people cotton on? I mean, most people have only just started to cotton on after the wight hunt that maybe the writing in the show has slipped, despite people like me seeing a decline as early as Season 5.
  24. Beardy the Wildling

    Season 8 Predictions?

    True. I honestly think one of the biggest reasons D&D have just plain stopped giving a fuck is the pressure of churning out the writing in way less than a year without book material.
  25. Beardy the Wildling

    Do D&D hate feminity?

    Except sexual coersion and acting like no means yes, niceguyism, all that shit, that's endorsed all over Hollywood, no doubt because scumbags have their own... spin on morality and whether intentionally or not, let it bleed out into their works. As I gave an example of before with Woody Allen. You can also see it with cookie-cutter romantic comedies in general. What's the general take one gets from the typical 'loser loves a girl, girl is with other guy, loser persists, the girl leaves her man (who has been exposed as boring/evil) for the loser, happily ever after'? Well, it implies that persistence gets you the girl, and that the only reason a woman might reject you is because she's with some man who is obviously inferior, and if you continue to undermine her agency to, you know, pick her own damn partners, you'll be rewarded with a happily ever after.
×